[DETRoadster]

So a guy in a flatbed truck hauling cement blocks decided it was more important to answer a text than keep his eyes on the road. He ran into my M2 and pushed me into the car in front. I'm working with a great body shop that is BMW factory certified. They refuse to use aftermarket parts. The insurance company for the concrete company truck that hit me (Liberty Mutual) is refusing to pay for OEM bumpers and bumper supports, stating that the China sourced parts are "industry standard" and "meet FMVSS" standards. They are only obligated to pay for that and not obligated to pay for OEM parts. We've had a few rounds of back and forth and LIMU is now saying "This is all we can do, you are welcome to take it up with YOUR insurance and have them bill us."

Anyone been in this situation before and have any recommendations or wisdom?

[infinitekidM2C]

Well at the very least they should pay for the cost of the aftermarket parts. I mean the difference with OEM can't be that big which you might end up paying. But that's your fall back. Your demand is OEM period. I'd probably get your insurance involved and see what they say. That's the cheapest route right now. After that report back.

[spazzyfry123]

My policy has OEM replacement and the at fault didn’t. Ultimately had to go through my insurance to get it done right, but then the car ended up getting totaled (which is what I wanted as I didn’t want it back after the extent of damage).

I will say that my insurance was starting to give me the runaround, too. I ultimately had to get a lawyer unfortunately. Let me put it this way, the accident was August 2018 and it is still open...

[Deep_Blue]

disclaimer: Not a lawyer, but have been in this situation.

You need a diminished value appraiser that works with a good attorney.
You're ultimately running up against the quality of/limits of the insured/at fault's policy. If he paid for a policy that will only use cheap aftermarket parts, that's not your problem. You may have to sue him for the difference and don't forget to file a diminished value claim as well.

[infinitekidM2C]

Originally Posted by Deep_Blue

disclaimer: Not a lawyer, but have been in this situation.

You need a diminished value appraiser that works with a good attorney.
You're ultimately running up against the quality of/limits of the insured/at fault's policy. If he paid for a policy that will only use cheap aftermarket parts, that's not your problem. You may have to sue him for the difference and don't forget to file a diminished value claim as well.

This is correct. I mean i hope it doesn't come to you going after the insured because that's expensive and might not be worth it in the end. Only thing i'll say is to exhaust your insurance and LIM's patience before you start going this route with an appraiser as it's some coin on your end and you should be putting nothing into this really.

[DETRoadster]

Thanks for the feedback, guys! Aftermarket parts are not going on my car, period. End of story. The difference in OEM and AM is only $350. I'm burning through that every week on the rental car, I'll bet. I pointed this out to LIMU and they dont seem to care. In the background, I already gave my shop the OK to buy the OEM and said I'll make up the difference out of pocket if need be.

Already have the diminished value appraiser lined up!

Sounds like getting USAA (my insurance) involved is next. LIMU is offering me $1k to settle the medical portion (3 trips to the chiropractor and a massage) so I can always dip into that to cover the $350 out of pocket if necessary.

At this point it's way more about the principle than the actual $350.

[CTinline-six]

I've been in many of these types of situations as a former claims adjuster.

Unfortunately, they are correct. Insurance companies and the weasels that they are have found a way to make it so that they don't have to replace damaged parts with OEM parts, only that they have to "make you whole". Making you whole with new Chinese parts or used OEM parts is considered fair, and that replacing with new OEM parts would be more than fair in their mind.

With that said, DO NOT go through your own company. If they are unwilling to pay for new OEM parts, going through your own company and having them bill Liberty will likely just end up with Liberty agreeing to pay a portion of the bill (the cost for China parts) and leaving your company on the hook for the rest, which they will likely just send to you.

Your best course of action is to attempt to have the company source good used OEM parts. If these are unavailable (not many M2s in the junkyard yet I assume) you can argue that new OEM parts are all that you are willing to accept due to diminished value on your vehicle from using China parts because of the fault of their insured and no fault of your own. Speaking to only the claims dept manager (and refusing to speak to anyone lower) and also mentioning you have a lawyer on standby will help your situation. Whenever I dealt with a claim and the other party who was hurt by our own insured mentioned they had a lawyer, it was usually escalated to someone of higher authority and "taken care of". Insurance companies will usually attempt to get away with the cheapest parts they can. Your results may vary since every company and situation is different. You have the upper hand assuming you were parked and hit from behind, the other party admitted fault, and you aren't in a "no fault state". I know in CT if someone rear-ends you, they are 100% at fault.

[infinitekidM2C]

Originally Posted by CTinline-six

I've been in many of these types of situations as a former claims adjuster.

Unfortunately, they are correct. Insurance companies and the weasels that they are have found a way to make it so that they don't have to replace damaged parts with OEM parts, only that they have to "make you whole". Making you whole with new Chinese parts or used OEM parts is considered fair, and that replacing with new OEM parts would be more than fair in their mind.

With that said, DO NOT go through your own company. If they are unwilling to pay for new OEM parts, going through your own company and having them bill Liberty will likely just end up with Liberty agreeing to pay a portion of the bill (the cost for China parts) and leaving your company on the hook for the rest, which they will likely just send to you.

Your best course of action is to attempt to have the company source good used OEM parts. If these are unavailable (not many M2s in the junkyard yet I assume) you can argue that new OEM parts are all that you are willing to accept due to diminished value on your vehicle from using China parts because of the fault of their insured and no fault of your own. Speaking to only the claims dept manager (and refusing to speak to anyone lower) and also mentioning you have a lawyer on standby will help your situation. Whenever I dealt with a claim and the other party who was hurt by our own insured mentioned they had a lawyer, it was usually escalated to someone of higher authority and "taken care of". Insurance companies will usually attempt to get away with the cheapest parts they can. Your results may vary since every company and situation is different. You have the upper hand assuming you were parked and hit from behind, the other party admitted fault, and you aren't in a "no fault state". I know in CT if someone rear-ends you, they are 100% at fault.

You were a claims adjuster so this is your show. But having them source used OEM parts? You don't think LIM will fold later?

[CTinline-six]

Originally Posted by infinitekidM2C

You were a claims adjuster so this is your show. But having them source used OEM parts? You don't think LIM will fold later?

It depends how much money is at stake for them (IE: the repair cost of the M2 and any medical bills). Anything is possible through careful negotiation, but it is about how far you want to take things. If the OP only wants to use brand new OEM parts, he will likely need a lawyer and have his lawyer go after Liberty, who has very expensive lawyers on stand by. The only thing working in his favor is that their insured is 100% at fault. If he was even 5% at fault, all bets would be off. Used OEM parts would be a lot easier to get them to agree to over new OEM parts is all I'm saying.

Insurance companies make billions in profit every year due to their business models being structured around eliminating risk, and through only paying out what they absolutely have to.

This is another reason why I say to only go through your own insurance as a last resort. Any time you need to go through your own insurance for ANYTHING (like just reporting a claim, or as Liberty suggested using them for the subrogation process to go after the other company for the OEM parts cost) the insurance company sees you as an increased risk to having to pay out money, even if you aren't at fault (this time) and your premiums will magically increase even if not right away. This data also goes into a large database shared by all the insurance companies, so changing to another company after making a claim will still carry-over this claim data to them.

[DETRoadster]

Originally Posted by CTinline-six

It depends how much money is at stake for them (IE: the repair cost of the M2 and any medical bills). Anything is possible through careful negotiation, but it is about how far you want to take things. If the OP only wants to use brand new OEM parts, he will likely need a lawyer and have his lawyer go after Liberty, who has very expensive lawyers on stand by. The only thing working in his favor is that their insured is 100% at fault. If he was even 5% at fault, all bets would be off. Used OEM parts would be a lot easier to get them to agree to over new OEM parts is all I'm saying.

Insurance companies make billions in profit every year due to their business models being structured around eliminating risk, and through only paying out what they absolutely have to.

This is another reason why I say to only go through your own insurance as a last resort. Any time you need to go through your own insurance for ANYTHING (like just reporting a claim, or as Liberty suggested using them for the subrogation process to go after the other company for the OEM parts cost) the insurance company sees you as an increased risk to having to pay out money, even if you aren't at fault (this time) and your premiums will magically increase even if not right away. This data also goes into a large database shared by all the insurance companies, so changing to another company after making a claim will still carry-over this claim data to them.

Thanks for the tips! Yeah, it's a $350 difference and doesn't seem worth the risk of making me seem like a bigger liability to my insurance company.

I was going to start making noise about having a lawyer at the ready and "The loss of value to the repaired car by using non OEM bumpers and supports..." to try to get them to back off thinking that maybe I wont go after them for diminished value if they just step up and cover the OEM parts.

I've asked to work with the adjusters supervisor but so far he's just ignoring that.

[smyles]

Contrary to the above, in this case I suggest going thru your insurance and fixing the car to your satisfaction (if they allow new OEM parts, etc.).

Let your ins.co deal with subrogation, etc. - in the end, you're paying them $$$ in premiums, once in a while they should actually provide service to you. And I doubt it will raise your rates, if your accident description matches the police report.

P.S. Your ins.co will likely get involved anyway if there's a damage to the car you got pushed into.

[CTinline-six]

Originally Posted by smyles

Contrary to the above, in this case I suggest going thru your insurance and fixing the car to your satisfaction (if they allow new OEM parts, etc.).

Let your ins.co deal with subrogation, etc. - in the end, you're paying them $$$ in premiums, once in a while they should actually provide service to you. And I doubt it will raise your rates, if your accident description matches the police report.

P.S. Your ins.co will likely get involved anyway if there's a damage to the car you got pushed into.

Not correct. Even though you are paying them money and I agree with you on they should be helping you out in theory, that isn't how their business works and they couldn't give a shit about helping you out. Your rates WILL increase. Even if you go through your own company, SOMEONE has to pay the difference between the China parts and the OEM parts. If the other company won't pay and you go through your own company, the person paying for them will be you. Also if you got pushed into another car from the impact, the front car would still go through the last (impact initiating) car if you were stopped.

[CTinline-six]

Originally Posted by DETRoadster

Thanks for the tips! Yeah, it's a $350 difference and doesn't seem worth the risk of making me seem like a bigger liability to my insurance company.

I was going to start making noise about having a lawyer at the ready and "The loss of value to the repaired car by using non OEM bumpers and supports..." to try to get them to back off thinking that maybe I wont go after them for diminished value if they just step up and cover the OEM parts.

I've asked to work with the adjusters supervisor but so far he's just ignoring that.

He can ignore you all he wants, but they can't close the claim until a settlement is reached if you keep contacting them every day.

Document everything, and calmly insist you want to speak to the supervisor. If they don't allow it, tell them your lawyer will be the next person on the other end of the line. Claims adjusters must track every single interaction in the claim file per company policy for legal reasons. If days go by and every single note in the claim file made by the adjuster is "spoke with claimant" but no progress is made, the supervisor will be forced to look into it anyway and the adjuster will start to look bad as their unresolved claims number starts building up.

[smyles]

Originally Posted by CTinline-six

I've been in many of these types of situations as a former claims adjuster...

Have you dealt with subrogation? Arbitration? Litigation? What was your limit?

Just trying to understand the extend of your expertise.

[CTinline-six]

Originally Posted by smyles

Have you dealt with subrogation? Arbitration? Litigation? What was your limit?

Just trying to understand the extend of your expertise.

I handled APD (auto physical damage) and later BI (bodily injury claims). I dealt with subrogation and arbitration for both APD and BI, but we had a separate division that handled anything dealing with litigation (separate branch office entirely). I dealt with smaller commercial claims in the 500k limit range, and APD/BI claims in a similar range. Most APD/BI claims with a limit higher than that seemed to have lawyers involved anyway (usually due to medical) and went to litigation. It was interesting for sure (always a good story dealing with the public) but I definitely do not miss working there. Lots of company politics and insurance as a whole is not a fun industry to be in.


Also to your above post you are right about accidents matching police reports, but I often did not waste time waiting for those on smaller claims if there was better evidence (like a dash cam). Even if requesting a police report, sometimes it would take up to 3 months, and then I get a photocopy of basically what some idiot drew on a post-it note with a description of "two cars collided on Route 9". You'd be surprised how many people get into an accident and never even contact the police, especially if it's only physical damage. I am thankful to those officers who did go through the effort of making a very detailed report, as it did make quite the difference and save some people's asses.

[smyles]

I then curious re this:

Originally Posted by CTinline-six

...Also if you got pushed into another car from the impact, the front car would still go through the last (impact initiating) car if you were stopped..

If I was the front car, I couldn't care less re circumstances beyond the car behind me that ended in my bumper. I mean, yeah I get that you got pushed or whatever, but it's you who pushed my car. Hence your insurance gets involved (doesn't mean gets to pay!), so the notion of not informing your insurance about the accident for the fear of rate increase is moot.

[CTinline-six]

Originally Posted by smyles

I then curious re this:



If I was the front car, I couldn't care less re circumstances beyond the car behind me that ended in my bumper. I mean, yeah I get that you got pushed or whatever, but it's you who pushed my car. Hence your insurance gets involved (doesn't mean gets to pay!), so the notion of not informing your insurance about the accident for the fear of rate increase is moot.

I'm not really sure what you are trying to argue. You could get everyone's insurance involved if you want to and call every single agent that works for each company, it doesn't matter. What's likely going to happen is if the middle car was stopped and got rammed by the last car, the middle car's insurance will claim they are not liable anyway due to the impact being caused by the other car. I've been on calls with 4-5 different companies at a time so they can hash out who takes most of the responsibility. The bottom line is read YOUR policy so you know what YOU have to do. Every company handles things differently. There is also the case of if the front car feels 1 or 2 impacts and discusses it in a recorded statement that can change the liability also. You can get really thick in the weeds with this stuff depending on witnesses, cameras, and other evidence present at the scene. I've had claims where people got completely screwed just because video evidence showed they failed to act in a manner that would avoid an accident according to the insuring company.

[Nuckle]

I would be very tempted in contacting a personal attorney at this point even if it was a 1/3 of settlement type just to see what they had to say. The diminished value will be $5k in my opinion. I would not sign a medical release until I was satisfied on everything. I would also not settle on anything but genuine BMW parts on an M car.

[smyles]

I'm arguing that in the end it's worth going through your own insurance; it saves time, hassle and, if not at fault, most likely won't cost anything other than few months that would take to get your deductible back.

[DETRoadster]

Originally Posted by smyles

If I was the front car, I couldn't care less re circumstances beyond the car behind me that ended in my bumper. I mean, yeah I get that you got pushed or whatever, but it's you who pushed my car. Hence your insurance gets involved (doesn't mean gets to pay!), so the notion of not informing your insurance about the accident for the fear of rate increase is moot.

That's certainly how to fat trashy chick in the car in front of me felt. She came flying out of her car screaming obscenities and damn near ran into traffic to get to me. She was so heated she failed to see the Ford F550 flatbed loaded up with about 5,000 pounds of concrete blocks, trying to drive into my back seat. I just pointed to the driver of the flatbed and said "Take it up with him." LOL.

In the end there was little to no damage to her car. It was so trashed anyway it was impossible to tell if there was any new damage from the impact.

[zx10guy]

Find another body shop.

The body shop I use exclusively works with all the major insurance companies. They know how to work within the system. My ex wife's car was involved in a wreck where she was not at fault. The at fault person's insurance was I think a subsidiary of Liberty Mutual as I seem to recall the truck that caused the wreck was a work truck.

From what I recall, my shop was able to get all OEM parts.

I had to get body work done on my 135i after a deer strike through my insurance with State Farm. They were able to get all OEM parts on this too with the exception of the condenser coil which was aftermarket. I was ok with that.

ETA: Oh and the Liberty Mutual rep started off with the same line about aftermarket/used parts were acceptable to repair my ex-wife's vehicle. I mentioned this to my body shop and they said no worries...they'll take care of it. And sure enough they did. To the tune of getting a whole new rear hatch to replace the damaged one because they couldn't get the fitment correct. A good body shop is worth their weight in gold. There's no coincidence there was a Bentley being repaired at their shop to fix the current damage and repair work that was half assed by another repair shop.

[DETRoadster]

Originally Posted by zx10guy

Find another body shop.

The body shop I use exclusively works with all the major insurance companies. They know how to work within the system. My ex wife's car was involved in a wreck where she was not at fault. The at fault person's insurance was I think a subsidiary of Liberty Mutual as I seem to recall the truck that caused the wreck was a work truck.

From what I recall, my shop was able to get all OEM parts.

I had to get body work done on my 135i after a deer strike through my insurance with State Farm. They were able to get all OEM parts on this too with the exception of the condenser coil which was aftermarket. I was ok with that.

ETA: Oh and the Liberty Mutual rep started off with the same line about aftermarket/used parts were acceptable to repair my ex-wife's vehicle. I mentioned this to my body shop and they said no worries...they'll take care of it. And sure enough they did. To the tune of getting a whole new rear hatch to replace the damaged one because they couldn't get the fitment correct. A good body shop is worth their weight in gold. There's no coincidence there was a Bentley being repaired at their shop to fix the current damage and repair work that was half assed by another repair shop.

There's only 2 factory certified BMW repair shops in Seattle and my car is in pieces at one of them. Pulling out now is not really an option. i trust the body shop. They have kept me cc'd on all correspondence with LIMU and the guy is extremely direct. Pulls no punches. The problem is that LIMU is not obligated to pay for OEM parts and after calling my insurance about subrogation I've learned that neither are they, if the vehicle is more than 2 years old. The hope was that I'd be a big enough bother that they'd just sign off on the $317 difference in OEM vs. non OEM parts but they arent budging. So it's looking like I'll have to suck it up and pay that difference, then try to collect on the back end through a diminished value claim.