[335dye]

Today I was driving my daughters 2008 BMW 335xi to get a haircut. No issues going there. After getting back in the car and pulling off, I got a yellow engine oil light. After running the oil level check, it said add a quart. No big deal, seem to get this in my wife’s X5 too. Right after that, I got a yellow Engine symbol for “Full Emgine Power No Longer Available “ and I could feel the reduced power. There was also a yellow SES light. So I figured I would get gas and head home. On the way home, stopped by a drive through for drinks and started to get other caution lights. I got the yellow Gear with exclamation mark, yellow ABS 4x4 light, and yellow inspection light. As soon as I pulled up to the window, the dash started to flicker and the car died. Could not restart it. Pushed it out of the way and got it towed. Once home I was able to jump start it. Dont want to drive it too far but will drive around the neighborhood tomorrow and see if it happens again. Until then, any advice? Tow guy says alternator. Thanks

[Hoody007]

Sounds like it. Was the OFHG leaking or replaced recently by any chance?

[335dye]

Originally Posted by Hoody007

Sounds like it. Was the OFHG leaking or replaced recently by any chance?

It was not replaced recently. And not tracking or seeing a leak. I had the oil and brake fluid serviced by BMW a few months ago. Thats what threw me off when I got the “ add 1 quart” message when checking the oil level

[Serf27]

Bmw alternators usually cause a mess of lights at random times. Tow guy may be right.

You had SES light pop up.
You should have a code for that and the limp mode/reduced power.
I’d start with checking those codes first.

Did you run it for a while when jump started?

My guess is the alternator died, gave you SES and limp mode. Battery voltage kept the car running until it couldn’t anymore and your dash lit up from low voltage and battery ran out of power.

[335dye]

Originally Posted by Serf27

Bmw alternators usually cause a mess of lights at random times. Tow guy may be right.

You had SES light pop up.
You should have a code for that and the limp mode/reduced power.
I’d start with checking those codes first.

Did you run it for a while when jump started?

My guess is the alternator died, gave you SES and limp mode. Battery voltage kept the car running until it couldn’t anymore and your dash lit up from low voltage and battery ran out of power.

I did let it run for a while after jumping it. Shut it off and then started it back up and ran a few minutes. The only two codes I got using my cheap OBD2 scanner was P0015 stands for Exhaust “B” Camshaft Position Timing – Over – Retarded (Bank 1) and P0440 BMW Code - Tank Venting System Function. Those were taken after I jumped it.

Alternator does make sense in my mind as well.

[Serf27]

Oh. Dash lights with no related codes and the way it died sound like alternator.

Being able to run for a while doesn’t sound like alternator. Possible the battery was charged enough to run for those few minutes from whatever you jumped it with?

Camshaft error could have been from the alternator if it had a issue.
Was it a regular scanner you used?

[335dye]

Originally Posted by Serf27

Oh. Dash lights with no related codes and the way it died sound like alternator.

Being able to run for a while doesn’t sound like alternator. Possible the battery was charged enough to run for those few minutes from whatever you jumped it with?

Camshaft error could have been from the alternator if it had a issue.
Was it a regular scanner you used?

Yes it was just a basic obd2 scanner.

[gbalthrop]

We're just guessing without reliable voltage readings. Need cheap Multimeter, $7 at HFT, $12 from Amazon.
1) Measure Battery Voltage at Jumpstart Terminals under hood after car sat overnight, and BEFORE attempting to start engine.
2) If that reading at JS Terminals is < 12V, open trunk, remove battery cover trim, and measure/record voltage at battery posts.
3) If 12.0V or more, attempt to start engine.
4) If Starter does NOT Crank and engine does NOT Start, Measure voltage AGAIN at Jumpstart Terminals; record reading.
5) If engine starts, measure voltage at Jumpstart Terminals with Engine Running.
6) If your Scan Tool can read "Freeze Frame Data", view and post ALL Freeze Frame Data related to any DME Fault Code.
7) Please provide Make/Model of Scan Tool and Last-7 Characters of your VIN.

With that data, we can actually offer suggestions of Next Steps. Goals:
1) Prevent Towing in future;
2) Prevent Throwing Parts.
George

[335dye]

Originally Posted by gbalthrop

We're just guessing without reliable voltage readings. Need cheap Multimeter, $7 at HFT, $12 from Amazon.
1) Measure Battery Voltage at Jumpstart Terminals under hood after car sat overnight, and BEFORE attempting to start engine.
2) If that reading at JS Terminals is < 12V, open trunk, remove battery cover trim, and measure/record voltage at battery posts.
3) If 12.0V or more, attempt to start engine.
4) If Starter does NOT Crank and engine does NOT Start, Measure voltage AGAIN at Jumpstart Terminals; record reading.
5) If engine starts, measure voltage at Jumpstart Terminals with Engine Running.
6) If your Scan Tool can read "Freeze Frame Data", view and post ALL Freeze Frame Data related to any DME Fault Code.
7) Please provide Make/Model of Scan Tool and Last-7 Characters of your VIN.

With that data, we can actually offer suggestions of Next Steps. Goals:
1) Prevent Towing in future;
2) Prevent Throwing Parts.
George

I appreciate this. I will check it out tomorrow and post results. Thanks to everyone so far

[335dye]

Originally Posted by gbalthrop

We're just guessing without reliable voltage readings. Need cheap Multimeter, $7 at HFT, $12 from Amazon.
1) Measure Battery Voltage at Jumpstart Terminals under hood after car sat overnight, and BEFORE attempting to start engine.
2) If that reading at JS Terminals is < 12V, open trunk, remove battery cover trim, and measure/record voltage at battery posts.
3) If 12.0V or more, attempt to start engine.
4) If Starter does NOT Crank and engine does NOT Start, Measure voltage AGAIN at Jumpstart Terminals; record reading.
5) If engine starts, measure voltage at Jumpstart Terminals with Engine Running.
6) If your Scan Tool can read "Freeze Frame Data", view and post ALL Freeze Frame Data related to any DME Fault Code.
7) Please provide Make/Model of Scan Tool and Last-7 Characters of your VIN.

With that data, we can actually offer suggestions of Next Steps. Goals:
1) Prevent Towing in future;
2) Prevent Throwing Parts.
George

I got around to checking the voltages and running the car this morning. To answer your questions, it read about 12.4V under the hood and on the battery with the vehicle off. After starting the car, it read about 15.1V under the hood (radio, lights, etc were off).

After letting the car run, there was the add oil light and yellow SES light on. I added oil and that went away but the SES stayed on until after I shutdown the car and scanned the OBD2. I used a Oxgord MS300 OBD2 Code Reader. It still gave me P0015 and P0440. I restarted the vehicle and the SES went away and has stayed off for atleast 10-15 minutes while running. There were no codes after scanning the car again after shutting it off. My Eonon display shows a consistent 14.5V while sitting here with lights, heat, and radio on. Will probably come back in a while to restart it and drive it around the neighborhood to see what it does. The goal is for it to make it a couple of miles to an indy shop since I actually have an extended warranty on the car.

[335dye]

UPDATE:

Started driving the car around the neighborhood for about 5-10 minutes (no faster than 25 mph). The voltage stayed at around 14.6V with lights, heat, and radio on. Took it out on a main road and drove about 2-3 minutes (about 40 mph). As soon as I went to turn around, the radio stopped playing but was still on. I noticed the voltage on the Eonon had dropped to 11.4V after arriving home and sat at about 11.2-11.3V. I could feel the car kinda jerk or hesitate slightly while sitting at idle. SES came back on once voltage hit 11.1V. After shutting off, the lights started to come on the dash again. I shut down, got many codes, P0440, P0171, P0174, P2236, P3134, P3000). Car will not start now but dash lights come on as of right now.

[gbalthrop]

Originally Posted by 335dye

... checking the voltages and running the car this morning... about 12.4V under the hood and on the battery with the vehicle off. After starting the car, it read about 15.1V under the hood (radio, lights, etc were off). [All NORMAL]
After letting the car run, there was the add oil light and yellow SES light on. I added oil and that went away but the SES stayed on until after I shutdown the car and scanned the OBD2. I used a Oxgord MS300 OBD2 Code Reader. It still gave me P0015 and P0440. [See below] I restarted the vehicle and the SES went away and has stayed off for atleast 10-15 minutes while running. There were no codes after scanning the car again after shutting it off. My Eonon display shows a consistent 14.5V while sitting here with lights, heat, and radio on...

Is "Eonon" an aftermarket Radio Head Unit with voltage display? Whatever it is, WHERE is it getting the voltage reading from? Supply to JB Fuse Panel via X13020 Connector on right of JB Fuse Panel?

Due to your reported voltage issues in post below, whoever is diagnosing the issue will need to determine WHICH B+ Cable from battery (there are 3) has reduced voltage. Choices are: (1) ALL 3 due to battery terminal connection or battery fault, (2) Large B+ Cable that provides Alternator Charge to Battery, and battery power to Starter Motor; (3) Medium-sized Red Cable that runs from inboard side of RPDP to Right side of JB Fuse Panel at connector X13020. I'll attach several photos/ diagrams to next post so you can get the idea.

Originally Posted by 335dye

UPDATE:
Started driving the car around the neighborhood for about 5-10 minutes (no faster than 25 mph). The voltage stayed at around 14.6V with lights, heat, and radio on. Took it out on a main road and drove about 2-3 minutes (about 40 mph). [All NORMAL to that point.] As soon as I went to turn around, the radio stopped playing but was still on. I noticed the voltage on the Eonon had dropped to 11.4V after arriving home and sat at about 11.2-11.3V. [So question is: WHAT Cable provides the Voltage "Eonon" is displaying. Sounds like a loose connection somewhere, as voltage should NOT drop that quickly due to issue with Alternator or battery.] I could feel the car kinda jerk or hesitate slightly while sitting at idle. SES came back on once voltage hit 11.1V. After shutting off, the lights started to come on the dash again. I shut down, got many codes, P0440, P0171, P0174, P2236, P3134, P3000). Car will not start now but dash lights come on as of right now.

You say "car will NOT start now". Time to read voltages at Jumpstart Terminals, Battery Posts, and X13020 if you can do that (OR use "Hidden Menu 9.00" to read voltage on the instrument Cluster).

When car won't start, does anything click when you press START button with foot on Brake/Clutch? If so, is that a single click or "ratchet-like" repeated clicks? Where does any clicking come from? Or does Starter Crank engine, but engine does NOT fire?

Extended warranty probably doesn't cover "Loose wires", or diagnostic time to try to locate the issue, so I would suggest testing voltage and answering questions for another "round or two", and we may be able to actually DIAGNOSE this issue, without INPA or ISTA.

My guess is that the codes are basically due to DME hiccups resulting from low voltage. Low voltage is probably due to a loose Cable/ Connection, either at the battery, or at the JB Fuse Panel. OR, to add to the confusion, "Over-voltage", or voltage > 16 volts can cause multiple warning lights on Instrument Cluster, and scrambled Communications between Modules via BUS network. If you were observing voltage with engine running and it never went above ~ 15.1V, then NO evidence of Over-voltage.

Biggest concern is taking vehicle out to go to shop, and NOT getting there.
Please see Attachments to NEXT Post for how the 3 cables from Battery are configured.
George

[gbalthrop]

Attachments per prior post (Photos & ISTA ScreenPrint).
George

[335dye]

Originally Posted by gbalthrop

You say "car will NOT start now". Time to read voltages at Jumpstart Terminals, Battery Posts, and X13020 if you can do that (OR use "Hidden Menu 9.00" to read voltage on the instrument Cluster).

When car won't start, does anything click when you press START button with foot on Brake/Clutch? If so, is that a single click or "ratchet-like" repeated clicks? Where does any clicking come from? Or does Starter Crank engine, but engine does NOT fire?

Extended warranty probably doesn't cover "Loose wires", or diagnostic time to try to locate the issue, so I would suggest testing voltage and answering questions for another "round or two", and we may be able to actually DIAGNOSE this issue, without INPA or ISTA.

My guess is that the codes are basically due to DME hiccups resulting from low voltage. Low voltage is probably due to a loose Cable/ Connection, either at the battery, or at the JB Fuse Panel. OR, to add to the confusion, "Over-voltage", or voltage > 16 volts can cause multiple warning lights on Instrument Cluster, and scrambled Communications between Modules via BUS network. If you were observing voltage with engine running and it never went above ~ 15.1V, then NO evidence of Over-voltage.

Biggest concern is taking vehicle out to go to shop, and NOT getting there.
Please see Attachments to NEXT Post for how the 3 cables from Battery are configured.
George

Thanks George! That is my concern with trying to drive it out of the neighborhood.

Of course when I go out to the car, the voltage inder the hood and on the battery were at 12.4V. I was able to start the car. The head unit says 14.7V and the hidden menu was reading about 12.4V with car off and 14.9V with car on. The yellow SES light is still on as well. Voltage has dropped to 11.9V while sitting in my driveway for the last 20 minutes.

On another note, the headinit works and I can listen to music on bluetooth, but no sound is heard when radio is on. Not sure if the unit is shot, a fuse, or a setting.

[gbalthrop]

Originally Posted by 335dye

... Of course when I go out to the car, the voltage under the hood and on the battery were at 12.4V. I was able to start the car. The head unit says 14.7V and the hidden menu was reading about 12.4V with car off and 14.9V with car on. The yellow SES light is still on as well. Voltage has dropped to 11.9V while sitting in my driveway for the last 20 minutes.

Questions:
1) So you were seeing 11.2V to 11.4V "on Eonon" when car was last turned off, and WITHOUT battery charge, you NOW see 12.4 @ Jumpstart Terminals?
2) WHAT is "EONON" and is it powered via JB Fuse Panel?
3) Refer to 1st photo attached to Post #13, and the Medium-sized RED B+ cable at bottom of photo that is labeled: "B+ to X13020..."; while someone else monitors Voltage display, gently to moderately "wiggle" that cable at battery, and see if Voltage varies (Ignition ON).
4) In SAME photo, identify LARGE Red B+ cable that goes to Transfer Point in front of battery base, and then to Jumpstart B+ Terminal under hood. Have someone monitor voltage at Jumpstart Terminals under hood as you try to jiggle that cable at the battery, and where it goes DOWN to front of battery.

Somewhere, there is a loose connection in ONE of those two B+ supplies (1) to the JB Fuse Panel, or (2) to the Alternator & Starter. (1) is more likely than 2 if "EONON" is wired to JB.
George

[335dye]

Originally Posted by gbalthrop

Questions:
1) So you were seeing 11.2V to 11.4V "on Eonon" when car was last turned off, and WITHOUT battery charge, you NOW see 12.4 @ Jumpstart Terminals?
2) WHAT is "EONON" and is it powered via JB Fuse Panel?
3) Refer to 1st photo attached to Post #13, and the Medium-sized RED B+ cable at bottom of photo that is labeled: "B+ to X13020..."; while someone else monitors Voltage display, gently to moderately "wiggle" that cable at battery, and see if Voltage varies (Ignition ON).
4) In SAME photo, identify LARGE Red B+ cable that goes to Transfer Point in front of battery base, and then to Jumpstart B+ Terminal under hood. Have someone monitor voltage at Jumpstart Terminals under hood as you try to jiggle that cable at the battery, and where it goes DOWN to front of battery.

Somewhere, there is a loose connection in ONE of those two B+ supplies (1) to the JB Fuse Panel, or (2) to the Alternator & Starter. (1) is more likely than 2 if "EONON" is wired to JB.
George

The Eonon is an aftermarket headunit. Fairly popular within these forums. It has worked properly for the past year or so. And since it is utilizing the factory harnesses, I assume it does run to the JB Fuse Panel.

I am going to get my son to help wiggle these harnesses and let you know what we find. Thanks

[335dye]

Originally Posted by gbalthrop

Questions:
1) So you were seeing 11.2V to 11.4V "on Eonon" when car was last turned off, and WITHOUT battery charge, you NOW see 12.4 @ Jumpstart Terminals?
2) WHAT is "EONON" and is it powered via JB Fuse Panel?
3) Refer to 1st photo attached to Post #13, and the Medium-sized RED B+ cable at bottom of photo that is labeled: "B+ to X13020..."; while someone else monitors Voltage display, gently to moderately "wiggle" that cable at battery, and see if Voltage varies (Ignition ON).
4) In SAME photo, identify LARGE Red B+ cable that goes to Transfer Point in front of battery base, and then to Jumpstart B+ Terminal under hood. Have someone monitor voltage at Jumpstart Terminals under hood as you try to jiggle that cable at the battery, and where it goes DOWN to front of battery.

Somewhere, there is a loose connection in ONE of those two B+ supplies (1) to the JB Fuse Panel, or (2) to the Alternator & Starter. (1) is more likely than 2 if "EONON" is wired to JB.
George

We went out to the car and did not see any sort of fluctuation in terms of voltage when wiggling and shaking those cables. We tried them both with the vehicle off and on. It stayed steady at about 11.7V.

[335dye]

UPDATE 2

Went to start the car up this evening and it is at 14.1V on the headunit and secret menu. The radio is still not playing music byt works with bluetooth. So not sure if thats a seperate issue, fuse, or a short within the headunit. Not sure what to think. How is the battery dying to where it wont start and the. All of a sudden starts later on or the next day and the battery seems to be charged?

[bmwbob89]

Voltage regulator is probably failing intermittently. If the battery is in good condition it will recover while sitting. I replaced mine a few months ago as preventative maintenance. Common failure on BMW's. All of my E46's had issues and I bought one years back it somehow made the trip home about 30 miles. During the road test before I bought it all the cluster lights started going crazy and it dies when I got to the lot. The next day it was ok enough to make the trip home. Put a regulator in and it was fine.

[335dye]

Originally Posted by bmwbob89

Voltage regulator is probably failing intermittently. If the battery is in good condition it will recover while sitting. I replaced mine a few months ago as preventative maintenance. Common failure on BMW's. All of my E46's had issues and I bought one years back it somehow made the trip home about 30 miles. During the road test before I bought it all the cluster lights started going crazy and it dies when I got to the lot. The next day it was ok enough to make the trip home. Put a regulator in and it was fine.

I will look into that

[Bmw1939]

Originally Posted by 335dye

I will look into that

The stereo cuts when the battery is dying. My stereo would cut out intermittently before my battery finally died.

[335dye]

Originally Posted by Bmw1939

The stereo cuts when the battery is dying. My stereo would cut out intermittently before my battery finally died.

Im not sure how old the battery is. It has been in there since I have owned it the last 2-3 years. Im not understanding how the battery voltage will drop when in it for a while, not want ti start, and then jump up to 14V later on and start.