[Tengocity]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-62638908

Why does there need to be a name for everything nowadays? I don't see how this is different to what I've seen folk do for decades... do the minimum they can get away with. Very prevalent in many public sector envoronments, and also highly unionised workforces I'd guess.

Not sure I saw how this benefitted the people particularly either. If you're undervalued by your current employer then finding another, better job has always been an option.

If you want to demonstrate your value, suitability for promotion or pay rise then you put in more effort.. same game for everyone.

In my group of friends, there are some who work to rule like this, there are others who enjoy their jobs and careers.. I know which is the happier and more content group, and it isn't those doing the bare minimum.

[boba-fett]

Like you say that has been going on for as long as I can remember in big / heavily unionized industries.

It used to be called Anti management / militant / disruptive poor behaviour or just a pain in the a4se!

[Pond]

Never had the luxury TBH.
Being self-employed for 37 years; do little work get little pay.
Work hard get slightly more pay. Simples.

[SteveChester]

If you don't like your job or feel undervalued then go and get another one!

Quiet quitting is another BS term - rather than doing something about it people would rather spend 12,24,36 months wasting time in their lives just doing the bare minimum…

[boba-fett]

I can see how putting in the work and hours going above and beyond, remaining positive, engaged and enthusiastic for very little recognition or award might put people off over the years though, especially when their colleague doing the same job who does Fvck all and gets treated the same.

[KRS_SN]

Live to work v work to live.
Was in the former camp in the past but with responsibilities growing I'm in the latter camp now wrt work as most of the going above and beyond has shifted from the job to the family. But we need people in both camps to make the system work as perhaps the quiet quitters are more productive over a longer term enjoying longer lives/health/less burnout etc.
'quiet quitting' sounds judgemental.
'Awakening to job description' or similar sounds better!

[GOF_430d]

Quiet Quitting, so that's what I've been doing for years.

Personally I call it lack of motivation.

I changed employers 15 years ago, to do the same role albeit for a different company to discover that all the reasons for leaving my previous employer were present in the new firm.

I have bouts of enthusiastic engagement and then I crash and come here for sustenance.

[Ennoch]

It seems the media has cottoned onto this and some quarters are using it as another way of saying 'look how lazy people are'. The reality is very different, IMO. This isn't about people who are work shy malingering lazy bastards who do the bare minimum to keep a job. Instead it's about pushing back at employers who offer 'exciting opportunities' and 'increased responsibilities' without any acknowledgement through increased pay or bonus. Of course if you're aiming for promotion then you do need to go above and beyond but I've been in jobs/teams before where the promised promotion never materialises and instead is just used as a carrot to get people to take on more and more work/responsibility/stress over and above their job description, as KRS_SN says. If you're not after promotion and the company doesn't pay worthwhile bonuses or pay increases, or even ARA allowances, then why would you do more and more to support someone else making more money from your work?

In the past I've let these things get to me as to a degree I was scared of the unknown in leaving a company I'd worked for since leaving uni and so constantly took on extra based on false promises, but now I'll just change jobs. I'm currently having a battle to get graded fairly for my half year due to a client being difficult which will then hit my promotion path. If that happens then loyalty's out the door and I'm off somewhere else because I am now, after many years of not being, career motivated. And I'm not going to be messed around by someone trying to retain me but on my current lower day rate rather than pay the increased rate post-promotion even though I'm already doing more than the increased rate would normally get. And if I do go down that path then from the time I hand my notice in I'm certainly not going to be doing all the 'above my pay grade/responsibility' stuff that I'm currently doing.

I think the real issue is companies have been luring people into doing significant extra work on false promises for years and this is just a backlash against that. It's in no way the same as those people who always choose to do the minimum, that's just bone-idleness.

[Ennoch]

Originally Posted by SteveChester

If you don't like your job or feel undervalued then go and get another one!

Quiet quitting is another BS term - rather than doing something about it people would rather spend 12,24,36 months wasting time in their lives just doing the bare minimum…

Toxic work environments have a multitude of impacts. I ended up doing a job for my previous employer which I should have enjoyed but thanks to a toxic team absolutely hated. The problem was that I spend my twenties racing bikes and doing other things so hadn't been particularly career minded away from the bike industry. This job utterly crushed my soul and will despite doing stuff several pay grades above my actual level yet come year end etc we'd all be told we were underperforming. The problem is that you then start to think 'maybe I'm not as good as I think I am, maybe they're right and I'm paid well for the work I do' etc etc. And because of the performance they say you're working at you can't move internally within the company but then because they've crushed your spirit you feel like you're not worth anything to other employers either. But then they do offer small bits of 'oh, if you do this it'll help your career' etc. So you end up doing a huge amount of work, which in my case transpired is being more than I'm now doing yet with nearly half the pay.

Luckily I got myself out of that situation but shit work environments can cause serious lack of self confidence and even depression and with either of those it simply isn't as simple as saying 'just leave', which was the rather unhelpful advice I got from my father over it...

[Tengocity]

I think there's a big difference between getting and maintaining a reasonable work life balance and passive aggressive work to rule mindset.

In the same way that there's a big difference between being politically aware (and thus savvy), and playing politics in the workplace, people really ought to be smart enough to step back and think what course of action is going to optimise my situation, in the short, medium and long term, and be clear about one's own intent.

[Pentland]

Originally Posted by Ennoch

It seems the media has cottoned onto this and some quarters are using it as another way of saying 'look how lazy people are'. The reality is very different, IMO. This isn't about people who are work shy malingering lazy bastards who do the bare minimum to keep a job. Instead it's about pushing back at employers who offer 'exciting opportunities' and 'increased responsibilities' without any acknowledgement through increased pay or bonus. Of course if you're aiming for promotion then you do need to go above and beyond but I've been in jobs/teams before where the promised promotion never materialises and instead is just used as a carrot to get people to take on more and more work/responsibility/stress over and above their job description, as KRS_SN says. If you're not after promotion and the company doesn't pay worthwhile bonuses or pay increases, or even ARA allowances, then why would you do more and more to support someone else making more money from your work?

Personally, because I enjoy my work and appreciate the value of having a job.
It’s not all about chasing a buck and being promoted.

So I don’t mind doing extra - within reason of course. When it gets beyond a threshold you have to decide what’s right for you.

[JustChris]

Acting your wage.



Oh dear. Another phrase within a phrase.

High inflation and wages not keeping up will bring more of this apathy from all ages I think.

[SimonBMW1]

This is so easy to do wfh. I do it more now. Lack of motivation and no real pay rise means why bother. Been spending thia week looking for a 440i insted of working. Or working to the min.

Do love local government jobs. So relaxing

[Watsey]

Originally Posted by Ennoch

It seems the media has cottoned onto this and some quarters are using it as another way of saying 'look how lazy people are'. The reality is very different, IMO. This isn't about people who are work shy malingering lazy bastards who do the bare minimum to keep a job. Instead it's about pushing back at employers who offer 'exciting opportunities' and 'increased responsibilities' without any acknowledgement through increased pay or bonus. Of course if you're aiming for promotion then you do need to go above and beyond but I've been in jobs/teams before where the promised promotion never materialises and instead is just used as a carrot to get people to take on more and more work/responsibility/stress over and above their job description, as KRS_SN says. If you're not after promotion and the company doesn't pay worthwhile bonuses or pay increases, or even ARA allowances, then why would you do more and more to support someone else making more money from your work?

In the past I've let these things get to me as to a degree I was scared of the unknown in leaving a company I'd worked for since leaving uni and so constantly took on extra based on false promises, but now I'll just change jobs. I'm currently having a battle to get graded fairly for my half year due to a client being difficult which will then hit my promotion path. If that happens then loyalty's out the door and I'm off somewhere else because I am now, after many years of not being, career motivated. And I'm not going to be messed around by someone trying to retain me but on my current lower day rate rather than pay the increased rate post-promotion even though I'm already doing more than the increased rate would normally get. And if I do go down that path then from the time I hand my notice in I'm certainly not going to be doing all the 'above my pay grade/responsibility' stuff that I'm currently doing.

I think the real issue is companies have been luring people into doing significant extra work on false promises for years and this is just a backlash against that. It's in no way the same as those people who always choose to do the minimum, that's just bone-idleness.

I pretty much agree with that.

Many people recognise that you may need to demonstrate your ambition by way of doing an acceptable amount above and beyond your JD as a means of differentiating yourself.

BUT, companies can take advantage in several ways either by explicitly requesting/demanding "more, more , more" or allowing the individual to work way beyond the requirements of the role but ignoring the effort/results when it comes to remuneration and progression.

I remember going WAY beyond my JD for one organisation over the course of a year, being actively criticised for it by the CFO in my annual review, resulting in my 'score' being marked-down. That was the last time my contentiousness got the better of me in that company.

Quiet Quitting is a deliberately sensationalist term, but the individuals in the BBC article have clearly been expected to take-on huge amounts of extra work for no reward.

"Respecting your worth/self-worth" may be more a appropriate way of phrasing it and everyone is free to adopt that approach.

EDIT - In my experience loyalty mostly works in a single direction - from the 'worker' to the 'employer', and rarely the other way round. For many (most ?) people the phrase "if you want to get up, get out" still applies. Relying on natural progression just can't work for everyone in the company.

[Tengocity]

Originally Posted by Watsey

"Respecting your worth/self-worth" may be more a appropriate way of phrasing it and everyone is free to adopt that approach.

I fully agree with that.

I think it's the phrase I dislike as much as anything, and in particular the passive aggressive nature of it. If you're not being appreciated where you are then find another job rather than languishing in that situation. It won't be good for you or the company.

[DaveA]

Originally Posted by Tengocity

I fully agree with that.

I think it's the phrase I dislike as much as anything, and in particular the passive aggressive nature of it. If you're not being appreciated where you are then find another job rather than languishing in that situation. It won't be good for you or the company.

Yes, QQ is a horrible term and I am all for folk respecting their self worth in the workplace... I never minded going the extra mile at work unless it was expected (rather than gratefully accepted)... Then, the more it was expected, the less inclined I was to go further than I need do...

[Abzynthe]

I'm fortunate enough that even though I don't get paid overtime, I get to bank my extra hours, and anything above and beyond gets assessed towards my EOY bonus which can be up to 25% of my salary.

[HighlandPete]

This subject was summed up for me when an apprentice, over 50-years ago.

The boss comes in and thanks one of the mechanics for doing a good job. The guy looks the boss in the eyes and says, "Never mind the thanks 'guvnor', put it in the packet".

[Grant_7]

Originally Posted by Watsey

I pretty much agree with that.

Many people recognise that you may need to demonstrate your ambition by way of doing an acceptable amount above and beyond your JD as a means of differentiating yourself.

BUT, companies can take advantage in several ways either by explicitly requesting/demanding "more, more , more" or allowing the individual to work way beyond the requirements of the role but ignoring the effort/results when it comes to remuneration and progression.

I remember going WAY beyond my JD for one organisation over the course of a year, being actively criticised for it by the CFO in my annual review, resulting in my 'score' being marked-down. That was the last time my contentiousness got the better of me in that company.

Quiet Quitting is a deliberately sensationalist term, but the individuals in the BBC article have clearly been expected to take-on huge amounts of extra work for no reward.

"Respecting your worth/self-worth" may be more a appropriate way of phrasing it and everyone is free to adopt that approach.

EDIT - In my experience loyalty mostly works in a single direction - from the 'worker' to the 'employer', and rarely the other way round. For many (most ?) people the phrase "if you want to get up, get out" still applies. Relying on natural progression just can't work for everyone in the company.

Excellent post and I fully agree with your sentiments.

I have and still see many young Engineers, hungry to move up, being overloaded with work and responsibilities until they break. Meanwhile those of us who stand up for ourselves and are prepared to say "No!", whilst not favoured by upper Management, do certainly have 'easier' (figuratively) working lives.

Plus, as you said Ian, people being 'made up' to new positions, whereby they immediately take on more responsibility, but wait for over 6 months until their pay reflects the new role...

[JLR1969]

I have always worked to achieve my targets and be successful but i very rarely worked into the evening or weekends.

If you cant do your job in an 8 hour day either you are shit at your job or you have too big a workload. If you are self employed then of course that's different

It was expected at Mars that you took on side projects and joined meetings that you boss should have attended but delegated.

I agreed to some and refused others, easy to do this when you are in your 50s and are not bothered about career progression, I just did a good job and kept out of the politics and bullshit, leave that for the youngsters.

[agentorange]

Sort of. I produced a report that is in review and I have not been assigned any other tasks in the meantime. Maybe I'm not quiet quitting so much as treading water.

[Grant_7]

Perfect for this thread