[Koturbo]

So, I'm due for my first oil change and the dealership reached out to schedule. Initially I was just going to take it in, but after giving it some thought I decided to hold off and think this through. My hesitation is two fold...first, I don't want to mess with flashing back to stock on everything, as last time I was at the dealer for RIS they wiped my bimmercode updates as well as my tune off the car. My second thought is that I might want to use a different engine oil. With the tune, and likely future upgrades, I was thinking of going with a performance oriented oil like a liquimoly, or royal purple. Thoughts on this? Anyone running a non OEM oil and noticing a positive change?

Thanks!

[heavyD^2]

Chances are the BMW oil is much better for your engine than designer oils. I wouldn't put Royal Purple in my wife's Outback.

[PunH20]

I use 5w-30 Full synthetic Pennzoil in my 740i. The owners manual also has the recommended oils to use and what safe for the engine 👍🏽 good luck And correct me if I’m wrong but I think BMW oil is Pennzoil now

[spta97]

Originally Posted by heavyD^2

Chances are the BMW oil is much better for your engine than designer oils. I wouldn't put Royal Purple in my wife's Outback.

Why?

[heavyD^2]

Originally Posted by spta97

Why?

It's not superior to off the shelf oils that cost less. Years back they were found guilty of false advertising with their claims of additional performance, 80% reduction in wear, etc so don't buy into the advertising hype of magic engine oils. Does it even meet BMW ACEA A3/B4 specifications?

[Kitzhabersucks]

BMW doesn't make their own oil. It's only recommended supplier (renewed in Sept 2018)
is Shell Oil.
Shell-produced premium engine oils will be used for BMW service fills until Sept 2022, when their agreement expires.
That's doesn't necessarily make it a superior choice. That just means they won the contract.

[Kitzhabersucks]

Here's a copy of part of the statement issued:

Shell today has officially renewed its status as BMW AG’s only recommended supplier for aftermarket engine oils in EMEA for a further three years till end 2022 for all BMW Group brands; BMW, BMW i, BMW M, MINI, BMW Motorrad and Rolls-Royce Motor Cars.

The three-year extension will mean that premium BMW engine oils manufactured by Shell will continue to be available to customers at BMW’s dealer network in Europe, the Middle East and Africa

This collaboration means that Shell will continue to produce and supply’s BMW’s branded engine oils, which meet the latest BMW engine specifications. These oils will feature Shell’s PurePlus Technology, a breakthrough technology where base oil is produced using a patented process in which natural gas is converted to base oil, also known as gas-to-liquid (GTL) technology.

“We are very honoured to work with BMW and supply them with premium engine oils featuring our cutting-edge technology. We look forward to further strengthen the collaboration as we move forward in our commercial and technical relationships,” said Patrick Carré, Vice President Global Key Accounts of Shell Global Commercial.

[heavyD^2]

Originally Posted by Kitzhabersucks

BMW doesn't make their own oil. It's only recommended supplier (renewed in Sept 2018)
is Shell Oil.
Shell-produced premium engine oils will be used for BMW service fills until Sept 2022, when their agreement expires.
That's doesn't necessarily make it a superior choice. That just means they won the contract.

I think most people realize that no automaker makes their own oil. This is no different than Castrol supplying oil under "Castrol Edge Professional" for VAG. The factory fill Pennzoil is designed to meet BMW's specifications and you can't go wrong using it ever. Any oil that meets BMW specifications should suffice as they have met 3rd party approvals to be able to place the specifications on their labels while boutique oils carry anecdotal, advertising, and testimonials. It doesn't mean they are not good oils but the reality is that they are comfort oil for people that think they're doing something special for their engines but there is little to no proof that they outperform corporate oils.

[Kitzhabersucks]

Originally Posted by heavyD^2

I think most people realize that no automaker makes their own oil. This is no different than Castrol supplying oil under "Castrol Edge Professional" for VAG. The factory fill Pennzoil is designed to meet BMW's specifications and you can't go wrong using it ever. Any oil that meets BMW specifications should suffice as they have met 3rd party approvals to be able to place the specifications on their labels while boutique oils carry anecdotal, advertising, and testimonials. It doesn't mean they are not good oils but the reality is that they are comfort oil for people that think they're doing something special for their engines but there is little to no proof that they outperform corporate oils.

That was my point.

[sayemthree]

how often you change it is more important than superior quality. If you dont want to have the dealer do it then DIY with a quality name brand, mobil one , castrol, etc.

[spta97]

Originally Posted by sayemthree

how often you change it is more important than superior quality. If you dont want to have the dealer do it then DIY with a quality name brand, mobil one , castrol, etc.

What's the forum recommendation for frequency?

Due to my low mileage, I'll probably change it annually rather than at a specific mileage. I've only got 1600 miles since purchase in December

[spta97]

Originally Posted by heavyD^2

It's not superior to off the shelf oils that cost less. Years back they were found guilty of false advertising with their claims of additional performance, 80% reduction in wear, etc so don't buy into the advertising hype of magic engine oils. Does it even meet BMW ACEA A3/B4 specifications?

Interesting. I have used RP ATF on my manual E46 M3 and shifting improved significantly.

This was based on the forum recommendation at the time.

[sayemthree]

Originally Posted by spta97

What's the forum recommendation for frequency?

Due to my low mileage, I'll probably change it annually rather than at a specific mileage. I've only got 1600 miles since purchase in December

I usually split the bmw interval so about 5000 mi. BMW says one year.

[spta97]

Originally Posted by sayemthree

I usually split the bmw interval so about 5000 mi. BMW says one year.

Not a bad idea. I'm a bit nervous on the oil change for this vehicle as it seems non-standard.

I may measure what I was able to get out to ensure I do not run into a under/over fill situation.

[FSociety]

Originally Posted by spta97

What's the forum recommendation for frequency?

Due to my low mileage, I'll probably change it annually rather than at a specific mileage. I've only got 1600 miles since purchase in December

Low mileage then once a year lol or whenever the car says you have 1500 miles left maybe

Originally Posted by sayemthree

I usually split the bmw interval so about 5000 mi. BMW says one year.

Same, but if you drive 10k miles a year thats 2 oil changes

[Daniely30]

since i drive pretty hard, i do every 5k and always send a sample to blackstone lab

[Tishers]

It is your worst nightmare;
1) market forces where planned obsolescence and a new car sale in 5-10 years is a business goal. If companies made machines that lasted forever they would go out of business pretty quick.

vs.
2) engineer personal goals; where we want to design something that exceeds every specification. You know, does it twice as fast, lasts ten times as long and is made from diamonds and unobtanium.

#1 controls the business. #2 often thinks that the #1's are evil. #1 thinks that #2's have no concept of cost, schedule or "just good enough".

I make this gripe because as an engineer I spent a significant portion of my career trying to overdesign things, add little "special features" in to hardware or code or using higher quality components (yea, we should always use NP0 capacitors with low ESR, at ten times the voltage rating. Resistors all need to be .1ppm drift .1% precision, chips all need to be mil-spec, -55 to 125C temperature ratings).

After a few drinks and carving out a portion of my purist's soul after a budget review of product development I can admit that those business people do have a point! (on the tip of their head that also holds beady little eyes). Grudgingly we all end up backing down to design things the way they wanted. (not ideal tolerances).

-------------------------------

Where I am going with this monologue is that a 12 month oil change cycle is more of a business decision to let BMW give us things like 4-5 year warranties. At some point they do not want to see you showing up with your 25 year old car. Business-wise you should of been on your fourth or fifth car.

I did things above and beyond on my Mercedes, that the BMW has replaced. The Mercedes has 200,000 miles on it and the engine still runs quietly. Of course the shocks and bushings are in horrible shape. I over-maintained that engine for fifteen years with 3000 mile oil changes and performance doping of the oil with tungsten disulphide as a friction reducing additive.

I only have 275 miles on the X3 but I am already thinking of its first oil change. Something that struck me was what the "break in" oil change interval is on the M series cars (I think I read 1500 miles??). If this is what they want to do with an M series then why not do the same thing on non-M's? That first oil change is to get rid of any metallic microparticles, grit or contamination that came from a bunch of parts that were assembled in to an engine.

So, I will stick with the 12 month, 10,000 mile intervals at the dealership, but at those middle 6 month periods I am doing my own oil and filter changes, checking and topping off other fluids and a general crawl beneath the car to look for oddities.

Oil analysis was something that companies like Blackstone did on aircraft engines and very large, very expensive fixed rotating machinery. If you do an analysis on the first change you should expect to see higher than normal levels of metals and maybe things like moly that was used as an assembly lube. With repeated analysis those metals levels should continue to drop as components run-in to each other and take a set. You want to look at things like TBN, TAN, viscosity to see how well the oil is holding up and if you are getting contamination from gasoline in the oil (dilution, Boxer engines are bad for that).

I would not be doing a Blackstone type test for each oil change but maybe once a year when you do your own oil. Also, cut apart the oil filter to peel the filter media apart and look for metal shavings in the pleats.

So yea, BMW says once a year is good enough. But I am looking on longer scales of time than their business model of having you buy a new car every few years.

[robopp]

Originally Posted by Tishers

It is your worst nightmare;
1) market forces where planned obsolescence and a new car sale in 5-10 years is a business goal. If companies made machines that lasted forever they would go out of business pretty quick.

vs.
2) engineer personal goals; where we want to design something that exceeds every specification. You know, does it twice as fast, lasts ten times as long and is made from diamonds and unobtanium.

#1 controls the business. #2 often thinks that the #1's are evil. #1 thinks that #2's have no concept of cost, schedule or "just good enough".

I make this gripe because as an engineer I spent a significant portion of my career trying to overdesign things, add little "special features" in to hardware or code or using higher quality components (yea, we should always use NP0 capacitors with low ESR, at ten times the voltage rating. Resistors all need to be .1ppm drift .1% precision, chips all need to be mil-spec, -55 to 125C temperature ratings).

After a few drinks and carving out a portion of my purist's soul after a budget review of product development I can admit that those business people do have a point! (on the tip of their head that also holds beady little eyes). Grudgingly we all end up backing down to design things the way they wanted. (not ideal tolerances).

-------------------------------

Where I am going with this monologue is that a 12 month oil change cycle is more of a business decision to let BMW give us things like 4-5 year warranties. At some point they do not want to see you showing up with your 25 year old car. Business-wise you should of been on your fourth or fifth car.

I did things above and beyond on my Mercedes, that the BMW has replaced. The Mercedes has 200,000 miles on it and the engine still runs quietly. Of course the shocks and bushings are in horrible shape. I over-maintained that engine for fifteen years with 3000 mile oil changes and performance doping of the oil with tungsten disulphide as a friction reducing additive.

I only have 275 miles on the X3 but I am already thinking of its first oil change. Something that struck me was what the "break in" oil change interval is on the M series cars (I think I read 1500 miles??). If this is what they want to do with an M series then why not do the same thing on non-M's? That first oil change is to get rid of any metallic microparticles, grit or contamination that came from a bunch of parts that were assembled in to an engine.

So, I will stick with the 12 month, 10,000 mile intervals at the dealership, but at those middle 6 month periods I am doing my own oil and filter changes, checking and topping off other fluids and a general crawl beneath the car to look for oddities.

Oil analysis was something that companies like Blackstone did on aircraft engines and very large, very expensive fixed rotating machinery. If you do an analysis on the first change you should expect to see higher than normal levels of metals and maybe things like moly that was used as an assembly lube. With repeated analysis those metals levels should continue to drop as components run-in to each other and take a set. You want to look at things like TBN, TAN, viscosity to see how well the oil is holding up and if you are getting contamination from gasoline in the oil (dilution, Boxer engines are bad for that).

I would not be doing a Blackstone type test for each oil change but maybe once a year when you do your own oil. Also, cut apart the oil filter to peel the filter media apart and look for metal shavings in the pleats.

So yea, BMW says once a year is good enough. But I am looking on longer scales of time than their business model of having you buy a new car every few years.

Have you seen what's required to change the oil? It's very involved and an engineering embarrassment. I agree though, I'll change my oil every 5k miles. Cheap insurance

[Chris.Caywood]

I have been told that a Synthetic Blend oil change has caused damage to my Cam fallowers and the solenoids.

Is that possible?

[heavyD^2]

Originally Posted by Chris.Caywood

I have been told that a Synthetic Blend oil change has caused damage to my Cam fallowers and the solenoids.

Is that possible?

What engine? If it's an engine like the S58 it's probably very possible. As I said earlier in this thread sticking with factory oil is the best unless you do your homework on the oil you substitute. Not too many modern engines these days will be designed for a synthetic blended oil.

[09elphant]

I totally agree with changing the oil every 5,000 miles... The way that I see it, with direct injection we get a bit more fuel dilution (or blow by) than with traditional injection... As we run the engine, that unspent gasoline will eventually volatize (evaporate) and potentially make its way back into our intake via the PCV system... I realize BMW has built in a air oil separator (catch can), but why take the chance, especially since the fuel no longer flows around the intake valve; cleaning the valve.... Somewhat unrelated, has anyone changed the oil in their X7 themselves yet? I just did and the filter housing was leaking at the 40nm (newton meters) torque setting... I called a dealer and they said they don't torque, they just tighten it... Got to give them credit for being honest... I played around with the torque until it wouldn't leak, 98nm... Wow.... I'm curious what you folks have experienced...