[razor488]

I am on the fence about buying an IX and I am curious how well the self driving feature works compared to Tesla and Supercruise.

I have seen conflicting information about when BMW is going to roll out level 3 self-driving.

Also, what is the difference between the base driver assist and purchasing the extra option?

Car and Driver says 2025 - https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a3...ing-tech-2025/

This article says "shortly" - https://electricvehicleweb.com/bmw-i...omous-driving/

[Bird~Dawg]

Originally Posted by razor488

I am on the fence about buying an IX and I am curious how well the self driving feature works compared to Tesla and Supercruise.

I have seen conflicting information about when BMW is going to roll out level 3 self-driving.

Also, what is the difference between the base driver assist and purchasing the extra option?

Car and Driver says 2025 - https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a3...ing-tech-2025/

This article says "shortly" - https://electricvehicleweb.com/bmw-i...omous-driving/

The Car & Driver article talks about the next gen system coming in 2025 and also acknowledges the current generation level 3 system in the IX and upcoming new 7 series. The other article talks about when the current gen system's capabilities will be activated. So, that puts the current generation level 3 activation at "soon" and the next gen tech at "2025" - no conflict. I haven't seen any comparisons of BMW's tech to SuperCruise or others, but most reviewers have very high praise for the Cadillac system.

[BimmerBahn]

Originally Posted by razor488

I am on the fence about buying an IX and I am curious how well the self driving feature works compared to Tesla and Supercruise.

I have seen conflicting information about when BMW is going to roll out level 3 self-driving.

Also, what is the difference between the base driver assist and purchasing the extra option?

Car and Driver says 2025 - https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a3...ing-tech-2025/

This article says "shortly" - https://electricvehicleweb.com/bmw-i...omous-driving/

The current driver assistance in BMW is better compared to Tesla FSD. The feature gap (Summons and NAV on AP) isn't all that important, IMO... my 2019 X5 is worlds better on the highway with ACC+lane keep/lane change vs FSD, which has all sorts of problems with phantom braking and it just doesn't handle things as fluid as BMW.

DA+ gives you ACC+Stop/Go, Traffic Jam assist, etc. When L3 launches is probably a few years out..maybe...and I doubt it will be feature complete level 3 so it wont be full autonomy (i.e. the car is actually driving).... autonomous driving is an _extremely_ hard problem to solve, hence it's a bunch of incremental improvements vs just a bump from L1 to L2 to L3, etc.

I wouldn't buy _any_ vehicle today with the expectation that it will support full (L3+) autonomy in the next several years.

[hugo_nz]

BMWs head of R&D said that they will enable L3 on the iX via an OTA update in 2022.

[BimmerBahn]

Originally Posted by hugo_nz

BMWs head of R&D said that they will enable L3 on the iX via an OTA update in 2022.

I’ll believe it when I see it. Audi has L3 and had to scrap it in the A8 because the German regulators wouldn’t certify it a couple years ago….and BMW will have to get certification in every country it wants to enable it in. If they launch SAE Level 3 autonomy before 2025, I’ll be pleasantly surprised

[ggalanis]

Originally Posted by BimmerBahn

I wouldn't buy _any_ vehicle today with the expectation that it will support full (L3+) autonomy in the next several years.

THIS.

[razor488]

I can't decide if I should pull the trigger on the IX or wait until 2025 to see what the landscape looks like then. I tend to keep cars quite a while - 6+ years

[sahajesh]

Originally Posted by razor488

I can't decide if I should pull the trigger on the IX or wait until 2025 to see what the landscape looks like then. I tend to keep cars quite a while - 6+ years

Wait - year 1 quality/component supply, Range Rover and their Sport will be out in 2024 as BEV.

[Paladin1]

Originally Posted by sahajesh

Wait - year 1 quality/component supply, Range Rover and their Sport will be out in 2024 as BEV.

Likely a great addition to the RR line. However. No good estimates on starting price, but working from their PHEV, likely north of $105-$110k. Well north. Range Rover is famous (infamous?), like Porsche, of tacking on virtually everything as an option (want wheels with that?), so getting it optioned out to semi-equivalent competitors (like the iX or EQS), will almost certainly be in the $125k-$150k range, with a fully topped-out model approaching or exceeding $200k if history is a guide. And again, probably a great car (putting aside RR's history of being at the bottom of reliability charts - all-electric could actually improve that), but you pays yer money and you takes yer choice. Also intriguing is that they may offer a hydrogen BEV model in the almost-near future - though undoubtedly at a price beyond belief. And on a peripheral note, other high $$$ "SUV" manufacturers, a la Bentley (PHEV now, BEV soon) and Rolls, are getting into the electrification business, performing the wondrous magic of turning electricity into money :

https://www.rolls-roycemotorcars.com...m/spectre.html

[sahajesh]

Originally Posted by Paladin1

Likely a great addition to the RR line. However. No good estimates on starting price, but working from their PHEV, likely north of $105-$110k. Well north. Range Rover is famous (infamous?), like Porsche, of tacking on virtually everything as an option (want wheels with that?), so getting it optioned out to semi-equivalent competitors (like the iX or EQS), will almost certainly be in the $125k-$150k range, with a fully topped-out model approaching or exceeding $200k if history is a guide. And again, probably a great car (putting aside RR's history of being at the bottom of reliability charts - all-electric could actually improve that), but you pays yer money and you takes yer choice. Also intriguing is that they may offer a hydrogen BEV model in the almost-near future - though undoubtedly at a price beyond belief. And on a peripheral note, other high $$$ "SUV" manufacturers, a la Bentley (PHEV now, BEV soon) and Rolls, are getting into the electrification business, performing the wondrous magic of turning electricity into money :

https://www.rolls-roycemotorcars.com...m/spectre.html

I'll definitely check out the RRS and by the time that is out, L3 may be a reality (to get me back on topic).

Don't have any faith in BMW ability/willingness to do much by way of updates.

[hugo_nz]

Originally Posted by sahajesh

I'll definitely check out the RRS and by the time that is out, L3 may be a reality (to get me back on topic).

Don't have any faith in BMW ability/willingness to do much by way of updates.

The entire principle of iDrive8 and the new modular platform is that functions can be added or improved over the air. BMW has been doing this for years now with Connected Drive. Audi, on the other hand, has tried and failed miserably with their OTA implementation. I wouldn’t be so quick to discount BMWs ability…

[sahajesh]

Originally Posted by hugo_nz

The entire principle of iDrive8 and the new modular platform is that functions can be added or improved over the air. BMW has been doing this for years now with Connected Drive. Audi, on the other hand, has tried and failed miserably with their OTA implementation. I wouldn’t be so quick to discount BMWs ability…

Agree iDrive 7 is better but there are plenty of stories of people here who haven't received updates.

BMW may be better than some but still has a long way to go. Maybe with iD8 they will provide more frequent updates with additional M functionality.

[Paladin1]

Originally Posted by hugo_nz

The entire principle of iDrive8 and the new modular platform is that functions can be added or improved over the air. BMW has been doing this for years now with Connected Drive. Audi, on the other hand, has tried and failed miserably with their OTA implementation. I wouldn’t be so quick to discount BMWs ability…

My last ID7 OTA update a few days ago actually went rather well on two different X5s, so they're getting the hang of it (downloads on phone, transfers to car) - still just seems to be random releases though, and the latest update is always one iteration behind.

[BimmerBahn]

Originally Posted by Paladin1

My last ID7 OTA update a few days ago actually went rather well on two different X5s, so they're getting the hang of it (downloads on phone, transfers to car) - still just seems to be random releases though, and the latest update is always one iteration behind.

Agreed! It would be nice if you could initiate directly from the vehicle, using your home wifi vs your cellphone….. baby steps

[PhilD]

Originally Posted by Paladin1

Likely a great addition to the RR line. However. No good estimates on starting price, but working from their PHEV, likely north of $105-$110k. Well north. Range Rover is famous (infamous?), like Porsche, of tacking on virtually everything as an option (want wheels with that?), so getting it optioned out to semi-equivalent competitors (like the iX or EQS), will almost certainly be in the $125k-$150k range, with a fully topped-out model approaching or exceeding $200k if history is a guide. And again, probably a great car (putting aside RR's history of being at the bottom of reliability charts - all-electric could actually improve that), but you pays yer money and you takes yer choice. Also intriguing is that they may offer a hydrogen BEV model in the almost-near future - though undoubtedly at a price beyond belief. And on a peripheral note, other high $$$ "SUV" manufacturers, a la Bentley (PHEV now, BEV soon) and Rolls, are getting into the electrification business, performing the wondrous magic of turning electricity into money :

https://www.rolls-roycemotorcars.com...m/spectre.html

I discovered this when we were looking at a Defender. So many options *should* come as standard but don’t and before you know it, you’ve added £25k of options. It’s ridiculous. Especially when you’re looking at PCP contracts where the cost of options is spread out over the 3/4 lease period in full, whereas included options are considered part of the value of the car. The iX is cheaper in terms of monthly payments than a Land Rover that costs £20k more just because of how the options are structured.

That out of the way, I’d be wary about getting a Range Rover electric vehicle. It’s concerning that it’s 2022 and they still haven’t released a full electric model and their cars have next to no driving tech as far as I can tell (I think their lane ‘assist’ just warns you if you’re leaving the lane, it doesn’t keep you in it). It felt really out of touch when they released the new Range Rover a couple of months ago and didn’t include a full electric vehicle in there. It feels like they’ve had their head in the sands and only announced the whole “oh we’ll have like 4 full electric vehicles by 2026” as a reaction to the UK law that will ban the sale of non hybrid or electrics by 2030.

I think they have next to no experience of full electric vehicles and are going to be playing catch up so I’d be wary of buying a first gen RR electric vehicle in 2024 when other manufacturers like BMW have got over a decade of experience building and designing full electric vehicles.

[razor488]

Is it reasonable to have an expectation that BMW is going to roll out a software update to make the IX compete with GM Super Cruise or is that wishful thinking? I would like a hands free option like Tesla and GM have.

[BimmerBahn]

Originally Posted by razor488

Is it reasonable to have an expectation that BMW is going to roll out a software update to make the IX compete with GM Super Cruise or is that wishful thinking? I would like a hands free option like Tesla and GM have.

GM SuperCruise and Tesla FSD is SAE Level 2, essentially the same as what's currently available in the iX today. BMW has stated the iX will get an OTA update to take the ADAS to SAE Level 3.... they said, soon.... we shall see.

[ggalanis]

Originally Posted by razor488

Is it reasonable to have an expectation that BMW is going to roll out a software update to make the IX compete with GM Super Cruise or is that wishful thinking? I would like a hands free option like Tesla and GM have.

Tesla does NOT have a hands free option.

[ggalanis]

Originally Posted by razor488

Is it reasonable to have an expectation that BMW is going to roll out a software update to make the IX compete with GM Super Cruise or is that wishful thinking? I would like a hands free option like Tesla and GM have.

BMW since at least 2019 offers hands off cruise control when you are in slow moving traffic on an expressway. It works decently and makes hitting a traffic jam much less of a pain in the butt. However you need to be paying attention to the road or else it deactivates.

To specifically answer your question, is it reasonable to expect it? It is more like wishful thinking for this to happen anytime soon (which is why they are not giving a firm date). Even if they do roll it out, it will be like their current driver assistance systems and will be very conservative and will deactivate itself at the slightest inconvenience. Although that sounds bad, it is the safe way of doing things and my personal preference over the car deciding things when it is unsure.

[Paladin1]

Level 3 technology depends not only on auto manufacturers but the infrastructure on which their products run, which is several decades behind the technology march for autos. Tesla is attempting to overcome that by depending on camera/video technology, but that has problems of its own, and even Tesla is now reconsidering LIDAR/RADAR adjuncts as well. Bottom line is that true L3 driving is likely more than a decade ahead of us for any cars, likely more, until roads, bridges, lights, signs, fences, curbs, barriers, etc. catch up.

As an aside, and more in the FYI category, the manufacture of computer chips that make all of this technology go, is crucially dependent on the element neon, a rare gas used in etching printed circuits. And half of the global supply of this element was formerly produced in the city of Mariupol, Ukraine. Virtually all of the remainder is produced in China. And Russia. As a point of interest.

[bmwix50]

@hugo_nz where did you get the info, that

BMWs head of R&D said that they will enable L3 on the iX via an OTA update in 2022.

I hope it's still valid. If yes, you have more information in which countries? Europe? Germany?

[razor488]

Originally Posted by bmwix50

@hugo_nz where did you get the info, that


I hope it's still valid. If yes, you have more information in which countries? Europe? Germany?

https://electricvehicleweb.com/bmw-i...omous-driving/

From January