[floridaorange]

Our house doesn't have one. Does yours? Do you like it? Our water is so hard here in Florida, not sure if a water softener will make a noticeable change or not? How long do they last, or need to be serviced?

[Chick Webb]

If you have hard water and install a proper water softener, you will look back in 6 months and wonder why you waited so long. Makes a huge difference in a lot of ways.

[iminhell1]

Had softeners my entire life. It's a must for showers and washing cloths. No need for it for anything else.

But nowdays I feel the filters may be a better option, or filter and softener. But I'm not sure of the reoccurring costs or one vs other or combined.

But I do know that cleaner water will prolong the life of your waterheater.

[IllSic_Design]

It 100% makes a difference for washing clothes and showering as stated. Immediately noticed an improvement in both after installing one at my current house. Water filters/reverse osmosis are also recommended for drinking water

[floridaorange]

I guess I don't know if I technically have hard water or not... I just know when I go to the mountains the water is so much better. As well as most nice hotels. I do have filters on our shower heads.

A reverse osmosis system might be a good idea. I had one when I lived in California, it was nice. Thanks for the reminder.

[iminhell1]

If you filter the water prior to the softener you can reduce the amount of salt used, from what I've read,,, so long as the softener has ability to adjust the brine.

Really your best bet is to talk to the local well and water guys. They'll know what path to take for sure.

[floridaorange]

Originally Posted by iminhell1

If you filter the water prior to the softener you can reduce the amount of salt used, from what I've read,,, so long as the softener has ability to adjust the brine.

Really your best bet is to talk to the local well and water guys. They'll know what path to take for sure.

That's a great common sense idea - thank you

[Chick Webb]

Originally Posted by iminhell1

No need for it for anything else.

Au contraire, mon ami. I use the tap off the water softener in my garage to feed my power washer. No more spots!

Originally Posted by iminhell1

But nowdays I feel the filters may be a better option, or filter and softener. But I'm not sure of the reoccurring costs or one vs other or combined.

But I do know that cleaner water will prolong the life of your waterheater.

Careful with "filter", as there are particle filters and reverse osmosis filters out there. Particle filters just get solids out of the water; they don't soften it. And, yeah, if you have a lot of solids a pre-filter is a good idea regardless of whether or not you have a softener as well.

Reverse osmosis filters will remove the ions that make the water hard and are thus similar to the traditional softeners that use an ion-exchange column. I haven't looked, but I think those are considerably more expensive than the ones that use salt.

BTW, OP, a quick test of your water is to look at what your shampoo does. If it makes lots of bubbles, is hard to wash off, and leaves your skin feeling a little slippery, you have soft water. If it does the opposite, you have hard water. Hard can mean a lot of different things, though, so as someone mentioned, you should have a pro (e.g., the Culligan man) come out. They'll test for solids and minerals and tell you what the right answer is. More expensive, of course, but you'll get it right the first time.

[floridaorange]

Originally Posted by Chick Webb

BTW, OP, a quick test of your water is to look at what your shampoo does. If it makes lots of bubbles, is hard to wash off, and leaves your skin feeling a little slippery, you have soft water. If it does the opposite, you have hard water. Hard can mean a lot of different things, though, so as someone mentioned, you should have a pro (e.g., the Culligan man) come out. They'll test for solids and minerals and tell you what the right answer is. More expensive, of course, but you'll get it right the first time.

Does the opposite...i will contact Culligan, thanks

[vreihen16]

I have yet to taste a Florida tap water that didn't taste like it was half-baked desalinated sea water. One brand of bottled Florida spring water is OK, because it comes from Silver Springs in the middle of the state. No way could I live in Florida for more than a few weeks with that water.....

[floridaorange]

It's bad. We buy all our water. We have filters in our shower heads as i mentioned but I'd like to step it up.

[M_Six]

Love/hate relationship with ours. When we had it put in, the water here was really hard. You could not get suds from soap and our drinking glasses were all dull and clouded. My skin was always dry. Our water wasn't smelly like Florida water, but it was still hard. Then we got the softener. Major change. Suddenly you could easily work up suds. But that squeaky clean feeling when you got done with a shower was gone. The water left you feeling like you hadn't gotten all the soap off. This is a common issue and in reality, the "squeaky clean" feeling is the mineral deposits on your skin. That "slimy" feeling is actually how clean skin should feel. I got used to it. Wifey could not.

The other issue we had was with the salt back flush. This is a requirement to clean the filters, and it isn't supposed to get into your drinking water. But if the system had just finished back flushing and you took a drink before a good bit of water had run through the system, you got a slightly salty/copperish taste. I rarely drink tap water, so it wasn't a big deal with me. But Wifey drinks tap water all the time and she wasn't happy with that issue.

Eventually we tried bypassing the system for a week or two and then turning it back on. The transition period was good. No salty taste and no slimy feeling. But once the hard water was out of the system, we were back to the aforementioned issues. So about 6 months ago we bypassed it entirely and haven't gone back. The water doesn't seem as hard as it used to be when we first moved here, so maybe they're treating it differently now.

If I could do the system over, I'd have them split the water system so only the water going through the water heaters was softened. That way showers would be a mix of soft and hard water, which would probably be perfect. Plus the dishwasher and laundry would all have softened water. But the drinking water wouldn't have the occasional nasty taste. That wouldn't help much with the Florida sulfur issue, though.

[Drop the hammer]

I highly recommend the softener if you have hard water. Get it tested. I have my fridge, outdoor water taps, and cold water on kitchen sink and on bar sink bypassed so they don’t get the salty water. Everything else is soft water. My complexion is much better (I’m almost 50 and still battle it). Soap use way down, and no water spots anywhere on showers or steel fixtures. I also use soft water for the pressure washer in garage.
If you have hard water then get a softener, but don’t drink the soft water.

[Freiheit]

Originally Posted by M_Six

The other issue we had was with the salt back flush. This is a requirement to clean the filters, and it isn't supposed to get into your drinking water. But if the system had just finished back flushing and you took a drink before a good bit of water had run through the system, you got a slightly salty/copperish taste. I rarely drink tap water, so it wasn't a big deal with me. But Wifey drinks tap water all the time and she wasn't happy with that issue.

If I could do the system over, I'd have them split the water system so only the water going through the water heaters was softened. That way showers would be a mix of soft and hard water, which would probably be perfect. Plus the dishwasher and laundry would all have softened water. But the drinking water wouldn't have the occasional nasty taste. That wouldn't help much with the Florida sulfur issue, though.

The coppery taste isn't from the softener doing a bad job. Whomever installed it should have mentioned to you that you shouldn't use your water whenever the system is in backwash. Depending on the system capacity that could be for up to two hours, which is why backwash mode is usually set to occur in the middle of the night. But if one or both of you get up and use the bathroom during that time, you just interrupted the cycle and pulled a couple of gallons through the Clack head, which throws everything off. It could taste like copper, sometimes it smells and tastes like rusty iron, sometimes you'll get a sulfur smell especially if you have bacteria in the line. Figure out what time your system backwash event is scheduled, then start checking your display every day so you know what day your next event happens. Get in the habit of avoiding using the plumbing during backwash events and you shouldn't have that metallic taste and odor ever again.

Around here the softener is completely necessary because our well water is hard enough to ruin everything, but hardness and sulfur smell are two different things and require different fixes. Hydrogen sulfide gas is the byproduct of bacteria in the water, and there's a few different approaches to getting rid of the smell. Expansion reservoirs, chlor/de-chlor systems, and 1 or 2 stage filters that allege they can reduce or eliminate the sulfur odor are the most common. We didn't want the gigantic expansion tanks, we don't want chlorine near us, so we went with a single stage odor elimination media. It looks identical to our softener - like a big welding gas bottle - and stands right next to it. If you get a sulfur mitigation filter that requires a backwash, learn when not to use your water, just like with the softener. Also make sure they're not scheduled to run at the same time or that will really screw things up.

Hope this helps.

[M_Six]

I knew we were getting the copper taste because the system just backwashed or was currently backwashing. But our installer said the softener system was bypassed during backwash, so there should have been no chance of that happening. And our backwash cycle is mechanical and is based on gallons used. When it hits a certain point, the valves move to start the backwash. There is no electricity involved, it all mechanical.

But I agree that waiting for a while after the backwash cycle before drinking prevents the nasty taste. But as our softener system is in the far back corner of the basement and runs when it hits a certain water usage point, there's no way for us to know when it runs unless we go downstairs and look to see if it's backwashing.

[M_Six]

Originally Posted by Drop the hammer

I highly recommend the softener if you have hard water. Get it tested. I have my fridge, outdoor water taps, and cold water on kitchen sink and on bar sink bypassed so they don’t get the salty water. Everything else is soft water. My complexion is much better (I’m almost 50 and still battle it). Soap use way down, and no water spots anywhere on showers or steel fixtures. I also use soft water for the pressure washer in garage.
If you have hard water then get a softener, but don’t drink the soft water.

I wish we had done that.

[BimaXfanatic]

Originally Posted by floridaorange

Our house doesn't have one. Does yours? Do you like it? Our water is so hard here in Florida, not sure if a water softener will make a noticeable change or not? How long do they last, or need to be serviced?

Originally Posted by floridaorange

Our house doesn't have one. Does yours? Do you like it? Our water is so hard here in Florida, not sure if a water softener will make a noticeable change or not? How long do they last, or need to be serviced?

Water softners are not really my thing

[floridaorange]

Just to be clear - we are not on well water - we have no sulfur smell. I just want to see if we can improve our water. Culligan seems like a great idea. I have family on well water though down south a couple hours. That's a whole other deal with that setup

[RickFLM4]

Originally Posted by floridaorange

Does the opposite...i will contact Culligan, thanks

We have a whole house filter and softener and they are well worth it.

However, I strongly recommend staying away from Culligan. They charge you for a service visit to check on problems under warranty, use electronic boards in their equipment that frequently get fried in thunderstorms and use proprietary parts difficult for other providers to service. We actually replaced our Culligan water softener and filter with products from GE (I think it was GE) while the Culligan was under warranty because "free warranty repairs" were more expensive than just replacing it. The Culligan products were resulting in 2 or more $100 service visits per year but the replacement products have been great.

Aside from refilling with salt, filters and softeners need to be periodically re-bed. I think it is every 2-3 years for the filters and 5-7 years for the softeners, but I may have that backwards because I am responding by memory without looking it up.

[M-technik-3]

Originally Posted by iminhell1

If you filter the water prior to the softener you can reduce the amount of salt used, from what I've read,,, so long as the softener has ability to adjust the brine.

Really your best bet is to talk to the local well and water guys. They'll know what path to take for sure.

There are newer systems that use citric acid that are far easier to use.

[Freiheit]

Originally Posted by M_Six

I knew we were getting the copper taste because the system just backwashed or was currently backwashing. But our installer said the softener system was bypassed during backwash, so there should have been no chance of that happening. And our backwash cycle is mechanical and is based on gallons used. When it hits a certain point, the valves move to start the backwash. There is no electricity involved, it all mechanical.

But I agree that waiting for a while after the backwash cycle before drinking prevents the nasty taste. But as our softener system is in the far back corner of the basement and runs when it hits a certain water usage point, there's no way for us to know when it runs unless we go downstairs and look to see if it's backwashing.

He's sort of right but not quite, at least as far as I understand these things. BTW, was your system installed by a local plumber, or was it done by a water treatment company?

Backwash (its more properly called "regeneration") isn't just running water backwards through the media. I don't recall the number of stages but I know there's a few of them and they take varying amounts of time. Drawing water during any of the stages doesn't just bypass the regeneration, it usually cancels it. Since each stage contributes to the water quality, stopping the thing during a particular stage can result in the water tasting, smelling, and feeling nasty.

I haven't seen a purely mechanical system ever. How does the head on your softener move the valves to divert water in order to backwash the treatment media? And how is the usage threshold set in order to schedule your treatment?

[Freiheit]

Originally Posted by RickFLM4

We have a whole house filter and softener and they are well worth it.

However, I strongly recommend staying away from Culligan. They charge you for a service visit to check on problems under warranty, use electronic boards in their equipment that frequently get fried in thunderstorms and use proprietary parts difficult for other providers to service. We actually replaced our Culligan water softener and filter with products from GE (I think it was GE) while the Culligan was under warranty because "free warranty repairs" were more expensive than just replacing it. The Culligan products were resulting in 2 or more $100 service visits per year but the replacement products have been great.

Aside from refilling with salt, filters and softeners need to be periodically re-bed. I think it is every 2-3 years for the filters and 5-7 years for the softeners, but I may have that backwards because I am responding by memory without looking it up.

You're pretty close on the numbers but it really comes down to the pre-treatment water quality and whether the homeowner allowed the system to regen without interference. My first system lasted about two years, in part because we had no idea that the system wasn't supposed to be used during regen. When it was re-bedded and re-purposed into the 2nd system the contrast between the new media (it looked like salmon roe at a sushi bar) and the old (it looked like black caviar) was pretty striking.
System 2 lasted about 5 years but it was full of trouble, mostly because the guys who installed it knew their equipment but didn't know plumbing and didn't know the local water. System 3 was installed by my local small-town plumber, probably one of the most intelligent and competent people I've ever met in the home services industry. I've been on the 3rd system for about 5 years now and aside from a few dead boards, like what you've experienced, its been a real quality unit.

Back to Culligan - even though their home stuff is janky, the Culligan commercial units are pretty strong. The home units probably use the same internals as every other system out there, which are based on the Clack design. You can order the boards for those yourself, and if you learn the programming you have a cheap way out in case of another failure.

Your experience with Culligan home treatment sounds like every A/C company out there, in other words don't confuse "10 year warranty" with "everything is paid for". (I recently had a surprise with my AC system where a parts failure resulted in a bill of about $600. Yes the failed part and install warranty was covered by the manufacturer, but they will not pay for the labor needed to draw down the system for service and then recharge it. Thats on the homeowner. )