[M2CLBB437M]

Has anyone driven the original X3M comp and the LCI back to back? I’d like to know what I’m missing. I’ve had mine since Nov 2019 and while it is fine as a fast daily hack, never sets me alight. The ride is fine FWIW. The handling is a little intent tho good enough and the engine (for me) characterless. It also never feels truly quick. I’m wondering if there is a remap (not one of the crazy ones) just to move the torque curve to where it is on the LCI (ie slightly lower down). Any thoughts?

[Tricky401]

If your going to remap it and void warranty you should just remap it properly with a decent gain map rather than trying to replicate the lci

[GP0256]

Originally Posted by Tricky401

If your going to remap it and void warranty you should just remap it properly with a decent gain map rather than trying to replicate the lci

Or pay $1300, do the Dinan and still have a warranty

[beammeupscottie]

One thing I can say about 2020 X3M Comp vs 2022 LCI is the lag has been eliminated. Haven't gone past break in mileage yet to push it but so far the ride is improved also. Perhaps dampening adjusted? Not sure but when in sport plus; suspension doesn't seem as jarring over bumps yet it's still super tight. You can definitely feel a difference right off. 2 cents.

[chimp]

I have a 2021 and a 2022 X4MC. The 2022 interior is more refined. Feels more luxurious. The same goes for the ride. The 2022 simply feels more put together in terms of power delivery and handling. I did switch to 265/295 Michelin Pilot All Season 4's on both. In a weird way though, I sometimes miss the relatively more rawness of the 2021. Reminds me of my F82 in a good, nostalgic way more than the 2022. I can't say either X4MC has not felt quick enough. I assume you have programmed the M1/M2 buttons with more aggressive settings than the default. Or maybe you had something ridiculously quick before but not quick is something I haven't heard much when describing these cars.

[Transfer]

Originally Posted by beammeupscottie

One thing I can say about 2020 X3M Comp vs 2022 LCI is the lag has been eliminated. Haven't gone past break in mileage yet to push it but so far the ride is improved also. Perhaps dampening adjusted? Not sure but when in sport plus; suspension doesn't seem as jarring over bumps yet it's still super tight. You can definitely feel a difference right off. 2 cents.

You mean the NA 4 cylinder feeling that exists below 3k RPMs is improved? Throttle response is great all the time but power below 3k around town is just yuck. I thought that would take a major hardware change to fix.

[Kevin_The_Clean1]

Originally Posted by Transfer

You mean the NA 4 cylinder feeling that exists below 3k RPMs is improved? Throttle response is great all the time but power below 3k around town is just yuck. I thought that would take a major hardware change to fix.

I wonder if the new DINAN software with the extra 77 lbs/ft of torque at low RPM's & a much crisper throttle response can help alleviate most of this. It's only for the 2020 MY S58 though.

[beammeupscottie]

Originally Posted by Transfer

You mean the NA 4 cylinder feeling that exists below 3k RPMs is improved? Throttle response is great all the time but power below 3k around town is just yuck. I thought that would take a major hardware change to fix.

I mean from a rolling stop there used to be this lag once you step on the gas…that lag has been eliminated on the LCI. That was indeed annoying on the pre LCI.

[BrockDM]

Originally Posted by beammeupscottie

I mean from a rolling stop there used to be this lag once you step on the gas…that lag has been eliminated on the LCI. That was indeed annoying on the pre LCI.

I thought I was crazy but I'm glad others have noticed this too. Even in Sport Plus I get terrible input delay and lag at very low speeds rolling back onto the throttle. I wonder if they can update pre LCI to the same maps.

[CSBM5]

Originally Posted by Transfer

You mean the NA 4 cylinder feeling that exists below 3k RPMs is improved? Throttle response is great all the time but power below 3k around town is just yuck. I thought that would take a major hardware change to fix.

Originally Posted by beammeupscottie

I mean from a rolling stop there used to be this lag once you step on the gas…that lag has been eliminated on the LCI. That was indeed annoying on the pre LCI.

It's still there on a 2022 X4M comp. I spent about 45min driving a 2022 X4MC from BMWNA yesterday at the MX1 event. This is my first experience with the S58, and I noticed a fair amount of what feels like pure turbo lag from the old days below maybe 2.5k-3k rpms. After a few experiences from a pure standing stop or a ~10-15mph roll and demanding large/maximum acceleration, I accessed the settings and put the engine in sport plus (or whatever the highest mode is called, can't remember now). I then did some full throttle launches from a stop (no brake torque wind up, just nail the throttle from a stop), and it indeed has a substantial lag off idle up until maybe 3k or so...and then SOB it's like hitting an N2O switch or something. What a beast of an engine!

I was also shifting manually to make sure it was in 1st gear around the 10mph roll corner...sort of the situation where you're pulling out into traffic and demand immediate acceleration, but that still wasn't sufficient to eliminate the lag of demand request vs torque delivered in those situations. The S58 clearly has turbo lag at low rpms.

I guess as many sources have discussed, along with dyno charts, etc, it's simply the design of the S58 and the large turbos needed to create over 500hp from 183 in^3 (which is still so hard to fathom we can buy something like this, stock, from a car maker, but I'm old so...). Perhaps a small N2O system would actually be interesting...have an N2O controller set to switch off as soon as major boost arrives, which will be almost right away since N2O really lights off a turbine since it generates instant hp/heat. One jetted for only ~50hp would likely do the trick, and with its low flow rate and short duration (~1 second) a small tank would suffice.

Anyway, really fun SUV! My wife and I enjoyed everything else about the vehicle. I was especially impressed with how well the tail of the car (rear contact patches) felt connected to me through the seat -- really nice feeling that I've never experienced in an "SUV" of any sort before. The handling dynamics were very surprising for such a large and heavy vehicle. Looking out in the future we'll need to submit an order for one to get the options and color desired (i.e. moonroof delete, red), but now I'd like to drive a non-comp model too along with researching suspension differences between the two.

[JamRWS6]

I'm speculating the "lag" on the LCI being experienced is more a combination of the electronic nannies keeping you in one piece. Anyone tried Sport Plus, D3/S3, and MDM or traction off? For example, in "Track Mode" with everything off I'm assuming this would prevent any lag.

There is definitely "lag" in other drive modes - I would experiment but only have 300 miles right now on the car. Seems to act very similar to my F80 where once you turn everything off it is a completely different animal.

[Transfer]

The engine definitely has boost threshold turbo lag below 3k rpms. That's the hardware and with traction control off it's not really different. 3k+ though is holy shit. Just don't expect much below that other than great throttle response. I don't see how LCI could have tuned it significantly differently.

[robopp]

Originally Posted by Transfer

You mean the NA 4 cylinder feeling that exists below 3k RPMs is improved? Throttle response is great all the time but power below 3k around town is just yuck. I thought that would take a major hardware change to fix.

I can't wrap my head around these comments. My '20 X3MC pulls so hard down low in sport+. If you're not in sport+, sure, but that's the point of the various configurations.

[CSBM5]

Originally Posted by Transfer

The engine definitely has boost threshold turbo lag below 3k rpms. That's the hardware and with traction control off it's not really different. 3k+ though is holy shit. Just don't expect much below that other than great throttle response. I don't see how LCI could have tuned it significantly differently.

Yeah, it's not DSC intervening at all. Put the car in manual mode and say 4th gear, slow speed until revs are at say 2000 and open the throttle hard. The S58 is just not generating lots of torque until revs reach about 3k rpms and then it starts to explode. Or you can do like one of the reviewers did with the G80 comp, and put it manual mode and 6th or 7th gear at 2k rpms and floor it...and wait, and wait for rpms to climb enough to spin the turbos fast enough to start generating significant boost.

[JamRWS6]

Originally Posted by CSBM5

Yeah, it's not DSC intervening at all. Put the car in manual mode and say 4th gear, slow speed until revs are at say 2000 and open the throttle hard. The S58 is just not generating lots of torque until revs reach about 3k rpms and then it starts to explode. Or you can do like one of the reviewers did with the G80 comp, and put it manual mode and 6th or 7th gear at 2k rpms and floor it...and wait, and wait for rpms to climb enough to spin the turbos fast enough to start generating significant boost.

6th or 7th gear is a completely different story- any ICE vehicle isn't going to be able to be responsive there given the gearing.

Traction management and engine throttle mapping is significantly altered with the different engine response setting, traction setting, and transmission settings. Know this has been debated ad nauseaum but would be good to see LCI vs Pre-LCI on the same Dyno on the same day to see the torque curve ramp and peak. The LCI is rated ~50NM TQ more and would be great to quantify how that truly looks.

[KayTees]

Originally Posted by robopp

I can't wrap my head around these comments. My '20 X3MC pulls so hard down low in sport+. If you're not in sport+, sure, but that's the point of the various configurations.

I have the same experience before and after tune. I've lowered down the torque in lower gears due to the hardcore jerkiness but holy sh*t once its tuned after 3k+rpm, gears 1,2,3 I spin before before I upshift

[Edgar_FriendlyX3M]

Originally Posted by KayTees

I have the same experience before and after tune. I've lowered down the torque in lower gears due to the hardcore jerkiness but holy sh*t once its tuned after 3k+rpm, gears 1,2,3 I spin before before I upshift

Yeah same here. Pre tune, my x3m was quick! It's no secret you need to be somewhere in the 2500-3000 rpm range before you really have the bulk of the power available. However, after the tune, you'd swear the vehicle could pull the front wheels off the ground it's so fast. From a stop using launch control, your insides want to be sucked out the back of the car. Even in 2nd or 3rd gear hovering around 3k rpm I'm amazed at how blisteringly fast it is.

[Hook'Em]

Originally Posted by beammeupscottie

One thing I can say about 2020 X3M Comp vs 2022 LCI is the lag has been eliminated. Haven't gone past break in mileage yet to push it but so far the ride is improved also. Perhaps dampening adjusted? Not sure but when in sport plus; suspension doesn't seem as jarring over bumps yet it's still super tight. You can definitely feel a difference right off. 2 cents.

I am in agreement!

Having owned a 2021 X3MC and recently purchased a 2022 X3MC, I am surprised at the differences between the two cars.

When I owned the 2021 version, I never felt that there was any lag issue. Having moved to the 2022, I can definitely say that they have improved the bottom end feel of the car (not to mention the suspension feels much less aggressive) and it drives like it has much more low RPM torque. Feels vastly more nimble and controllable coming off a stop at a light; just earlier to drive.

I was never dissatisfied with the 2021, but the improvements I have noticed in the 2022 are legit.

Bryan

[allinon72]

I've spent the last several months on the G80 forum and almost ever hear people complain about the lack of low end torque. So the question is....why?

[danniexi]

Originally Posted by allinon72

I've spent the last several months on the G80 forum and almost ever hear people complain about the lack of low end torque. So the question is....why?

i don't have concrete evidence, but from the marketing video, it seems like BMW M has changed the software for the ZF8 to aid in better acceleration in the LCI... probably the same programming as the G8x. That along with the minor changes to the engine and the tune (lets be honest, the additional 20 or whatever lb-ft of torque isn't THAT dramatic) all adds up to a "quicker" feeling LCI with less "lag."

if a tuner solves it, they can probably replicate a transmission tune copied directly from the LCI models (e.g. like the GTS DCT transmission tune for the F8x) along with the engine tune to really open things up for pre-LCI models.

[Bestle]

Originally Posted by allinon72

I've spent the last several months on the G80 forum and almost ever hear people complain about the lack of low end torque. So the question is....why?

There is a lot less weight to shift for one.

[robopp]

Originally Posted by allinon72

I've spent the last several months on the G80 forum and almost ever hear people complain about the lack of low end torque. So the question is....why?

Because people complain about everything. Low end torque on the S58 isn't the best, but it's manageable. Flooring it in 4,5,6,7,8 without shifting doesn't make any sense. That's why there are 8 gears.