[M5Rick]

Sorry HAM,your not.
https://www.gpblog.com/en/news/70688...all-time-.html

[5.M0NSTER]

What?? Not Max?? Impossible, How can anyone have this opinion!!

Senna was special in a way that he operated the car not at the limit, but just a little beyond it. And unfortunately he paid the ultimate price for it. I can see why people think this.

Ham drives faster than others, and he executes flawlessly. But Senna was on another level in terms of feeling the car and being one with it.

[M5Rick]

^ Oh his time will come before long,I'm sure to be the greatest of all time you need to get a bit of mileage underneath you..

[EdM5]

For those who saw him race, no surprise really.

https://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/20324109

[5.M0NSTER]

Originally Posted by M5theonlyone

^ Oh Max's time will come before long,I'm sure to be the greatest of all time you need to get a bit of mileage underneath you..

Perhaps, but by then the bar will be rather high. 8 Championships (or more) and over 110 won races (or more).

All records fall eventually, so will the new bar set by HAM. The question is when, and by whom?

[EdM5]

For those who saw him race, no surprise really. And Berger was Senna's teammate.



https://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/20324109

[VisualEcho]

Originally Posted by 5.M0NSTER

Senna was special in a way that he operated the car not at the limit, but just a little beyond it. And unfortunately he paid the ultimate price for it.

That's not accurate. It was faulty engineering that killed him.

But I agree that he drove very dangerous cars beyond their limits in an era where those limits were quite high. I also agree that continuing to do so would have probably taken his life, if safety and car technology didn't significantly change before that happened.

For his era he was the GOAT, no question, but with todays cars and their wizardry, sorting everything out for the driver, I'm not so sure.

Senna was a driver, not a video game player. These new guys could never touch him in a real car where you had to do it all yourself.

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by VisualEcho

That's not accurate. It was faulty engineering that killed him.

But I agree that he drove very dangerous cars beyond their limits in an era where those limits were quite high. I also agree that continuing to do so would have probably taken his life, if safety and car technology didn't significantly change before that happened.

For his era he was the GOAT, no question, but with todays cars and their wizardry, sorting everything out for the driver, I'm not so sure.

Senna was a driver, not a video game player. These new guys could never touch him in a real car where you had to do it all yourself.

As someone said above : "He paid the ultimate price for it" , is such a BS and nonsense !
Faulty engineering that killed him ?
Positive , Senna's "Steering Column Failed" The Column broke !
"May he RIP"

[5.M0NSTER]

If you want to get technical about the reason that it would be a mechanical failure.

[M5Rick]

[QUOTE=///M Power-Belgium;26815314]As someone said above : "He paid the ultimate price for it" , is such a BS and nonsense !
Faulty engineering that killed him ?
Positive , Senna's "Steering Column Failed" The Column broke !
"May he RIP"

Before Senna set off I think there was some hurried action to re-weld the column or anything connected to it at the correct angle to Senna's liking, also the column appeared to 'float' up and down slightly in vids when he was qualifying.

[VisualEcho]

Originally Posted by 5.M0NSTER

If you want to get technical about the reason that it would be a mechanical failure.

It's an engineering failure because the column had been modified to suit him, it wasn't stock. I'm surprised you don't know this by heart, every real Senna fan does.

[5.M0NSTER]

Originally Posted by VisualEcho

It's an engineering failure because the column had been modified to suit him, it wasn't stock. I'm surprised you don't know this by heart, every real Senna fan does.

I guess we could discuss if any engineers were involved in the welding of the wheel, or analyzing what kind of materials and how much to use, or evaluate sheer strength after it was done. Or if the tech who did it screwed up. But I digress.

[///M Power-Belgium]

[QUOTE=M5theonlyone;26815393]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

As someone said above : "He paid the ultimate price for it" , is such a BS and nonsense !
Faulty engineering that killed him ?
Positive , Senna's "Steering Column Failed" The Column broke !
"May he RIP"

Before Senna set off I think there was some hurried action to re-weld the column at the correct angle to Senna's liking.

Exactly my friend . That's why it was "Faulty Engineering"
Was the weld seam bad ? Extreme pressure under a faulty angle ? That's the million dollar question..

[M5Rick]

[QUOTE=///M Power-Belgium;26815452]

Originally Posted by M5theonlyone

Exactly my friend . That's why it was "Faulty Engineering"
Was the weld seam bad ? Extreme pressure under a faulty angle ? That's the million dollar question..

As far as I know the wreck is still in San Marino/Italy,the authorities did not want to hand it back to Williams.

[///M Power-Belgium]

[QUOTE=M5theonlyone;26815510]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

As far as I know the wreck is still in San Marino/Italy,the authorities did not want to hand it back to Williams.

Williams removed the black box ASAP at the scene ...
Fault was Williams , unintentionally of course . As you said, the steering column mod. was requested by Senna .

The steering column broke at 307 km/h !
Follow the yellow button ...

[M5Rick]

[QUOTE=///M Power-Belgium;26815561][QUOTE=M5theonlyone;26815510]

Williams removed the black box ASAP at the scene ...
Fault was Williams , unintentionally of course . As you said, the steering column mod. was requested by Senna .

The steering column broke at 307 km/h !
Follow the yellow button ...

*I doubt even a driver of a 2020 F1 car with it's enhanced safety features would survive such an accident

[overcoil]

Michele Albereto as a witness stated he didn't know what kind of mechanical failure - the steering column breaking is not a done conclusion (I believe) since telemetry didn't ping that and the impact was centered on the steering and wheel element of the chassis.

The restart with the low rear tire pressure and low slung rear end was also viable but it was considered unlikely that someone with Senna's experience couldn't drive around that.

He should have walked away from that crash except for that one in a million chance the lateral link got away from the chassis.

[MKSixer]

Senna was my favorite driver. End of story. I ate, lived, and breathed motor racing with Senna. When he died, I finished the season and didn't watch Formula One for 2 years.

While everything is temporal and topical, good sportsmanship is not. If we are to all be honest, Senna, Prost, and Schumacher should be removed from the conversation based on this single attribute. And for those saying, "it's just what was done back then", where is the list of drivers who also employed such tactics?

There isn't one.

Saying MSC, SEN, and PRO are in the conversation for GOAT is condoning cheating and poor sportsmanship. Jim Clark didn't crash other drivers off the road. Niki Lauda didn't crash other drivers off the road.

Condoning this behavior is akin to showing approval for the student that cheated his/her way through college and graduated at the top of the class.

We all know it's wrong.

[xxTHIR13ENxx]

Originally Posted by VisualEcho

every real Senna fan does.

And I'll raise ya (in regards to this particular, unfortunate race):

• He did not sustain any broken bones in the crash
• Had the suspension gone 6" to the left or right, he would've been just fine
• He had an Austrian flag in his pocket to honor Roland Ratzenberger should he podium

My absolute idol. Holding back tears as I write this.
Honestly, any time anything Senna related comes up, I tear up...

Made our humble people PROUD!
R.I.P.

- Leo.

[///M Power-Belgium]

[QUOTE=M5theonlyone;26815601][QUOTE=///M Power-Belgium;26815561]

Originally Posted by M5theonlyone

Williams removed the black box ASAP at the scene ...
Fault was Williams , unintentionally of course . As you said, the steering column mod. was requested by Senna .

The steering column broke at 307 km/h !
Follow the yellow button ...

*I doubt even a driver of a 2020 F1 car with it's enhanced safety features would survive such an accident

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by MKSixer

Senna was my favorite driver. End of story. I ate, lived, and breathed motor racing with Senna. When he died, I finished the season and didn't watch Formula One for 2 years.

While everything is temporal and topical, good sportsmanship is not. If we are to all be honest, Senna, Prost, and Schumacher should be removed from the conversation based on this single attribute. And for those saying, "it's just what was done back then", where is the list of drivers who also employed such tactics?

There isn't one.

Saying MSC, SEN, and PRO are in the conversation for GOAT is condoning cheating and poor sportsmanship. Jim Clark didn't crash other drivers off the road. Niki Lauda didn't crash other drives off the road.

Condoning this behavior is akin to showing approval for the student that cheated his/her way through college and graduated at the top of the class.

We all know it's wrong.

I disagree that the three drivers you mention should be removed especially when someone like Berger puts forward a relevant acknowledgement of who should be seen as the greatest.
He's walked the walk, you haven't.

[EdM5]

Originally Posted by VisualEcho

That's not accurate.

But I agree that he drove very dangerous cars beyond their limits in an era where those limits were quite high. I also agree that continuing to do so would have probably taken his life, if safety and car technology didn't significantly change before that happened.

For his era he was the GOAT, no question, but with todays cars and their wizardry, sorting everything out for the driver, I'm not so sure.

Interesting. Because of fact that the 80s and 90s cars were so much harder to drive I always assumed that Senna would also destroy the current generation.

By the way, can't really think of any brutal Senna crashes other than the Mexico Quali flip and off course the collision with Prost in Suzuka 1990 which could have ended catastrophically. Berger, Piquet and Mansell were all involved heavier crashes.

Oh how I miss those glory days of F1. The greatest generation ever.