[FastF30]

lately I've noticed a lot that there is an increase in threads not just on this forum but also other and videos saying people are blowing B58's due to pistons right around 650+/- hp.... I've seen a lot of videos of guys running N55's with big turbos and still holding together... Just saying what I noticed...

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by FastF30

lately I've noticed a lot that there is an increase in threads not just on this forum but also other and videos saying people are blowing B58's due to pistons right around 650+/- hp.... I've seen a lot of videos of guys running N55's with big turbos and still holding together... Just saying what I noticed...

You're pretty much walking on egg shells once you go past 500whp on an N54, N55, or B58. I'd even say 450whp with an N54 or N55. Sure many have done 500-600whp+ with any of those motors, but the reality is you're running the motor way outside it's intended design. If BMW thought the N54/N55/B58 were that strong, they'd be using those short blocks for the M cars. Even then, BMW runs it's I6 M cars well below 500whp. Just something to think about.

[ZM2]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

You're pretty much walking on egg shells once you go past 500whp on an N54, N55, or B58. I'd even say 450whp with an N54 or N55. Sure many have done 500-600whp+ with any of those motors, but the reality is you're running the motor way outside it's intended design. If BMW thought the N54/N55/B58 were that strong, they'd be using those short blocks for the M cars. Even then, BMW runs it's I6 M cars well below 500whp. Just something to think about.

Agreed.

That and cooling for the N55 are the main reasons I purposefully targeted 425-450whp for an M2 that sees a lot of time on the track.

[FastF30]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

You're pretty much walking on egg shells once you go past 500whp on an N54, N55, or B58.

Originally Posted by ZM2

Agreed.

That and cooling for the N55 are the main reasons I purposefully targeted 425-450whp for an M2 that sees a lot of time on the track.

I guess my point is if the B58 is limited to same horsepower as a N55 then I benefit from a better handling car...

Tired of hearing how great that motor is... lol... they'll probably change the pistons on the LCI and then it will be worth it... but for now... I'm all smiles...

[ZM2]

IMO, our “unrefined” N55’s sound and feel better.

[F32Fleet]

Ya, we all know that an engine is shit if it can't reliably make 100% more power than stock.

[davidr3]

Originally Posted by FastF30

I guess my point is if the B58 is limited to same horsepower as a N55 then I benefit from a better handling car...

Tired of hearing how great that motor is... lol... they'll probably change the pistons on the LCI and then it will be worth it... but for now... I'm all smiles...

Doubt they'd upgrade the pistons, stock power the car holds up just fine.

[harkes]

Originally Posted by F32Fleet

Ya, we all know that an engine is shit if it can't reliably make 100% more power than stock.

Haha +1

[FastF30]

Originally Posted by F32Fleet

Ya, we all know that an engine is shit if it can't reliably make 100% more power than stock.

Originally Posted by harkes

Haha +1

I'm not the one that picked it to be the next "2JZ" motor....The "2JZ" is known to hit over 800hp on stock internals....and the 2JZ was developed/Engineered in the late 80's!... Me personally think the B58 should hit 850hp before issues start popping up... just my opinion...


and if the transmission held up to 850Hp.... then the B58 combo would be legendary........................

*

[thejeremyman9]

Originally Posted by FastF30

I'm not the one that picked it to be the next "2JZ" motor....The "2JZ" is known to hit over 800hp on stock internals....and the 2JZ was developed/Engineered in the late 80's!... Me personally think the B58 should hit 850hp before issues start popping up... just my opinion...


and if the transmission held up to 850Hp.... then the B58 combo would be legendary........................

*

The engine and trans can hold, at least for a short while at close to those figures (crank HP). IIRC Adam Lz red supra's highest numbers were 672whp and then he sprayed on top of that... so i wouldnt be surprised if he was at 850hp crank. The trans held for the most part but would slip if it got hot, but he still went 9s. Plenty of other people are also running 9s and even with some weight reduction shoudl be at similar power figures. Also, his N54 335i with stock motor to my knowedge made over 800whp.

[johnung]

Originally Posted by ZM2

Agreed.

That and cooling for the N55 are the main reasons I purposefully targeted 425-450whp for an M2 that sees a lot of time on the track.

I'm curious how you targeted 425-450hp on the N55? I'm under the impression that the limit on the stock turbo is about 400hp. And that if you upgrade to say a Pure Turbos Stage2 with a Dorch1 hpfp, that you might be around 475hp.

[ZM2]

Originally Posted by johnung

I'm curious how you targeted 425-450hp on the N55? I'm under the impression that the limit on the stock turbo is about 400hp. And that if you upgrade to say a Pure Turbos Stage2 with a Dorch1 hpfp, that you might be around 475hp.

Sure.

Anyone I know with a PS2 that's a decently quick driver cannot keep the N55 cool enough on track, especially during longer/open track sessions on a hot summer day.

Couple that with the fact that our air-to-air intercooled cars really need to be running race gas or E85 to not experience power loss with IATs >100F (easy to hit on >75F ambient track days) and that race gas costs $10/gal, I knew I was going with a half E85/half 93 octane approach.

Since I already had the Dinan turbo on my car from my old Stage 4 setup, I worked with Halim on the upcoming OTS Stage 2+ E30-40 tune to max out the Dinan to see what it could do.

Right now, it looks like we'll hit >430whp on a Dynojet (not some lame Dynocom or other dyno) with a rock solid setup that doesn't overheat the car or lose power at all on ambient 100F track days, which is pretty damn impressive for the little Dinan turbo that's barely better than the stock turbo. (He's had guys with larger turbos hit >530whp on the same/similar map.)

Hell, we’re at ~150hp more than the M235ir race car and we’re a little heavier, and we’ve got stable power thru an entire tank of gas. It’s taken a crap load of cooling mods, but that’s still no easy feat!

And, if I had to detune a PS2 to keep the car cool enough for the track, it might only get 10-15whp more? Not worth it, when the best part is I have instant spool around town and zero lag, which isn't the case for PS2 setups.

As a separate FYI, I dyno’ed 15whp less on the same day as an M2 with PS2 and 93 octane tuned by PureBoost, so that’s good. Put that setup on track and you’ll quickly start pulling timing bc of the 93 octane, and then I’m guessing our power levels would be the same.

If all you want is big numbers, bolt on a PS2 and hit a Dynocom. If you're building a machine to be completely solid during 45-50min track sessions on 100F ambient days, Stage 2 hybrid turbos are not the way to go.

I think the perfect in between would be a TTE 460, but that adds another couple $K to the race budget.

[johnung]

Originally Posted by ZM2

Sure.

Anyone I know with a PS2 that's a decently quick driver cannot keep the N55 cool enough on track, especially during longer/open track sessions on a hot summer day.

Couple that with the fact that our air-to-air intercooled cars really need to be running race gas or E85 to not experience power loss with IATs >100F (easy to hit on >75F ambient track days) and that race gas costs $10/gal, I knew I was going with a half E85/half 93 octane approach.

Since I already had the Dinan turbo on my car from my old Stage 4 setup, I worked with Halim on the upcoming OTS Stage 2+ E30-40 tune to max out the Dinan to see what it could do.

Right now, it looks like we'll hit >430whp on a Dynojet (not some lame Dynocom or other dyno) with a rock solid setup that doesn't overheat the car or lose power at all on ambient 100F track days, which is pretty damn impressive for the little Dinan turbo that's barely better than the stock turbo. (He's had guys with larger turbos hit >530whp on the same/similar map.)

And, if I had to detune a PS2 to keep the car cool enough for the track, it might only get 10-15whp more? Not worth it, when the best part is I have instant spool around town and zero lag, which isn't the case for PS2 setups.

If all you want is power, bolt on a Stage 2 turbo. If you're building a machine to be completely solid during 45-50min track sessions on 100F ambient days, Stage 2 hybrid turbos are not the way to go.

Hell, we're at ~150hp more than the M235ir race car and we're a little heavier, and we've got stable power thru an entire tank of gas. It's taken a crap load of cooling mods, but that's still no easy feat!

I think the perfect in between would be a TTE 460, but that adds another couple $K to the race budget.

Thanks for the excellent response. With all of the heat issues, curious which FMICs you have tried on the track?

And if your goal wasn't to track, but you wanted to upgrade your N55 EWG above 400hp to a turbo with "instant spool around town and zero lag", what would you consider?

[ZM2]

Originally Posted by johnung

Thanks for the excellent response. With all of the heat issues, curious which FMICs you have tried on the track?

And if your goal wasn't to track, but you wanted to upgrade your N55 EWG above 400hp to a turbo with "instant spool around town and zero lag", what would you consider?

Well, I’m running the Evo3 Comp FMIC, and it doesn’t get better than that for the track! The VRSF Race looks to have as much cooling, but it’s heavier, doesn’t bolt to the crash bumper, and likely has more pressure drop than the Evo3.

But, if you’re sticking to the street, a CSF, do88, or one of the VRSF’s is good enough.

As for turbo, the TTE 460 isn’t going to get you 500whp, prob ~450-460whp (hence the name) on Halim’s new map and a Dynojet, but it spools as fast as stock.

[johnung]

Originally Posted by ZM2

Well, I'm running the Evo3 Comp FMIC, and it doesn't get better than that for the track! The VRSF Race looks to have as much cooling, but it's heavier, doesn't bolt to the crash bumper, and likely has more pressure drop than the Evo3.

But, if you're sticking to the street, a CSF, do88, or one of the VRSF's is good enough.

As for turbo, the TTE 460 isn't going to get you 500whp, prob ~450-460whp (hence the name) on Halim's new map and a Dynojet, but it spools as fast as stock.

Cool. I haven't spoken with anyone who is actually running an EVO3. Glad to hear it does the job without pressure drop.

I went with a Competition EVO1 two years ago because I wanted the least amount of turbo lag in a street performance 335ix N55 EWG. I figured that it would get me to at least 400hp or whatever the stock turbo would max out at on 93 octane. If a larger turbo ever gave me heat soak I could upgrade to the EVO2.

I just did a quick search on the TTE460 and found references to it but none that said they had a product for a '15 335ix N55 EWG. Any recommendations?

[ZM2]

Originally Posted by johnung

Cool. I haven't spoken with anyone who is actually running an EVO3. Glad to hear it does the job without pressure drop.

I went with a Competition EVO1 two years ago because I wanted the least amount of turbo lag in a street performance 335ix N55 EWG. I figured that it would get me to at least 400hp or whatever the stock turbo would max out at on 93 octane. If a larger turbo ever gave me heat soak I could upgrade to the EVO2.

I just did a quick search on the TTE460 and found references to it but none that said they had a product for a '15 335ix N55 EWG. Any recommendations?

https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1727351

https://tteglobal.com/bmw/1-series/e...e-turbocharger

[ZM2]

Halim is looking for another beta tester to try the new BM3 OTS Stg 2+ E30-40 map before finalizing the OTS version. Requirements:

-N55 EWG
-Stock turbo
-FBO
-Aftermarket HPFP installed
-Can immediately send Stg 2 E30 logs for review
-Can do logs on his new map this coming week
-Can get on a Dynojet (no other dyno types) in the next 1-2-weeks
-Will dyno Stock, Stg 2 E30, and Stg 2+ E30-40 tunes during the same dyno session

PM me if you meet the above.

[Blahx9]

Originally Posted by FastF30

I'm not the one that picked it to be the next "2JZ" motor....The "2JZ" is known to hit over 800hp on stock internals....and the 2JZ was developed/Engineered in the late 80's!... Me personally think the B58 should hit 850hp before issues start popping up... just my opinion...


and if the transmission held up to 850Hp.... then the B58 combo would be legendary........................

*

Toyota had so much $ in the 80’s they over engineered everything. It’s not very often companies are in that position. Cost is usually a factor.