[Goneinsixtyseconds]

Land Rover seem to be joining the discounting bandwagon.

So much for manufacturers holding prices up and chasing margins.

Over £8k deposit contributions on Disco, Velar, RR. And that’s before dealer puts any extra contribution in.

Saw it advertised and ran a carwow quote on a Discovery Landmark, first offer, £9.9k off. So presumably a bit more to go at as well.

3.9% Apr as well, not bad for Land Rover.

[MashinBenzin]

Originally Posted by Goneinsixtyseconds

Land Rover seem to be joining the discounting bandwagon.

So much for manufacturers holding prices up and chasing margins.

Over £8k deposit contributions on Disco, Velar, RR. And that's before dealer puts any extra contribution in.

Saw it advertised and ran a carwow quote on a Discovery Landmark, first offer, £9.9k off. So presumably a bit more to go at as well.

3.9% Apr as well, not bad for Land Rover.

I've got a bit of previous here

Disco contributions were £4.5k in Q1 and £7.5k in June. 3.9% all year long.

CarWow quotes changed by less - my HSE L build showed £9.5k in Jan iirc and now one dealer at £10.9k. I re-ran quotes just in case I needed to have a chat with the dealer.

Possible and understandable that dealers may have to conserve a little more margin in each deal.

RRS and FFRR had larger discounts (in both cash and percentage terms) than the Disco back in January, but didn't run another build on them this time around.

ETA - as usual with LR, slightly better deals on drive the deal, I just put my build through and came up with £11.3k.

[Goneinsixtyseconds]

Originally Posted by MashinBenzin

I've got a bit of previous here

Disco contributions were £4.5k in Q1 and £7.5k in June. 3.9% all year long.

CarWow quotes changed by less - my HSE L build showed £9.5k in Jan iirc and now one dealer at £10.9k. I re-ran quotes just in case I needed to have a chat with the dealer.

Possible and understandable that dealers may have to conserve a little more margin in each deal.

RRS and FFRR had larger discounts (in both cash and percentage terms) than the Disco back in January, but didn't run another build on them this time around.

ETA - as usual with LR, slightly better deals on drive the deal, I just put my build through and came up with £11.3k.

Yes, I saw DTD had a bit more off, £10.5k off a basic £60k Landmark edition. In the past I have usually managed to beat broker prices by a little direct with the dealer arguing that they also make a margin.

Didn’t know LR had sunk so far with their pricing and Apr and that it had been happening for a while.

The Discovery deals are for stock cars only delivered by the end of September. This says to me that the facelift is close.

Maybe tooling changes in summer shutdown?

[MashinBenzin]

Originally Posted by Goneinsixtyseconds

Yes, I saw DTD had a bit more off, £10.5k off a basic £60k Landmark edition. In the past I have usually managed to beat broker prices by a little direct with the dealer arguing that they also make a margin.

Didn't know LR had sunk so far with their pricing and Apr and that it had been happening for a while.

The Discovery deals are for stock cars only delivered by the end of September. This says to me that the facelift is close.

Maybe tooling changes in summer shutdown?

On the discounts generally - I think they were already aware of the need to discount FFRR/RRS as the new models are very close. And the Disco because it's a bit unloved.

The Disco model year change is a bit of a strange one. I got caught up in it last year - was due a MY19, but a slight delay meant it got pushed past a April/May shutdown and emerged as a MY20 in July. They don't seem to have taken advantage of the Covid shutdown to change model years, as AFAIK my new one built June this year is also MY20.

The disguised test/pre-prod 'facelift' cars out on the road look pretty identical to current, right down to bumper shapes. Those on the LR forums believe that the 'facelift' will be all about PIVI Pro and mild hybrids. McGovern's talk (in Autocar last week) about a major shape change facelift perhaps refers to a D6, with the D5 living a short lifecycle of 5 years or so.

One thing about buying the current cars, if buying a six you get the well-proven SDV6 which has its roots in the Ford era. In the future it will be the new Ingenium in-line six. I'd probably swerve the first couple of years of a new JLR engine.

[MashinBenzin]

PPS. The deals being on stock cars - I was able to spec from scratch. That could be Landmark only, as that's likely to be a single model year special edition.

[isleaiw1]

Alex, just looking aimlessly at LR pricing or fancying one to replace the Q7?

[Goneinsixtyseconds]

Originally Posted by isleaiw1

Alex, just looking aimlessly at LR pricing or fancying one to replace the Q7?

I’m not. Fugly, and interior still a little utilitarian. But, the wife seems to like them and wants them in the mix for next car.

Still some decent equity in the Q7, money we put in not far off where we should be at this point, so a move is a possibility, but not definite by any means. I have to sort it if we’re doing it, and the enthusiasm isn’t high right now.

At the moment I’m at a point where I only like the interior cubby storage more than the Q7, but not much else has got me enthused yet. If the wife keeps pushing, I might act.

I quite like the Landmark edition, decent kit and exterior bits that help disguise the uglier parts.

I’d prefer a Q8.

[MashinBenzin]

Originally Posted by Goneinsixtyseconds

I’m not. Fugly, and interior still a little utilitarian. But, the wife seems to like them and wants them in the mix for next car.

Still some decent equity in the Q7, money we put in not far off where we should be at this point, so a move is a possibility, but not definite by any means. I have to sort it if we’re doing it, and the enthusiasm isn’t high right now.

At the moment I’m at a point where I only like the interior cubby storage more than the Q7, but not much else has got me enthused yet. If the wife keeps pushing, I might act.

I quite like the Landmark edition, decent kit and exterior bits that help disguise the uglier parts.

I’d prefer a Q8.

The landmark has the utilitarian interior, it's a SE in a frock. The HSE is a big step up and the HSE L another step further.

I like the honesty of the SE, but the range really splits into two sets of models - S/SE/Landmark and HSE/HSE L.

[Goneinsixtyseconds]

Originally Posted by MashinBenzin

The landmark has the utilitarian interior, it's a SE in a frock. The HSE is a big step up and the HSE L another step further.

I like the honesty of the SE, but the range really splits into two sets of models - S/SE/Landmark and HSE/HSE L.

Ah, see what you mean. Definitely out now, I’ll let her down gently. Even minimum spec of decent wheels and privacy glass gets to £70k list.

Not for us at that price. Mental money.

[MashinBenzin]

Originally Posted by Goneinsixtyseconds

Ah, see what you mean. Definitely out now, I’ll let her down gently. Even minimum spec of decent wheels and privacy glass gets to £70k list.

Not for us at that price. Mental money.

Yep, like any vaguely premium large SUV, poverty spec is £50s and £60s but a six cylinder engine and decent spec is £70s and up. Only exception i found was the Cayenne, where it became £80s and £90s.

[Goneinsixtyseconds]

Originally Posted by MashinBenzin

Yep, like any vaguely premium large SUV, poverty spec is £50s and £60s but a six cylinder engine and decent spec is £70s and up. Only exception i found was the Cayenne, where it became £80s and £90s.

Not quite. I can get a decent Q7 for low £60’s and a decent XC90 for the same.

I think a standard a fairly standard spec, ie, not loads of options ticked, is taking the piss at £70k plus.

Range Rover Sport money and some. It’s back to my previous point, Land Rover have narrowed their market over the years by being attainable by less people. Too many cars in the same price bracket for me. I know you don’t necessarily agree, just my opinion.

[MashinBenzin]

Originally Posted by Goneinsixtyseconds

Not quite. I can get a decent Q7 for low £60's and a decent XC90 for the same.

I think a standard a fairly standard spec, ie, not loads of options ticked, is taking the piss at £70k plus.

Range Rover Sport money and some. It's back to my previous point, Land Rover have narrowed their market over the years by being attainable by less people. Too many cars in the same price bracket for me. I know you don't necessarily agree, just my opinion.

Not going to get into another circular argument, but it's ridiculous to compare a low-end model from one range with a high-end model from another range.

The Q7 I sat in was a Vorsprung and had all I would want, but listed at something like £89k. The £60k model didn't have anything like the equipment levels that I want.

The XC90 is cheaper than both, unless you happen to choose a four-cylinder D5 (surprise, surprise).

The D5 is not remotely RRS money like-for-like, I know that as I've specced a million builds on both. I've heard FFRR owners call it 90% of a FFRR for 75% of the money, which feels like a fair summary.

[Goneinsixtyseconds]

Originally Posted by MashinBenzin

Not going to get into another circular argument, but it's ridiculous to compare a low-end model from one range with a high-end model from another range.

The Q7 I sat in was a Vorsprung and had all I would want, but listed at something like £89k. The £60k model didn't have anything like the equipment levels that I want.

The XC90 is cheaper than both, unless you happen to choose a four-cylinder D5 (surprise, surprise).

The D5 is not remotely RRS money like-for-like, I know that as I've specced a million builds on both. I've heard FFRR owners call it 90% of a FFRR for 75% of the money, which feels like a fair summary.

You’re not going to get into another circular argument, but you’re going to say my point is ridiculous? I said clearly that it was my opinion and not yours.

And I don’t agree with you. An S Line Audi Q7 inside, or an M Sport X5 feel every much as luxurious as a Land Rover Discovery HSE. I haven’t done a like for like spec check, because I don’t care about buying loads of options. For me it’s much more about how I feel when I sit in them.

The “base spec” as you call them, I’m calling them the sporty trims because that’s what I like, in the Q7, X5 or even XC90 satisfy my personal needs as a buyer. As I said previously, the Land Rover Discovery models at a similar price don’t feel as special inside and to me feel utilitarian.

I accept you spec your cars up differently to me and look for different things. But to say my opinion on what I’m personally looking for is ridiculous make me feel like you’re the owner of all of JLR, not just one of their cars. It isn’t a personal attack on your choice, it’s what works for me.

And a £60k ish X5, Q7 or XC90 feels special enough when I’m sat in the car for me, a £60k ish Discovery absolutely does not. And I know because I’ve just come out of Land Rover Chesterfield having sat in a Landmark and an HSE. The interior finish and feel of the other cars I’ve mentioned don’t vary as much as the Land Rover ones do as you move around the range.

[JustChris]

[IMG]https://media2.giphy.com/media/igR58...;rid=giphy.gif[/IMG]

[isleaiw1]

Originally Posted by Goneinsixtyseconds

And I know because I’ve just come out of Land Rover Chesterfield having sat in a Landmark and an HSE. The interior finish and feel of the other cars I’ve mentioned don’t vary as much as the Land Rover ones do as you move around the range.

I clearly havent mastered working from home properly....

[MashinBenzin]

Originally Posted by Goneinsixtyseconds

You're not going to get into another circular argument, but you're going to say my point is ridiculous? I said clearly that it was my opinion and not yours.

And I don't agree with you. An S Line Audi Q7 inside, or an M Sport X5 feel every much as luxurious as a Land Rover Discovery HSE. I haven't done a like for like spec check, because I don't care about buying loads of options. For me it's much more about how I feel when I sit in them.

The "base spec" as you call them, I'm calling them the sporty trims because that's what I like, in the Q7, X5 or even XC90 satisfy my personal needs as a buyer. As I said previously, the Land Rover Discovery models at a similar price don't feel as special inside and to me feel utilitarian.

I accept you spec your cars up differently to me and look for different things. But to say my opinion on what I'm personally looking for is ridiculous make me feel like you're the owner of all of JLR, not just one of their cars. It isn't a personal attack on your choice, it's what works for me.

And a £60k ish X5, Q7 or XC90 feels special enough when I'm sat in the car for me, a £60k ish Discovery absolutely does not. And I know because I've just come out of Land Rover Chesterfield having sat in a Landmark and an HSE. The interior finish and feel of the other cars I've mentioned don't vary as much as the Land Rover ones do as you move around the range.

Calm down, not a personal attack. Was just trying to explain market points, not your personal requirements.

Many people will consider that the extras are necessary and the first thing that happens when they go on a X5 configurator is to tick pano roofs, comfort packs (to get better seats), stereo upgrades, leather, blah blah, as they want that special feeling or bits that they are accustomed too.

Volvo, LR, the Japanese all go for the bundled trim levels far more than the Germans who go more bespoke build. Which means a cheaper car if you don't want those bits and pieces, no argument.

As for protector of the brand (or whatever it was, typing in the app so can't see your post). Ermm, no, hardly. Just shooting the breeze about cars which is what I happen to enjoy. Posted in this thread as it happened to be a topic I knew a little about, having spent more than 12 months revisiting LR discounts.

[MashinBenzin]

Originally Posted by Goneinsixtyseconds

Not quite. I can get a decent Q7 for low £60’s and a decent XC90 for the same.

I think a standard a fairly standard spec, ie, not loads of options ticked, is taking the piss at £70k plus.

I'm not seeking to further the argument, but pointing out what I was responding too.

The D5 HSE Luxury is pretty much exactly £70k and comes with:

Windsor Leather - similar in quality to Merino
18-way driver/passenger seats
21" wheels
Heated rear seats
Heated and cooled front seats
Folding mirrors
306bhp V6
twin sunroofs, one opening
825w stereo
Adaptive cruise with LKA, AEB etc.
Rear seat entertainment screens
7 seats
Heated steering wheel
4-zone climate
etc. etc.

That's not, in German terms, a fairly standard spec car without lots of options ticked. Not last time I went near a Audi/BMW configurator.

I absolutely get that almost none of those things are of value to you.

[Goneinsixtyseconds]

Originally Posted by MashinBenzin

Calm down, not a personal attack. Was just trying to explain market points, not your personal requirements.

Many people will consider that the extras are necessary and the first thing that happens when they go on a X5 configurator is to tick pano roofs, comfort packs (to get better seats), stereo upgrades, leather, blah blah, as they want that special feeling or bits that they are accustomed too.

Volvo, LR, the Japanese all go for the bundled trim levels far more than the Germans who go more bespoke build. Which means a cheaper car if you don't want those bits and pieces, no argument.

As for protector of the brand (or whatever it was, typing in the app so can't see your post). Ermm, no, hardly. Just shooting the breeze about cars which is what I happen to enjoy. Posted in this thread as it happened to be a topic I knew a little about, having spent more than 12 months revisiting LR discounts.

I understand your point.

Mine is ridiculous though. The base version of a Q7, X5, XC90 still feels like a great place to sit, luxurious and I would be happy with it as I am the Q7 S Line that we have now. A base spec Discovery does not feel like those cars.

Which means we’re sticking with the Q7 to the end of its term. Because a like for like price wise swap to a Disco feels very much like a downgrade when sat behind the wheel.

And you do feel like the brand protector from where I’m sat. If I ever dare to say that I think Land Rover have wedged too many cars into similar price brackets I’m shot down. In the showroom today there was an Evoque at £54k, a Velar at £57k, a Defender at £58k, a Disco at £62k and a RRS at £70k.

Whilst I know the cars have different attributes, the bank balances of those who can buy them don’t vary that much.

And this hasn’t always been the case with them, it’s a direction they’ve taken over the last 8 years or so.

[isleaiw1]

I can see both points, I dont think the interior of a Q7 or X5 feels much different to the cheaper models of those brands I have owned (and I dont really think the interior of my current car is special enough for its list price, it gets away with it at the price I paid...)

If my wife was here and I was spending £68k on a car, it would be a JLR product. Every time we swapped she wanted one and every time I had to find a reason not to have one (normally Gordon Lambs inability to put a deal together). But now it would be a RRS, absolutely no question.... or maybe an Evoque for her and I could have a runabout!

And I get that with them. There is just something about them that is more appealing compared to the Germans....instead she had a Mini which was equally more appealing to her than an equiv BMW or Merc...

The model I dont get with LR is the Disco Sport - thought the Freelander was a better fit for its market but what do I know...

[Goneinsixtyseconds]

Originally Posted by isleaiw1

I can see both points, I dont think the interior of a Q7 or X5 feels much different to the cheaper models of those brands I have owned (and I dont really think the interior of my current car is special enough for its list price, it gets away with it at the price I paid...)

If my wife was here and I was spending £68k on a car, it would be a JLR product. Every time we swapped she wanted one and every time I had to find a reason not to have one (normally Gordon Lambs inability to put a deal together). But now it would be a RRS, absolutely no question.... or maybe an Evoque for her and I could have a runabout!

And I get that with them. There is just something about them that is more appealing compared to the Germans....instead she had a Mini which was equally more appealing to her than an equiv BMW or Merc...

The model I dont get with LR is the Disco Sport - thought the Freelander was a better fit for its market but what do I know...

The Freelander was a good access point to the basic end of the brand. In 2013 we bought a Freelander for £23k new, with zero discount. It felt a bit like the interior of the Landmark I sat in today.

[MashinBenzin]

Originally Posted by isleaiw1

I can see both points, I dont think the interior of a Q7 or X5 feels much different to the cheaper models of those brands I have owned (and I dont really think the interior of my current car is special enough for its list price, it gets away with it at the price I paid...)

If my wife was here and I was spending £68k on a car, it would be a JLR product. Every time we swapped she wanted one and every time I had to find a reason not to have one (normally Gordon Lambs inability to put a deal together). But now it would be a RRS, absolutely no question.... or maybe an Evoque for her and I could have a runabout!

And I get that with them. There is just something about them that is more appealing compared to the Germans....instead she had a Mini which was equally more appealing to her than an equiv BMW or Merc...

The model I dont get with LR is the Disco Sport - thought the Freelander was a better fit for its market but what do I know...

A very good point. I could hardly put a cigarette paper between the X7 and the D5. Sure, it was 7/10 for the D5 here and 10/10 there, and then vice-versa for the X7, but as overall packages damn near inseparable. But my wife unequivocally could decide - everything hung on the interior and exterior subjective aspects. To her iDrive and InControl were interchangable, to me less so! She only let me know how unequivocal after I had decided...

My daughter though....I mentioned Daddy's new car and she said 'oh yes, the white one with all the lights inside, i love it'. That would be the loan X7

I don't really know enough about the Freelander and Disco Sport (to my uneducated eye, I thought it was a like-for-like replacement), but I do think they spoilt the branding. The Freelander surely had a loyal customer base and does the Disco Sport rob the big brother of buyers that wanted a Discovery badge come hell or high water? I've no idea on either point.

[Goneinsixtyseconds]

Originally Posted by MashinBenzin

A very good point. I could hardly put a cigarette paper between the X7 and the D5. Sure, it was 7/10 for the D5 here and 10/10 there, and then vice-versa for the X7, but as overall packages damn near inseparable. But my wife unequivocally could decide - everything hung on the interior and exterior subjective aspects. To her iDrive and InControl were interchangable, to me less so! She only let me know how unequivocal after I had decided...

My daughter though....I mentioned Daddy's new car and she said 'oh yes, the white one with all the lights inside, i love it'. That would be the loan X7

I don't really know enough about the Freelander and Disco Sport (to my uneducated eye, I thought it was a like-for-like replacement), but I do think they spoilt the branding. The Freelander surely had a loyal customer base and does the Disco Sport rob the big brother of buyers that wanted a Discovery badge come hell or high water? I've no idea on either point.

I think ultimately it is a direct replacement. But it certainly wasn’t branded that way when launched. It was marketed as a move more upmarket, more than just a regular replacement, with quite a big jump in prices and equipment. 7 seats as an example.

I think people came to realise after a while that it was really meant to just be a replacement, despite the marketing that made out it was a totally new concept. Didn’t stop my boss falling for the marketing though and buying one in top spec. It didn’t last long and he went back to his usual M cars, but he took a big hit getting out of it.