[1drive]

It's a more practical car with big horsepower; 360HP to be exact, and it is about the size of a 5er, and I've heard that it has great handling:thumbup:; also it has the nicest interior I've seen on a GM in this price bracket:thumbup::thumbup:. Forgot about the manual coming soon after launch.

What do you think about this car.

[BForbes]

The panel gaps are enough to deter me from GM. Go check out Pontiacs highest product. The fit and finish is not even up to Japanese standards. This car could possibly be different since it was designed for australia but I dont know.

[Victor.L3IchibanM3]

Originally Posted by 1drive

It's a more practical car with big horsepower; 360HP to be exact, and it is about the size of a 5er, and I've heard that it has great handling:thumbup:; also it has the nicest interior I've seen on a GM in this price bracket:thumbup::thumbup:. Forgot about the manual coming soon after launch.

What do you think about this car.

[imported_THE JEDI]

Come on man stop bashing american cars okay it's getting old I love my bimmers, but when you things like that it's a put down to our american work ethic..just say ya like bimmers better...I'd buy the Pontiac if it looked like the show car, thats where Gm keeps making it mistakes saying look at what we could be build ya..but you get this.....

[atr_hugo]

Originally Posted by onehots2k

The panel gaps are enough to deter me from GM.

So 'onehost2k', what's an A margin as opposed to V margin? Remember, you're the one talking about panel gaps - this is a test. Extra credit - what's the rule of thumb for which side to gap a panel correctly on a horizontal panel?

And it's no fair criticizing panel gaps on plastic paneled cars (super duper bonus points if you know why plastic panel cars have larger gaps ; -).

[Brookside]

Also consider Kia Sportage, Hyundai Elantra, Saturn Skyy, Ford Mustang,
Chevrolet Cobalt.:biggrin::wink:

Seriously there'll be a difference you can see/feel/touch. There's a lot of us who would love to see American cars be more than competetive-
but any test drive is going to convince you otherwise about which is the best model- in spite of cash savings.

BMW's work as an ensemble-they consider how the entire package works together. I think that's my favorite aspect of every bimmer.

[atr_hugo]

The Pontiac G8 is a big car - Holden platform. It will be well built, tight and a good driver - it will have IRS, and it'll have a very decent interior. I saw the thing pretty close at its press debut in Chicago last year.

That said it'll be thristy in town and depending on whether they put cylinder deactivation on it - it'll have to have an awfully tall sixth gear to deliver decent highway economy. The build quality of GM cars is not all that bad and getting better - Lutz (who used to work for BMW before Chrysler, BTW) is making progress.

But, to Brookside's point, there is a 'cut from whole cloth' feel to some cars that doesn't exist in others (and that goes for most cars on the market sadly).

[Brookside]

Originally Posted by atr_hugo

But, to Brookside's point, there is a 'cut from whole cloth' feel to some cars that doesn't exist in others (and that goes for most cars on the market sadly).

One of my bro-in-laws has an Accord coupe. Anyway he noticed how the sound of the door closing on my Z4 is kind of hollow.
ka-thunk-chunk.
Then he goes over and slams the door of his pos Honda- gorgeous solid single sound.
So I don't say anything...like this is the ultimate test...door slams- and Honda wins by a mile.
ergo-ipso-facto baby!

:wink:

[atr_hugo]

Yeah - but most convertible doors clunk instead of 'bank vault' ka-thunk. ; -)

And what's fun is talking to manufacturing types (and the engineering staff) about how to make the door sound like a bank vault closing. They actually are after that sound. They go to great lengths to engineer that sound into the door. (And I won't even begin to describe the reverse engineering process detailed to me by a group of engineers for exhaust sound. ; -)

[BForbes]

Originally Posted by Brookside

One of my bro-in-laws has an Accord coupe. Anyway he noticed how the sound of the door closing on my Z4 is kind of hollow.
ka-thunk-chunk.
Then he goes over and slams the door of his pos Honda- gorgeous solid single sound.
So I don't say anything...like this is the ultimate test...door slams- and Honda wins by a mile.
ergo-ipso-facto baby!

:wink:

Wow, I thought I was the only one that notices that! I do think it varies though. My brothers 06 Ridgeline's doors do sound hollow. :iono: What I do miss about the new BMW's are that really HEAVY sound. Someone should open and slam the door on an E46 Coupe. It's the equivalent of slamming a bank vault. I love it!

Come to think of it Art, my s2k clunks.

[BForbes]

Originally Posted by atr_hugo

So 'onehost2k', what's an A margin as opposed to V margin? Remember, you're the one talking about panel gaps - this is a test. Extra credit - what's the rule of thumb for which side to gap a panel correctly on a horizontal panel?

And it's no fair criticizing panel gaps on plastic paneled cars (super duper bonus points if you know why plastic panel cars have larger gaps ; -).

Art, why must you test me so early in the morning!! I've got enough tests this week. All 'onehots2k' knows is that he dosent like them. Even Cadillac's grand daddy of cars have the panel gaps(Escalade). To believe the Pontiac G8 will eclipse Caddillacs is a stretch. But on another note, I will admit that they have gotten soo much better!! But so have the competitors.

[ducati]

I was in a bad accident in my wife's old Saab 9-3. It took nearly 4 months to get it back from the dealer who fixed it. In the meantime, we were given a rental by the insurance co. of the gentleman* who hit me. The rental was a Pontiac Grand Prix.

I offered to drive the rental, so my wife wouldn't have to suffer in a slushbox American boat. What a mistake that was. I call it "automotive purgatory" and it was one of the worst driving experiences of my life. Lots of torque, but loud and ultimately flaccid engine. Overly soft and large seats that were quite uncomfortable. Mushy brakes. Steering that wandered on center with no feel. Marshmallow pillow ride. Vague sense of changing direction. Fisher price plastic interior. Too large on the road, too ponderous. I will find that image of Pontiac very difficult to shake from my consciousness.

I would try a Solstice, though, maybe. So maybe there's hope for Pontiac in my future.

*I use this term quite loosely for the drugged-up jerk

[atr_hugo]

A-margin and V-margin describe the gap variance on a vertical panel - A is narrow on top, wide at the bottom, V is just the opposite.

You gap the horizontal panels (hood, rear deck-lid) on the driver's side exactly - the panel gap on the passenger side is left to carry the variance (which makes sense since the driver approaches the vehicle from that side).

Plastic panels (plastic - not necessarily fibreglass) expand and contract more than metal panels hence require larger gaps (think Saturn).

And the Pontiac and Cadillac cars, not SUVs, the 'sclade is a stinking tarted up Tahoe, are getting much, much better than just a couple of years ago. I will be the first to tell you how junky Potiacs were not that long ago (crappy Grand Prix, hence the "Pontiac: We Build Driving Excrement") but I'll also be the first to say that they are much better now.

[BForbes]

Originally Posted by atr_hugo

A-margin and V-margin describe the gap variance on a vertical panel - A is narrow on top, wide at the bottom, V is just the opposite.

You gap the horizontal panels (hood, rear deck-lid) on the driver's side exactly - the panel gap on the passenger side is left to carry the variance (which makes sense since the driver approaches the vehicle from that side).

Plastic panels (plastic - not necessarily fibreglass) expand and contract more than metal panels hence require larger gaps (think Saturn).

And the Pontiac and Cadillac cars, not SUVs, the 'sclade is a stinking tarted up Tahoe, are getting much, much better than just a couple of years ago. I will be the first to tell you how junky Potiacs were not that long ago (crappy Grand Prix, hence the "Pontiac: We Build Driving Excrement") but I'll also be the first to say that they are much better now.

Be that as it may, the 'sclade has the best interior out of any GM car they make. That is not an opinion. That is a fact. They even say that in their advertisements. I'm guilty of calling it a juiced up Tahoe myself, but after further inspection "juiced up" is an absolute understatement. Just about every luxury feature available on the planet is in those cars...and then some. Weirdly enough, in the past month I've grown a lot of respect in Cadillac as a luxury maker. BTW, the new CTS uses the same interior plastics and materials as Mercedes-Benz. They are using the same supplier...can somebody say uh oh...at least thats what MotorTrend says.

[atr_hugo]

Automotive News runs a feature from time to time showing which suppliers are involved in a particular new car. Over the last few years the first, second and third tier suppliers have been collapsing and consolidating. The supplier side of the industry is something most folks don't even think about. But more and more - the suppliers are doing the manufacturing and the carmakers are doing what is known as 'final assembly'. Most new plants are built with 'supplier parks' incorporated on-site to facilitate this. Headliners come in completely assembled (all switchgear, wiring, etc), seats all done - ready to plug and bolt in. Most all of the suspension components come pre-assembled and are merely bolted into the chassis. So knowing that Cadillac and MB are getting components from say Collins & Aikman for example is not surprising at all.

[theslik1]

Originally Posted by Brookside

One of my bro-in-laws has an Accord coupe. Anyway he noticed how the sound of the door closing on my Z4 is kind of hollow.
ka-thunk-chunk.
Then he goes over and slams the door of his pos Honda- gorgeous solid single sound.
So I don't say anything...like this is the ultimate test...door slams- and Honda wins by a mile.
ergo-ipso-facto baby!

:wink:

Don't sweat it...my '98 Mitsu Spyder makes the same sound. The Ultimate Test, indeed. :wink:

As for the G8, isn't this the car that Holden "designed" by reverse-engineering the E39 ///M5? Or am I thinking of another Holden?

BTW, I'm not saying that's a bad thing if true...

[kurichan]

I drove a G6 (not G8) rental up in Sunnyvale a few weeks back. I expected typical American crapola, but I was really pleasantly surprised.

The car was well put together, handled well (for FWD), didn't have a rattle or shimmy, was really comfortable, and was practical.

I thought to myself with a chuckle, this car is almost Japanese!

Oh yeah - the stereo was FAR superior to the supposedly "premium" stereo in my ZHP...

[KingOfJericho]

I drive this car to work every day except it's called an Altima SE-R...

[Propagator]

Originally Posted by atr_hugo

Yeah - but most convertible doors clunk instead of 'bank vault' ka-thunk. ; -)

And what's fun is talking to manufacturing types (and the engineering staff) about how to make the door sound like a bank vault closing. They actually are after that sound. They go to great lengths to engineer that sound into the door. (And I won't even begin to describe the reverse engineering process detailed to me by a group of engineers for exhaust sound. ; -)

Interesting point. People do equate the door closing sound to the solidity of the car. My WRX doors sound horrible, probably because they don't have window frame and also Subaru doesn't have the resource to engineer in that sound. But it provides some of the very best side impact protection among small cars. :iono:

But to Brookside. Are you sure you won't use the sound of the door closing to your advantage IF your Z4 had nice bank vault sounding doors? :biggrin:

(BTW how many of you have actually heard bank vault closing? )

[atr_hugo]

Well I haven't been on the wrong side of a bank vault closing, but I have heard a bank vault close (and car doors don't really come that close to it ; -).

And you ARE onto something with the frameless doors sounding a bit less satisfying . . .

[kurichan]

In respect to door closing sounds:

Our 2000 528iT was solid - even vaultlike.

My 2004 E46 sedan was not nearly as much so (and the door hinges weren't aligned as perfectly as they could have been which exascerbated it).

My 2001 WRX, despite being a very highly rated car in terms of safety, sounded like a tin can when the doors were shut (frameless window was only a small part of this).

[1drive]

What I was thinking about was practicality. Since it's my only car I would tolerate worse panel fitting to get a larger sedan over a smaller coupe. It looks pretty good for a GM.