[dyllan12]

I bought this tial bov 50mm off ebay , and it came with 6psi spring and 18 psi .. i feel like the 6psi making me lose boost due to being to light and the 18 psi make a flutter sound as in it really not opening up , I'm not sure i'm going base off sound ...


I'm FBO stage 2 lpfp about to MHD tune it with e50
(NOT TUNED YET)
I read some people go with 10-11 psi spring , I was wondering if i could just buy a 10-11 tial bov spring off of ebay and would work same way?

[Rule1977]

You can buy a 10-11lb spring. I'm assuming it's a knock off Tial with those springs?

[ewicky]

Remember that the BOV is moved by a pressure differential, and when you close the throttle, the manifold will be a pretty strong vacuum. For example, if your manifold is -13 PSI and your turbos are pushing 17 PSI, that's 30 PSI. Plenty to overcome the spring. Even the strong spring will stay open until the air charge gets down to 5 PSI (the difference of -13 and 5 is the 18 PSI spring rating). And 5 PSI air charge is fine and will bleed off on its own quickly, even with a closed throttle and open wastegates.

Make sure you are using a large diameter and short as possible vacuum line to the manifold to trigger the BOV. Don't adapt it down to the stock tiny vacuum line. Tap your own hole and put a large barb in. The displacement of the manifold side of the BOV actuator is much larger than stock so for immediate response, it needs better vacuum flow.

[dyllan12]

Originally Posted by Rule1977

You can buy a 10-11lb spring. I'm assuming it's a knock off Tial with those springs?

yea knockoff 😁

[dyllan12]

Originally Posted by ewicky

Remember that the BOV is moved by a pressure differential, and when you close the throttle, the manifold will be a pretty strong vacuum. For example, if your manifold is -13 PSI and your turbos are pushing 17 PSI, that's 30 PSI. Plenty to overcome the spring. Even the strong spring will stay open until the air charge gets down to 5 PSI (the difference of -13 and 5 is the 18 PSI spring rating). And 5 PSI air charge is fine and will bleed off on its own quickly, even with a closed throttle and open wastegates.

Make sure you are using a large diameter and short as possible vacuum line to the manifold to trigger the BOV. Don't adapt it down to the stock tiny vacuum line. Tap your own hole and put a large barb in. The displacement of the manifold side of the BOV actuator is much larger than stock so for immediate response, it needs better vacuum flow.

makes so much sense

[cgbimmer]

go to lowes look for big flat washers and install under the 6 lb spring I would start with 2 washers and go from there..ideally after you car warms up look at bov it should be just a smidge open .. some like it closed think dirt will get in but it wont

[Boosted12a]

Originally Posted by cgbimmer

.. some like it closed think dirt will get in but it wont

So,.you run with no air filter?

[Chris@VargasTurboTech]

Tial should have the black spring in, open or partly open is normal and desired during idle. You don't lose boost due to running a lighter spring. That sound you heard with the 18psi spring is compressor surge, which is one of the fastest ways to wear out a turbo.

[Torgus]

If your BOV is open at idle or off boost while driving it is sucking in unfiltered air, sand, debris, etc. Period. Not open for discussion.

You should be able to choose the correct spring or shim the spring so it is just barely closed at idle, this is ideal.

Most likely it being open at idle/off boost is not a that big of an issue but there is no reason you should have to suck in unfiltered air at idle/off boost for your car the run properly and not experience surge.

This is especially important if you live in a dusty or sandy environment. I would assume we have all seen how dirty and engine bay can get in a relatively clean environment. There is a reason why filtered air is prefered and no OEM would allow unfiltered air into the intake tract.

This is simply the best practice. Just like changing your oil at 3-5k on synthetic, etc. Run it open if you want. There is no reason you should have to for the car and BOV to perform correctly.

Edit: as said above upgrade your vac line from intake manifold to BOV to the correct size and have your line be as short as reasonably possible. With the right spring or shims you should be closed at idle and it should function 100% correctly.

[cgbimmer]

Originally Posted by Boosted12a

So,.you run with no air filter?

yes I have no filter.. went back and forth springs shims .. I have stage 2 turbos with 1/4 vacuum line taped in.. when I say smidge its about a 1/16 open when idling.

[Riceball777]

Originally Posted by Torgus

If your BOV is open at idle or off boost while driving it is sucking in unfiltered air, sand, debris, etc. Period. Not open for discussion.

You should be able to choose the correct spring or shim the spring so it is just barely closed at idle, this is ideal.

Most likely it being open at idle/off boost is not a that big of an issue but there is no reason you should have to suck in unfiltered air at idle/off boost for your car the run properly and not experience surge.

This is especially important if you live in a dusty or sandy environment. I would assume we have all seen how dirty and engine bay can get in a relatively clean environment. There is a reason why filtered air is prefered and no OEM would allow unfiltered air into the intake tract.

This is simply the best practice. Just like changing your oil at 3-5k on synthetic, etc. Run it open if you want. There is no reason you should have to for the car and BOV to perform correctly.

Edit: as said above upgrade your vac line from intake manifold to BOV to the correct size and have your line be as short as reasonably possible. With the right spring or shims you should be closed at idle and it should function 100% correctly.

i have personally spoke to the techs that work at tial and the bov is suppose to be open at idle

[Torgus]

If your BOV is open at idle, on an n54, put your hand next to it. You should feel air(and everything else that comes with it) being sucked in.

It is not just at idle when there is no airflow in your engine bay and you are likely to not suck up debris at idle. Off throttle happens often enough while driving when air is being pushed all around your engine back coming in through the front kidneys etc. Especially on a MT. This is when I would be most concerned about an open BOV sucking in sand/debris while cruising around not idle.

Having VTA BOV open at idle is like running a turboguard or mesh screen on your turbo. Yes you can do it, but it is not best practice and is easily avoidable. I don't want crap in my turbo or engine.

Originally Posted by Riceball777

i have personally spoke to the techs that work at tial and the bov is suppose to be open at idle

I emailed Tial technical support team and will let you know their response.

For supercharged applications you/they are correct and is what they recommend for obvious reasons: http://tialsport.com/documents/TiAL%...%20Product.pdf

3. Why is there a unique spring pack for supercharged applications?
Supercharged engines typically produce positive manifold pressure at idle and most supercharger
manufacturers recommend bypassing that pressure for tuning purposes. As a result we suggest a
very weak spring to allow the valve to remain open at idle, but to close very rapidly once that
negative pressure is increased to positive. It is perfectly normal for our BOV to be open at idle on
supercharged applications.

This is ok because the SC is making positive pressure in the intake manifold. Air would be pushed out of the BOV, not sucked in. The chance of dirt, sand, debris is significantly less under positive pressure pushing out vs. vacuum as vacuum literally sucking in the air and everything else in that comes with it.



4. What is the best way to test a BOV?
It is best to connect a hand vacuum pump to the air fitting and slowly create vacuum while monitoring valve travel. The valve should begin to move at the low range of the spring rating and should open as vacuum increases numerically.

It being closed is basically implied there. The valve has to 1st move a few MM for the piston of the BOV to open to allow the pressurized air to escape.



https://www.gfbuk.com/faqs.cfm

"Since a vent-to-atmosphere BOV needs to be shut at idle to avoid air being drawn in through it, there is a spring inside a BOV with the job of holding the piston closed. The spring preload adjustment is to allow for differences in engine vacuum from car to car, and variations in atmospheric pressure at different elevations.

On airflow metered cars the air drawn in through an open vent-to-atmosphere BOV at idle would confuse the ECU and cause over-fuelling and stalling and in any case, the air drawn in is unfiltered.

Under cruise conditions (off boost) the BOV is experiencing similar conditions to when the car is at idle, but there is less vacuum present on top of the piston because the throttle is partly open. If the BOV spring has been adjusted to keep the piston closed at idle, it will also be closed at cruise."



https://www.nukeperformance.com/faq-blowoffvalve.html

"What happens within the BOV?

At engine idle engine vacuum at the top of the BOV piston is trying to force the piston to open. There is no vacuum or pressure at the bottom of the piston. A vented BOV needs to remain shut in idle state to avoid leaking. To make that possible, there is a stainless spring inside the upper BOV housing that holds the piston closed. Nuke Performance offers three different springs for differences in engine vacuum in order to make it possible to optimize the setup for any engine."



I can't find any VTA BOV manufacturer who recommends it open on a turbo application vs. supercharged. I also don't understand why you would want it open at idle/cruising sucking in non filtered air?

[JM98]

Theres nothing wrong with it being open at Idle, but if that bothers you:

Use whetever spring is barely closed at idle. If its just a little open, shim it and you are good to go. Super easy and straight forward, but people debate this for days lol.

[riczon.335i]

I'm running the plain spring that came with my TiAl/ER Chargepipe combo, had better response once I installed the BMS BOV adapter. Also mine stays shut and let's out air when it needs to.

[Torgus]

Originally Posted by JM98

Theres nothing wrong with it being open at Idle

If you thinking letting unfiltered air and debris into your intact track is appropriate run it open. If open there is vacuum, as explained above, and it will let in unfiltered debris and air in. It is designed to be closed at idle by the manufacturers. It is also not just at idle but off boost cruising off throttle etc. while driving while you have plenty of airflow coming into your engine bay. Plenty of dust and debris.

Originally Posted by Riceball777

i have personally spoke to the techs that work at tial and the bov is suppose to be open at idle

Tech Support <tech@tialsport.com>
to: XXX
date: May 7, 2020, 8:30 AM
subject: Re: Should the Tial BOV 50MM be open at idle or just slightly closed?
signed-by: tialsport-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com
security: Standard encryption (TLS) Learn more
: Important mainly because it was sent directly to you.



Tech Support
8:30 AM (8 minutes ago)
to me

Hi, Torgus,

Our spring charts are designed to allow the BOV to be closed at idle, but with just enough of a spring load to allow very quick response upon deceleration.

The only reason you would not do this is if the car is MAF-equipped, as it would affect the engine tuning at idle. But, in reality, a MAF-equipped car really should use a QR and recirculate the discharged air anyhow.

The one 'wrong' thing to do is to use a very stiff spring, stiffer than needed, as that will delay the opening, which negates the purpose of the BOV.

Let me know if this helps.

Best Regards,

Mike Franke
Tech Support
TiALSport, Inc.
E- tech@tialsport.com
W- tialsport.com
P- 989-494-7268



from: Jermaine Riddick <jermaine@turboxs.com>
to: Torgus
cc: TurboXS Sales <sales@turboxs.com>
date: May 7, 2020, 11:49 AM
subject: Re: Should the TurboXS BOV be open at idle or just slightly closed? The VTA version.
signed-by: turboxs-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com
security: Standard encryption (TLS) Learn more
: Important according to Google magic.


Jermaine Riddick <jermaine@turboxs.com>
11:49 AM (53 minutes ago)
to me, TurboXS

Torgus,

The valve should be closed.



So that would be 4-5 well known VTA BOV manufacturer's who clearly state the BOV should be closed at idle so you don't draw in unfiltered air. I don't think it can be any more simple. Open, unfiltered air bad. Closed, filtered air good.

There is not ANY advantage at all of having it open at idle. I don't understand why anyone would even try and argue this?

[Riceball777]

Originally Posted by Torgus

If you thinking letting unfiltered air and debris into your intact track is appropriate run it open. If open there is vacuum, as explained above, and it will let in unfiltered debris and air in. It is designed to be closed at idle by the manufacturers. It is also not just at idle but off boost cruising off throttle etc. while driving while you have plenty of airflow coming into your engine bay. Plenty of dust and debris.





Tech Support <tech@tialsport.com>
to: XXX
date: May 7, 2020, 8:30 AM
subject: Re: Should the Tial BOV 50MM be open at idle or just slightly closed?
signed-by: tialsport-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com
security: Standard encryption (TLS) Learn more
: Important mainly because it was sent directly to you.



Tech Support
8:30 AM (8 minutes ago)
to me

Hi, Torgus,

Our spring charts are designed to allow the BOV to be closed at idle, but with just enough of a spring load to allow very quick response upon deceleration.

The only reason you would not do this is if the car is MAF-equipped, as it would affect the engine tuning at idle. But, in reality, a MAF-equipped car really should use a QR and recirculate the discharged air anyhow.

The one 'wrong' thing to do is to use a very stiff spring, stiffer than needed, as that will delay the opening, which negates the purpose of the BOV.

Let me know if this helps.

Best Regards,

Mike Franke
Tech Support
TiALSport, Inc.
E- tech@tialsport.com
W- tialsport.com
P- 989-494-7268



from: Jermaine Riddick <jermaine@turboxs.com>
to: Torgus
cc: TurboXS Sales <sales@turboxs.com>
date: May 7, 2020, 11:49 AM
subject: Re: Should the TurboXS BOV be open at idle or just slightly closed? The VTA version.
signed-by: turboxs-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com
security: Standard encryption (TLS) Learn more
: Important according to Google magic.


Jermaine Riddick <jermaine@turboxs.com>
11:49 AM (53 minutes ago)
to me, TurboXS

Torgus,

The valve should be closed.



So that would be 4-5 well known VTA BOV manufacturer's who clearly state the BOV should be closed at idle so you don't draw in unfiltered air. I don't think it can be any more simple. Open, unfiltered air bad. Closed, filtered air good.

There is not ANY advantage at all of having it open at idle. I don't understand why anyone would even try and argue this?

I have email tial about this and I just email them again and they told me ideally you want a soft spring so the valve is open at idle and it will respond faster this way.

Here is the copy and paste email from tial that I got today. And I have always known this as I have many turbo cars and have been running this bov for many years.

Hi, Benton,

If the car is not MAF-controlled, and can vent to the atmosphere, there is no reason why it needs to be closed at idle. It will actually respond a bit better with a slightly softer spring, honestly.

Best Regards,

Mike Franke
Tech Support
TiALSport, Inc.
E- tech@tialsport.com
W- tialsport.com
P- 989-494-7268


There you have it

I have many springs and realistically the softer the better. My turbo s2000 is at -22 of vacuum at idle and I run a 8psi spring and it runs way better and the valve responds way faster than a 11psi spring. You pretty much run the rated spring for your application is you want the valve to be closed at idle. But you can run a spring that is 1 or 2 psi lower to get much better response/performance and much faster movement out of the blow of valve. this is ideal for racing and for the longevity of your turbo.

[JM98]

Originally Posted by Riceball777

I have email tial about this and I just email them again and they told me ideally you want a soft spring so the valve is open at idle and it will respond faster this way.

Here is the copy and paste email from tial that I got today. And I have always known this as I have many turbo cars and have been running this bov for many years.

Hi, Benton,

If the car is not MAF-controlled, and can vent to the atmosphere, there is no reason why it needs to be closed at idle. It will actually respond a bit better with a slightly softer spring, honestly.

Best Regards,

Mike Franke
Tech Support
TiALSport, Inc.
E- tech@tialsport.com
W- tialsport.com
P- 989-494-7268


There you have it

I have many springs and realistically the softer the better. My turbo s2000 is at -22 of vacuum at idle and I run a 8psi spring and it runs way better and the valve responds way faster than a 11psi spring.

/end thread. lol

[Torgus]

Ok? Suck in unfiltered air? Run a turbo guard too. Metal oil filter, whatever you want.

My BOV is closed at idle and when cruising and it works perfectly fine. If I even barely let off throttle it opens immediately. I made my point, most VTA BOV manufacturers do not recomend it open for obvious reasons as stated above.

If you need it open at idle go for it. I do not see the need in my experience or nor is there any advantage I have seen.

[Boosted12a]

Save your self the wait. Toss a hand full of sand in your intake.

[2fast4]

Originally Posted by Torgus

Ok? Suck in unfiltered air? Run a turbo guard too. Metal oil filter, whatever you want.

My BOV is closed at idle and when cruising and it works perfectly fine. If I even barely let off throttle it opens immediately. I made my point, most VTA BOV manufacturers do not recomend it open for obvious reasons as stated above.

If you need it open at idle go for it. I do not see the need in my experience or nor is there any advantage I have seen.

+ 1,00,000 votes from me
VTA BOVs and not recirculated must be closed at idle, but more importantly cruising part throttle. Stock DVs are diverted back to the intake so whether it's partially open or closed, it doesn't matter. VTAs on the other hand, should be closed from dirt and debris.

[iqraceworks]

Yep...like everyone else has already said. A properly set up BOV will be just lightly closed at idle, and respond instantly when it needs to dump boost.

Having a super light spring in the BOV so that it's open at idle doesn't get you anything except dirt into your motor. Horrible idea.......but plenty of "internet experts" seem to do it.....