[chassis]

Another one bites the dust. The Passat TDI wagon of the early 2000s was incredible in terms of utility and fuel economy.


https://www.reuters.com/business/aut...vs-2021-07-19/

[Burrcold]

The Passat wasn't a great car, and they barely refreshed it for almost 10 years (the model we get in North America anyways), so it's not surprising. There are rumors that the Arteon will be discontinued in North America as well. That will leave the Jetta and GTi/R models of the Golf as their only cars. It sucks that SUV's will be the only option, but much like the manual transmission, if nobody is buying them they are going to stop selling them.

[stein_325i]

Not surprised. Other than the Golf/GTI, VW has been a snoozefest of cars for close to a decade. The Passat and Jetta died for me a long time ago with the introduction of the NA/Chinese market models.

[Germanauto]

Originally Posted by stein_325i

Not surprised. Other than the Golf/GTI, VW has been a snoozefest of cars for close to a decade. The Passat and Jetta died for me a long time ago with the introduction of the NA/Chinese market models.

Many would argue that the Jetta lost its way with the 6th gen launched in 2010. That car had very visible cost-cutting throughout.

[stein_325i]

Originally Posted by Germanauto

Many would argue that the Jetta lost its way with the 6th gen launched in 2010. That car had very visible cost-cutting throughout.

Yes the MK6 Jetta and NMS Passat were the death of what the brand stood for in the US. While these models did increase North American sales, like you said, they had some very obvious and atrocious cost cutting, taking VW down from a once "Premium" brand to now "Mainstream." And despite their sales increases, these were only temporary.

During the "Voltswagen" scandal, an interesting article from Road and Track came out, analyzing how VW has failed to understand the US market, claiming, "VW has seemingly tried everything to crack the U.S. market—except building a segment-leading car." Overall it discusses the ups and downs (before and after Dieselgate) as well as how VW's strives towards US sales has both positively and negatively effected them, along with their introduction of the iD4. Overall, I found many of their points made easily agreeable and interesting.

Forget "Voltswagen." VW's Real Problem Is Misunderstanding the U.S. Market.

[chassis]

You all are talking about sedans, correct?

The Touareg was outstanding, without question. Over the years it had a great variety of diesel and gas engines, and was both comfortable and sporty. A less expensive X5. Platform shared with the Cayenne so it needed to have good bones, which it did.

The current Tiguan is outstanding. Loaded up with SEL Premium R-Line is a near luxury vehicle. For a while VW included a 6 year warranty and offered full warranty with an aftermarket engine tune. Lots to like.

The Atlas has done well. Not my cup of tea, mommywagon that it is, but it sells well.

[Burrcold]

Originally Posted by chassis

You all are talking about sedans, correct?

The Touareg was outstanding, without question. Over the years it had a great variety of diesel and gas engines, and was both comfortable and sporty. A less expensive X5. Platform shared with the Cayenne so it needed to have good bones, which it did.

The current Tiguan is outstanding. Loaded up with SEL Premium R-Line is a near luxury vehicle. For a while VW included a 6 year warranty and offered full warranty with an aftermarket engine tune. Lots to like.

The Atlas has done well. Not my cup of tea, mommywagon that it is, but it sells well.

I had a Tiguan SEL with the R Line package...near luxury? Meh not quite. It was also slow as shit.

[stein_325i]

Originally Posted by chassis

You all are talking about sedans, correct?

The Touareg was outstanding, without question. Over the years it had a great variety of diesel and gas engines, and was both comfortable and sporty. A less expensive X5. Platform shared with the Cayenne so it needed to have good bones, which it did.

The current Tiguan is outstanding. Loaded up with SEL Premium R-Line is a near luxury vehicle. For a while VW included a 6 year warranty and offered full warranty with an aftermarket engine tune. Lots to like.

The Atlas has done well. Not my cup of tea, mommywagon that it is, but it sells well.

This is just my opinion, but mainly everything in their lineup at the moment besides their halo children the GTI/GLI/R. It began with the cheapened out sedans (NMS Passat, MK6 Jetta). The last Touareg we got in the US was from the premium era of VW and a much better vehicle, although very costly (likely why it didn't sell).

The Atlas feels pretty much like an NMS Passat but in SUV form (aka bland and cheap in feeling). The Tiguan is better and a good looker, but painfully slow (takes over 9-seconds for 60, high 9's in rolling starts, before loaded with passengers), and even for those who don't care about speed it just can't get out of its own way. I also don't find it near luxury, both the Hyundai Tucson and Mazda CX-5 have much more luxurious interiors in the class.

Like the article, I believe VW just doesn't have a class-leading vehicle, or an interesting vehicle period besides the GTI/GLI/R. They don't really bring anything to the table. Even what was suppose to be what VW touts as their "revolutionary EV" the iD4, is a huge disappointment. The things VW was once known for, no longer apply (other than maybe reliability ) to most if not all of their vehicles. Even on the new GTI and iD4 they've managed to screw up the infotainment and ergonomics (once a VW strong suit), just look at the iD4's window switches and HVAC controls, its a huge mess.

I believe Mazda is doing what VW did back in the day in making premium, almost Germanic feeling and driving vehicles but with gorgeous and sleek styling and added Japanese reliability and quality. And the Koreans are producing hit after hit of value packed sedans and SUV's from the K5 to the Telluride which are easily superior to their VW competition. VW just does not appeal to me at all like it use to.

[Burrcold]

Originally Posted by stein_325i

This is just my opinion, but mainly everything in their lineup at the moment besides their halo children the GTI/GLI/R. It began with the cheapened out sedans (NMS Passat, MK6 Jetta). The last Touareg we got in the US was from the premium era of VW and a much better vehicle, although very costly (likely why it didn't sell).

The Atlas feels pretty much like an NMS Passat but in SUV form (aka bland and cheap in feeling). The Tiguan is better and a good looker, but painfully slow (takes over 9-seconds for 60, high 9's in rolling starts, before loaded with passengers), and even for those who don't care about speed it just can't get out of its own way. I also don't find it near luxury, both the Hyundai Tucson and Mazda CX-5 have much more luxurious interiors in the class.

Like the article, I believe VW just doesn't have a class-leading vehicle, or an interesting vehicle period besides the GTI/GLI/R. They don't really bring anything to the table. Even what was suppose to be what VW touts as their "revolutionary EV" the iD4, is a huge disappointment. The things VW was once known for, no longer apply (other than maybe reliability ) to most if not all of their vehicles. Even on the new GTI and iD4 they've managed to screw up the infotainment and ergonomics (once a VW strong suit), just look at the iD4's window switches and HVAC controls, its a huge mess.

I believe Mazda is doing what VW did back in the day in making premium, almost Germanic feeling and driving vehicles but with gorgeous and sleek styling and added Japanese reliability and quality. And the Koreans are producing hit after hit of value packed sedans and SUV's from the K5 to the Telluride which are easily superior to their VW competition. VW just does not appeal to me at all like it use to.

Mazda is doing some really good things, it's a shame that they aren't selling like they should be. My wife went from a CX-9 to the Atlas and aside from the extra cargo room, it was a turd. We regretted getting the Atlas almost immediately. She is happy in the Q7 now (obviously it's on the better end of the VAG spectrum).

[ASAP]

I am gonna guess few will cry... like someone said... the American passat is not the same car as the European one... it's an extreme example of cost cutting. The Arteon is the premium one and the price of one necessitates them to have 10k rebates... so VW hasn't cracked this market almost at all.

Oh and the engine choices on these cars... jesus... you have an Accord 2.0T available... who in the world would choose a Passat instead?

[eljay]

Well, you could argue Jetta has gotten nearly as big as Passat from two gens ago, so with Arteon being the luxury flagship, you don't need another bland sedan.
But yes the market in that segment is now saturated with nice offerings from Korea and Japan, so the German brand for the people has it tough.

But yes, every automaker is making space on their production lines for SUVs, CUVs. Sad.
For example, Volvo in Europe had a big clearout sale of V40 a couple of years ago and paused the model to make room for XC40 that was selling like hot dogs at a ball game.

[RM7]

The last time I rented one of those, I don't remember which it was, a Passat or Jetta, I was not impressed one bit. It seemed significantly cheapened out (realizing that rental companies get some pretty cheap stuff, but it was optioned decently) and the driving dynamics seemed very poor.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by stein_325i

Yes the MK6 Jetta and NMS Passat were the death of what the brand stood for in the US. While these models did increase North American sales, like you said, they had some very obvious and atrocious cost cutting, taking VW down from a once "Premium" brand to now "Mainstream." And despite their sales increases, these were only temporary.

During the "Voltswagen" scandal, an interesting article from Road and Track came out, analyzing how VW has failed to understand the US market, claiming, "VW has seemingly tried everything to crack the U.S. market—except building a segment-leading car." Overall it discusses the ups and downs (before and after Dieselgate) as well as how VW's strives towards US sales has both positively and negatively effected them, along with their introduction of the iD4. Overall, I found many of their points made easily agreeable and interesting.

Forget "Voltswagen." VW's Real Problem Is Misunderstanding the U.S. Market.

Wait, what? Volkswagen (cough cough, the "People's Car") was a premium brand? When exactly?

Serious question.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by stein_325i

This is just my opinion, but mainly everything in their lineup at the moment besides their halo children the GTI/GLI/R. It began with the cheapened out sedans (NMS Passat, MK6 Jetta). The last Touareg we got in the US was from the premium era of VW and a much better vehicle, although very costly (likely why it didn't sell).

The Atlas feels pretty much like an NMS Passat but in SUV form (aka bland and cheap in feeling). The Tiguan is better and a good looker, but painfully slow (takes over 9-seconds for 60, high 9's in rolling starts, before loaded with passengers), and even for those who don't care about speed it just can't get out of its own way. I also don't find it near luxury, both the Hyundai Tucson and Mazda CX-5 have much more luxurious interiors in the class.

Like the article, I believe VW just doesn't have a class-leading vehicle, or an interesting vehicle period besides the GTI/GLI/R. They don't really bring anything to the table. Even what was suppose to be what VW touts as their "revolutionary EV" the iD4, is a huge disappointment. The things VW was once known for, no longer apply (other than maybe reliability ) to most if not all of their vehicles. Even on the new GTI and iD4 they've managed to screw up the infotainment and ergonomics (once a VW strong suit), just look at the iD4's window switches and HVAC controls, its a huge mess.

I believe Mazda is doing what VW did back in the day in making premium, almost Germanic feeling and driving vehicles but with gorgeous and sleek styling and added Japanese reliability and quality. And the Koreans are producing hit after hit of value packed sedans and SUV's from the K5 to the Telluride which are easily superior to their VW competition. VW just does not appeal to me at all like it use to.

I think this was inevitable once VW switched to its MQB platform technique. To make some 10 to 15 different models from one modular chassis is going to lead to mediocracy. Unfortunately it's led the entire industry to mediocracy as well to stay price competitive.

[stein_325i]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

Wait, what? Volkswagen (cough cough, the "Peoples Car") was a premium brand? When exactly.

Serious question.

More premium in the realm of mainstream vehicles. Not the level of luxury, but they weren't bargains for their classes, especially the Toureg. The Passat and Jetta were typically pricier and more premium in their feel and quality compared to the rest of the class, hence when I say "premium" its more equivalent to the likes of say, Buick, something a little better than mainstream, but not luxury.

VW's Passat started at $23k and could be optioned to $37k… in 2008. That's the same starting price as today's cheaper built and quality NMS Passat.

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a1...ark-in-the-us/

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by Burrcold

Mazda is doing some really good things, it's a shame that they aren't selling like they should be. My wife went from a CX-9 to the Atlas and aside from the extra cargo room, it was a turd. We regretted getting the Atlas almost immediately. She is happy in the Q7 now (obviously it's on the better end of the VAG spectrum).

Agree with Mazda. Three years ago a good friend was in the market to replace her 2003 POS Subaru Forester. She was going to replace it with another Forester. I talked her into a real car by suggesting the 2018 CX-5. She asked me why switch to a Mazda, and I simply said, "Because Mazda is the BMW of the Japanese car industry". Being she had bought her son a very ragged out E46 (at 270,000 miles) several years prior and loved the way the E46 drove, she never doubted my suggestion. She literally leased the CX-5 sight unseen (other than looking at it on the internet). I set the lease up at the dealer, she came in later and signed the paperwork. She now has since bought the CX-5 and is sitting on $10K in equity.

The interior/exterior styling and build quality the Mazda gives at the price point is simply the best in class.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by stein_325i

More premium in the realm of mainstream vehicles. Not the level of luxury, but they weren't bargains for their classes, especially the Toureg. The Passat and Jetta were typically pricier and more premium in their feel and quality compared to the rest of the class, hence when I say "premium" its more equivalent to the likes of say, Buick, something a little better than mainstream, but not luxury.

VW's Passat started at $23k and could be optioned to $37k… in 2008. That's the same starting price as today's cheaper built and quality NMS Passat.

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a1...ark-in-the-us/

Fair enough. I'll admit I really haven't followed VW much by model comparison in the past 25 years or so, only more within the industry POV. To me VW has always been a low-cost cheap-ass car. Even when the Rabbit and the GTI version debuted they were great drivers, but cheap. I've always viewed Audi as the premium brand of VAG; but I remember when Audis were POS too.

My nephew has a 2015 (?) Passat that I've seen once a few years ago. I think he got it out the door for $16K (guessing as I don't remember the exact number). I thought for the content it offered it was a decent buy for the price. He liked the way it drove. He still has it.

[The Libertine]

Originally Posted by Germanauto

Many would argue that the Jetta lost its way with the 6th gen launched in 2010. That car had very visible cost-cutting throughout.

Cost-cutting has really turned the brand into a disappointment for me.

[Fritzer]

Dear Car Industry,

Wagons are better than SUVs. American consumers are dumb they don't know what they want. Don't listen to them. Be the boot the American consumer needs, but not the one it deserves.