[stein_325i]

Originally Posted by Top Gear

"We have, I think, fans rather than customers," says Adrian van Hooydonk, BMW Group design chief. "That is certainly something we realise. We want to take them with us on this trip towards the future."

Perhaps a bleak future, if you've read below the Internet's fold. Comment sections rife with 'they've lost it!', 'garish!' and even 'bring back Chris Bangle!'. Those are just the nicer bits of the web.

We've long been wondering what on Earth has been going on at BMW of late, the latest 7 Series being less an executive limo, more a mobile powerplant for the world's largest grille. And then there's the X7.

BMW's design boss Domagoj Dukec is acutely aware of the noise surrounding the company's creations. "I'm reading social media and press, and I can see that some people are wondering where BMW is heading, but I can assure you that we have a clear vision about where we're going. We all love the brand."

Was he surprised by the sheer volume of criticism the company received?

"Not really," he tells Top Gear. "I've been in this business for over 20 years. You know how it is in design - everybody has an opinion. That's normal. If you want to create something that stands out, it must be distinguished and it has to be different."

OK. But is he absolutely adamant that they're plotting the right course? "You can create something beautiful, and we also have cars which are just pretty. But there are some customers that, if you want to reach them, you have to stand out. You have to create something that is not in-line; maybe not like an everyday car or an everyday product, but that's exactly the reason."

He points to BMW's heritage – recent heritage – and the Bangle-era BMWs which were "so criticised" at the time, now being looked back on with fondness, like the E60 5 Series. "That was breaking with everything so far [up to that point]," Dukec tells us.

"Now, this is a special time. It is different and distinguished [the new cars], I think this is something we are used to. It is not our goal to please everyone in the world. You can't make a design which pleases everyone. But you have to please your customers," he adds.

Ah yes, customers. Dukec pointed to a breakdown of BMW's base, and an interesting note turned up. The company reckons 70 per cent of its buyers are what they call 'elegant creators' (yeah, we know): business persons of success, who want the best but don't want to shout about it. Think BMW heartland stuff - 3, 5 and 7 Series. The remaining 30 per cent is made up of 'expressive performers' (really, we know); a group of buyers who are very 'self confident'. Things like the Z4, the 8 Series, and so on.

"Not all our products get the same critics," Dukec said. "You can see that on something as polarising like the kidneys on the 4 Series, 20 per cent of people are liking it. That fits to the type of customers we are targeting.

"Not all customers are going for the 4 Series," he added. Which means if you're unhappy with the grille and the 4 Series it comes attached to, you're unlikely – at least according to BMW – to be a prospective purchaser of said grille. And said 4 Series.

"It's impossible to create something where everybody will cheer and say 'this is the most beautiful car in the world'," Dukec said. (To which we say 'E38 7 Series'. Wonder where the group called 'nostalgic curmudgeons with no money' fits into BMW's fan base?)

Van Hooydonk had more to say. "It's really fantastic [if you have fans]. It means you have people that not just buy your products, but love what you do. Of course, if they love what you do, the minute you change it, they might have an issue with it.

"It comes with the territory," he added.

He stressed that the team's job 'was not easy'. "In 2021, we are making design decisions for products that will come into the market in 2024. And those will then remain in the market for seven or eight years, so beyond 2030. How will customers react in so many years from now?

"We don't know. What we do know is that if we don't move, we become a sitting duck. I guess the name of the game is to move enough so that the company thrives in the future, but not so much you lose contact with your fan base altogether," he added.

Original Article: BMW design boss: ‘it’s not our goal to please everyone’

Additional quote by Dukec from Auto Express:

Originally Posted by Auto Express

“Social media, we love and hate it for the same reasons, because it’s instant and fast, but it can be brutal,” Adrian van Hooydonk, BMW’s senior vice president of design explained. “We deal with it in the same way as customer clinics - we have them built into the design process.

“I never go to clinics because comments can be brutal and not enjoyable. I wait for the final global evaluation on feedback - and we do it with social media. We look and analyse the data, where does it come from? Is it loved? Which market did it come from? Social media is analysed as well, but we don't know if there are real customers behind those comments but we know they are real voices so we listen.”

[KennyFSU]

The sooner you learn "you can't please everyone" the happier you will be in life lol.

[SteveinArizona]

""Not really," he tells Top Gear. "I've been in this business for over 20 years. You know how it is in design - everybody has an opinion. That's normal. If you want to create something that stands out, it must be distinguished and it has to be different.""

One of the definitions of "distinguished" is notorious. So...using that definition...the new grills are both different and distinguished.

If he really meant what he said, the M3 would not have the Bugs Bunny grill. The M4 would but the M3 will not.

[GenXer]

Everyone? Try ANYONE.

Just because Lexus is doing it's scary looking front fascia does not mean BMW has to follow suit.

[stein_325i]

Originally Posted by SteveinArizona

""Not really," he tells Top Gear. "I've been in this business for over 20 years. You know how it is in design - everybody has an opinion. That's normal. If you want to create something that stands out, it must be distinguished and it has to be different.""

One of the definitions of "distinguished" is notorious. So...using that definition...the new grills are both different and distinguished.

If he really meant what he said, the M3 would not have the Bugs Bunny grill. The M4 would but the M3 will not.

Yeah Dukec's explanation of how the brand's buyers are divided into two different groups seemed very odd. And like you said, why graft the same face onto another car, which may fall in line with the other group who doesn't like the 4er. Honestly if they just kept the grill to the 4 and M4 alone, this would have solved so many problems/complaints.

[cfm56d7b]

BMW's design boss Domagoj Dukec' comments are understandable. There are so many ways to explain, justify, reflect, support, and even rationalize decisions (clearly made with the best intentions) which create loyal fans and disappointed detractors.

The only measure of success in this business are sales and profitability.

The rest is literally just noise as he referred to being "acutely aware of the noise surrounding the company's creations".

[AlexFL]

BMW has already achieved their main goal. They are in the news. Everybody is talking about their new and admittedly polarizing front design. That is indeed great news, because there is nothing worse for a car manufacturer than having a lineup of cars with a generic, boring and forgettable design. Btw, the interest for the G80/G82 at BMW Braman has been off the charts - what this means for the future sales numbers remains to be seen.

[cfm56d7b]

Originally Posted by AlexFL

BMW has already achieved the main goal. They are in the news. Everybody is talking about their new and admittedly polarizing front design. That is indeed great news, because there is nothing worse for a car manufacturer than having a lineup of cars with generic, boring and forgettable design. Btw, the interest for the G80/G82 at BMW Braman has been off the charts - what this means for the future sales numbers remains to be seen.

Indeed - very well said. There is no such thing as a bad publicity. Translated: never let a good crisis go to waste.

[383vett]

All he had to say was that because the cars are getting faster and faster, they needed to ingest more air. That might have flown.

[KoenG]

Dukec said. “You can see that on something as polarising like the kidneys on the 4 Series, 20 per cent of people are liking it. That fits to the type of customers we are targeting."

So, I thougth that 80% not liking the grill was a sign of failure, but they see it as a proof of success!

[seis-speed]

“Change the iconic kidney grilles”
-Nobody

[Nkr15]

So they assumed that 20% of their market was people who want to be loud and bold and that was 100% of M3/M4 buyers 🙄. Guess you have to be loud and bold if you want a manual transmission sedan.

[NickyC]

Originally Posted by 383vett

All he had to say was that because the cars are getting faster and faster, they needed to ingest more air. That might have flown.

Except when you cut away the bumpers, the air intake areas on the F80/82 are larger than the new abomination.

[wtwo3]

"He points to BMW’s heritage – recent heritage – and the Bangle-era BMWs which were “so criticised” at the time, now being looked back on with fondness, like the E60 5 Series."


I'm confused... is the E60 5 series looked back on fondly for its design? If so... that's news to me.

[KoenG]

Originally Posted by Nkr15

So they assumed that 20% of their market was people who want to be loud and bold and that was 100% of M3/M4 buyers 🙄. Guess you have to be loud and bold if you want a manual transmission sedan.

Yes, and there are several paradoxes in this article. I was convinced that they don't care for the appreciation of their fanbase, while they state now that the cars are designed to please their fanbase.

[zamboni]

https://www.behance.net/gallery/1018...ies-Coup-(2020)

This is the designer of the G22 coupe and BMW might have borrow a page for design of M3/M4. Cost saving was the main factor why BMW went with this design. We'll find out in a year and see how well the M product line is selling, at this point BMW doesn't if they broke all traditional design for M cars, no MT or DCT on competition, no analog gauges and manual hand brake etc. Can't believed the design was signed off by upper management's team.
20% doesn't represent all the loyal BMW fans.

[clutchdj]

IMO Bmw does not give a F.
So many f8x were sold and produced they are now focusing on that market that’s got 4x as many people... especially since new people have been hired. Must keep the board happy. Sales!

[KaptainKloss]

The only problem is that this time around they're marketing to the most financially screwed, morally bankrupt group of people, millennials. And I know because I am one.

Maybe not as morally bankrupt as boomers.

Good luck with those sales.

[thebmw]

Originally Posted by stein_325i

Original Article: https://www.topgear.com/car-news/bmw...e-everyone?amp

"We have, I think, fans rather than customers,"
Adrian van Hooydonk is not too smart. Customers are fans, fans are customers. Piss either of them off... Looks like he lives in a nice little bubble in Munich.

BMW's design boss Domagoj Dukec is acutely aware of the noise surrounding the company's creations. "I'm reading social media and press, and I can see that some people are wondering where BMW is heading, but I can assure you that we have a clear vision about where we're going. We all love the brand."
Dukec is a liar. He stated before that he is consciously doing away with tradition and BMW design cues. That is not someone who loves the brand. That is someone who thinks the brand's traditions are crap. He wants to blow them all up and come up with designs that make absolutely no sense, simply to give the middle finger to traditional BMW design. Don't believe me? Ask Frank Stephenson, the former head of BMW design and the designer of some of the most classic cars in automotive history.

"Not really," he tells Top Gear. "I've been in this business for over 20 years. You know how it is in design - everybody has an opinion. That's normal. If you want to create something that stands out, it must be distinguished and it has to be different."
Ducek is an idiot if he really thinks this. Virtually everyone and every journalist and every designer that has the balls to speak up has categorically panned the new 4 and the iX. That has literally never happened before to that extent with BMW (even when Bangle was there). Reason? The designs are non-symmetrical, non-congruent, lack cohesiveness, and lack an underlying theme. That is not progress at all. That is kindergarten scrapbook design.

OK. But is he absolutely adamant that they're plotting the right course? "You can create something beautiful, and we also have cars which are just pretty. But there are some customers that, if you want to reach them, you have to stand out. You have to create something that is not in-line; maybe not like an everyday car or an everyday product, but that's exactly the reason."
Are you kidding me? The 4 is beautiful? Man, his wife must look like an f'ing beaver. And not the beaver that's desirable! Now he says that the new 4 and iX are not an everyday car? Seriously, is this guy on drugs or really that stupid and arrogant (or both)?

He points to BMW's heritage – recent heritage – and the Bangle-era BMWs which were "so criticised" at the time, now being looked back on with fondness, like the E60 5 Series. "That was breaking with everything so far [up to that point]," Dukec tells us.
Dukec still doesn't get it. Bangle was criticized for being different. Dukec is criticized because he has made the 4 look like as schizophrenic as a Picasso. There are all types of shapes and sizes that don't line up or match. Dukec may literally be the male reincarnation of "Karen". So detached from reality and blames the customer for their "opinion".

"Now, this is a special time. It is different and distinguished [the new cars], I think this is something we are used to. It is not our goal to please everyone in the world. You can't make a design which pleases everyone. But you have to please your customers," he adds.
Ok Karen. Piss off everyone and blame it on them. Karen Dukec...

"Not all our products get the same critics," Dukec said. "You can see that on something as polarising like the kidneys on the 4 Series, 20 per cent of people are liking it. That fits to the type of customers we are targeting.
Hilarious. He literally said 80% of people hate his design and he is proud of it. He is a total KAREN! The last 4 series was probably loved by 80%+. I don't know a single person that did not like the E92 and that was "different" at the time!

"It's impossible to create something where everybody will cheer and say 'this is the most beautiful car in the world'," Dukec said. (To which we say 'E38 7 Series'. Wonder where the group called 'nostalgic curmudgeons with no money' fits into BMW's fan base?)
OMG, this guy is a designer? There are many cars that have been universally loved. He is such a shi*ty designer that he thinks that everyone hates all designs. No, they hate your designs, Karen Dukec.

Van Hooydonk had more to say. "It's really fantastic [if you have fans]. It means you have people that not just buy your products, but love what you do. Of course, if they love what you do, the minute you change it, they might have an issue with it.
No Van Hooy Lewis and the News, they have issues with cars that look like beavers having an orgasm.

[KoenG]

Originally Posted by zamboni

https://www.behance.net/gallery/1018...ies-Coup-(2020)

This is the designer of the G22 coupe and BMW might have borrow a page for design of M3/M4. Cost saving was the main factor why BMW went with this design. We'll find out in a year and see how well the M product line is selling, at this point BMW doesn't if they broke all traditional design for M cars, no MT or DCT on competition, no analog gauges and manual hand brake etc. Can't believed the design was signed off by upper management's team.
20% doesn't represent all the loyal BMW fans.

Yeah, nevertheless flabbergasted that they still believe that they nailed the split with the 80/20% (non)acceptance and that it exactly matches the borders of the fanbase. I already understood that those guys are arrogant, but this is really another level. Never seen this before in my entire live. They keep telling us who is the real fan and who's not.

[stein_325i]

Originally Posted by thebmw

No Van Hooy Lewis and the News, they have issues with cars that look like beavers having an orgasm.

I personally loved this post, not only because I agree with your opinion, but also because of how hilarious it was. I will forever refer to them as Karen Dukec and Van Hooy Lewis and the News now.

[snareman]

Dukec is seems to be like Steve Jobs. We don't care what our customers like. We will tell them what they like and they will like it.