[vrships]

Just unlocked and flashed my Y20 m40i with BM3 stg1.

It is a lot of fun logging and testing. But a lot of questions, too.

I am on ACN 91 gases and had a large amount of timing pulls on ACN 91 stg 1, which is supposed to be very conservative. Surpassingly the stock tune has even worse timing pull. Trying to figure out if it's the engine's problem or the fuel is beyond crappy.

The car feels quite different and the bubble is awesome. But at WOT I couldn't tell if there's major power improvement. 0-100 pull only shows ~0.2s improvement tested multiple (10+) times. Is that expected? (how am I gonna get any closer to suby's 3.2s??)

I saw 3 series forums have dedicated threads to discuss BM3 logging and advices. Do we have a similar one here?

[suby01]

Fuel does make a difference. I run E85 that alone is 100+ HP in just a fuel tank.

Next is you need a downpipe. Catless for best results. The B58 needs air flow and the DP is the best 1st choice. Youre on all stock hardware with stage 1 thats just allowing you to go a small bit beyond stock. BM3 stage 2 even 93 is where the party just starts.

Post a datalog link also. Im curious to see how it looks on your stock setup.

[speedsnice]

Going to ship the DME on my 2023 soon to FEMTO. Looking forward to a stage 2 Bootmod3 flash.
Current mods are Active Autowerke catted downpipe and SuperSprint catback. MST intake as well just for noise.

[AshtonPJT]

Originally Posted by vrships

Just unlocked and flashed my Y20 m40i with BM3 stg1.

It is a lot of fun logging and testing. But a lot of questions, too.

I am on ACN 91 gases and had a large amount of timing pulls on ACN 91 stg 1, which is supposed to be very conservative. Surpassingly the stock tune has even worse timing pull. Trying to figure out if it's the engine's problem or the fuel is beyond crappy.

The car feels quite different and the bubble is awesome. But at WOT I couldn't tell if there's major power improvement. 0-100 pull only shows ~0.2s improvement tested multiple (10+) times. Is that expected? (how am I gonna get any closer to suby's 3.2s??)

I saw 3 series forums have dedicated threads to discuss BM3 logging and advices. Do we have a similar one here?

If you post logs I would be more than happy to help. Most likely it’s crappy fuel. Due to the b58s high compression it’s not very forgiving on crap fuel compared to the s58 with low compression you can run crap fuel and still push a good bit of timing. On my car I’m able to push about 17psi with 12.5deg of timing with 93 but this is also a very dialed in tune.

[AshtonPJT]

Originally Posted by suby01

Fuel does make a difference. I run E85 that alone is 100+ HP in just a fuel tank.

Next is you need a downpipe. Catless for best results. The B58 needs air flow and the DP is the best 1st choice. Youre on all stock hardware with stage 1 thats just allowing you to go a small bit beyond stock. BM3 stage 2 even 93 is where the party just starts.

Post a datalog link also. Im curious to see how it looks on your stock setup.

Glad you still love the tune!

[Gr8ZongB58]

Ethanol(hello timing!), downpipe, and xhp is all you are missing for a good time! Might also invest in a flex fuel kit in case ethanol is not readily available.

[vrships]

Originally Posted by AshtonPJT

If you post logs I would be more than happy to help. Most likely it’s crappy fuel. Due to the b58s high compression it’s not very forgiving on crap fuel compared to the s58 with low compression you can run crap fuel and still push a good bit of timing. On my car I’m able to push about 17psi with 12.5deg of timing with 93 but this is also a very dialed in tune.

My stock has around 19-22psi boost and the stage 1 runs a much more consistent 21-22psi.

The timing is actually more conservative on stg1 surprisingly , making only 4 degrees after the correction at 6500rpm, while below 4000 rpm the timing was mostly zero or negative.

The stock tries harder on timing but has correction 6-7 degrees for all cylinders and occasionally some knocks. LolThat looks quite concerning.

Stock map:
https://bootmod3.net/log?id=65a51bf3949d7f1f1e653d01

ACN 91 stg1:
https://bootmod3.net/log?id=65a62f11949d7f1f1e65b13a

[vrships]

Originally Posted by Gr8ZongB58

Ethanol(hello timing!), downpipe, and xhp is all you are missing for a good time! Might also invest in a flex fuel kit in case ethanol is not readily available.

Exactly what I plan to get for the final form of this car. Does the flex fuel mean you can literally pump any mixture of E85 and gasoline and the map will figure out the best ? Or standard mixture like E30 or E50 still runs better than others in the middle?

[Gr8ZongB58]

Originally Posted by vrships

Exactly what I plan to get for the final form of this car. Does the flex fuel mean you can literally pump any mixture of E85 and gasoline and the map will figure out the best ? Or standard mixture like E30 or E50 still runs better than others in the middle?

Precisely. I've ran from e30-70 and tested with both flex fuel and dedicated e maps, I butt dyno no difference. It definitely is convenient. I mainly try and target e40 because I feel that is the optimal power for my current setup. I've specifically asked mhd about the e maps vs flex fuel, they told me there is no difference in performance unless you go custom tune.

[Burr001]

Originally Posted by vrships

Exactly what I plan to get for the final form of this car. Does the flex fuel mean you can literally pump any mixture of E85 and gasoline and the map will figure out the best ? Or standard mixture like E30 or E50 still runs better than others in the middle?

the flex fuel tune will automatically scale the tune to what the E reading is.

[AshtonPJT]

Sorry I’ve been busy the last few days with some developmental stuff we are currently testing. I’ll look at the logs in the morning and let you know what I think.

[Gr8ZongB58]

Originally Posted by vrships

My stock has around 19-22psi boost and the stage 1 runs a much more consistent 21-22psi.

The timing is actually more conservative on stg1 surprisingly , making only 4 degrees after the correction at 6500rpm, while below 4000 rpm the timing was mostly zero or negative.

The stock tries harder on timing but has correction 6-7 degrees for all cylinders and occasionally some knocks. LolThat looks quite concerning.

Stock map:
https://bootmod3.net/log?id=65a51bf3949d7f1f1e653d01

ACN 91 stg1:
https://bootmod3.net/log?id=65a62f11949d7f1f1e65b13a

Yeah, that just looks like crappy fuel. Not surprising to see it starving for fuel after 6.5k+ as your hpfp dropped about 400 psi. And the need more fuel at earlier RPM range as the engine pushes the hpfp in 3rd gear @30mph.

Top off your tank with about 1-3 gallons of ethanol(dependant on what your gas station is pumping out) and you would probably see all that cleaned up much better.

[vrships]

Originally Posted by AshtonPJT

Sorry I’ve been busy the last few days with some developmental stuff we are currently testing. I’ll look at the logs in the morning and let you know what I think.

No worries.

Yesterday I just decided to mix with some high octane fuel at a local race fuel stop.

I added 2 gallons of 96 ($7.7/gallon) to the remaining tank of ~ 1 gallon ACN 91. This way I suppose the mixture rating is well above 93?

Then I flashed the car with Stage 1 93. And hell no, the timing pull is horrible! I got over ~ 4 degrees most of the time. The log does show the torque value is significantly higher than ACN 91 above 5000 rpm, meaning higher peak horsepower.

https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=65b1...d5c02bfd861d1d

So is a stage 1 93 map supposed to have so many timing pulls? What should a log look like in other states with quality 93 fuel?

But this fuel does clean up all the timing pull using ACN 91 map. Yeah us Californians have to spend ~ $8 on the fuel just to run the most conservative maps.

[strohw]

Originally Posted by vrships

But this fuel does clean up all the timing pull using ACN 91 map. Yeah us Californians have to spend ~ $8 on the fuel just to run the most conservative maps.

Most people mix in from e85 pumps. What's that running over there?

[vrships]

Originally Posted by strohw

Most people mix in from e85 pumps. What's that running over there?

Haven't decided to do it yet. As we have crappy fuels, we may also have crappy E85. And they may be E60, E70... I am a little reluctant to try it before I test the exact ethanol%.

[Gr8ZongB58]

Originally Posted by vrships

Haven't decided to do it yet. As we have crappy fuels, we may also have crappy E85. And they may be E60, E70... I am a little reluctant to try it before I test the exact ethanol%.

Where did you lose timing? Seems like you gained timing with the 93 map with your added 96 gas versus your previous 91 map with 91 gas.

As long as you're not negative timing during wot, that is good.

[vrships]

Originally Posted by Gr8ZongB58

Where did you lose timing? Seems like you gained timing with the 93 map with your added 96 gas versus your previous 91 map with 91 gas.

As long as you're not negative timing during wot, that is good.

Yeah, the timing itself is much more advanced and that's why it gained power at high RPM.

I was talking about ignition timing corrections. Ideally those should be zero indicating that the engine is happy with the advanced in timing the DME plans. If it detects any knock, or anything makes it uncomfortable to follow the target timing, the DME will correct it, which is always a negative value. Too many corrections means the timing target is not suitable for the fuel or engine condition, it is too aggressive.

I still don't know how much correction is acceptable. In some videos I see B58 should be fine if all timings corrections are less than -3. Clearly I got too many -4, -5 with 93 map.
But my stock map gives me -6 &-7 for years with regular fuels. So I wondered if I worried too much or what.

[Gr8ZongB58]

Originally Posted by vrships

Yeah, the timing itself is much more advanced and that's why it gained power at high RPM.

I was talking about ignition timing corrections. Ideally those should be zero indicating that the engine is happy with the advanced in timing the DME plans. If it detects any knock, or anything makes it uncomfortable to follow the target timing, the DME will correct it, which is always a negative value. Too many corrections means the timing target is not suitable for the fuel or engine condition, it is too aggressive.

I still don't know how much correction is acceptable. In some videos I see B58 should be fine if all timings corrections are less than -3. Clearly I got too many -4, -5 with 93 map.
But my stock map gives me -6 &-7 for years with regular fuels. So I wondered if I worried too much or what.

Yeah you're right. You did gain timing but it still consistantly pulls timing in all cylinders. All kinda points to bad quality gas.

I haven't saved any logs lately but I do have one log from last year running strictly shell 93 here on the east coast. My corrections are all 0 with 1 or 2 cylinders at the top of the rev range ~1.5-2 degrees.

https://datazap.me/u/greatzong/run1-...46&zoom=26-105

[vrships]

Originally Posted by Gr8ZongB58

Yeah you're right. You did gain timing but it still consistantly pulls timing in all cylinders. All kinda points to bad quality gas.

I haven't saved any logs lately but I do have one log from last year running strictly shell 93 here on the east coast. My corrections are all 0 with 1 or 2 cylinders at the top of the rev range ~1.5-2 degrees.

https://datazap.me/u/greatzong/run1-...46&zoom=26-105

Hmm. I could not see any log from this link. Although I can upload mine own and see them with a similar link.

But corrections on only 2 cylinders with <3 degrees on a 93 map is beyond what I can dream off. Are you running any different spark plugs than OEM?

[Gr8ZongB58]

Originally Posted by vrships

Hmm. I could not see any log from this link. Although I can upload mine own and see them with a similar link.

But corrections on only 2 cylinders with <3 degrees on a 93 map is beyond what I can dream off. Are you running any different spark plugs than OEM?

Oops, I think it was still set on private. I'll set it to public. Try again maybe.

https://datazap.me/u/greatzong/run1-...46&zoom=29-105

For spark plugs, I switched to NGK 94201 gapped at .022"

The gap is of course controversial but I wanted to experience since my 30k miles factory champion plugs were all over the place in gap ranging between .029-.035"

Personally, I don't notice any difference(butt dyno detecs more crispyness?). Overall, I just prefer them to be uniform in gap.

[vrships]

Originally Posted by Gr8ZongB58

Oops, I think it was still set on private. I'll set it to public. Try again maybe.

https://datazap.me/u/greatzong/run1-...46&zoom=29-105

For spark plugs, I switched to NGK 94201 gapped at .022"

The gap is of course controversial but I wanted to experience since my 30k miles factory champion plugs were all over the place in gap ranging between .029-.035"

Personally, I don't notice any difference(butt dyno detecs more crispyness?). Overall, I just prefer them to be uniform in gap.

Thanks. Is your stage 2 map? I am setting your clutch torque measured is much higher than mine. I wish I could have timing corrections clean like this with real 93 octane.

And the issue is probably with the spark plugs. I replaced them with NGK 96206 about 6 months ago because these were stated to fit M340i and M440i models past 2020. There is so much confusion whether 94201 or 96206 should be used... but maybe it's that 2mm additional reach that creates more detonation

[Gr8ZongB58]

Originally Posted by vrships

Thanks. Is your stage 2 map? I am setting your clutch torque measured is much higher than mine. I wish I could have timing corrections clean like this with real 93 octane.

And the issue is probably with the spark plugs. I replaced them with NGK 96206 about 6 months ago because these were stated to fit M340i and M440i models past 2020. There is so much confusion whether 94201 or 96206 should be used... but maybe it's that 2mm additional reach that creates more detonation

Yes. It is my stage 2. I'm running MHD though so the tunes may differ. Do you also run xhp? I've maxed out my torque limiters with their flash.

Assuming you have the gen2 b58, simply looking up the 96206 plugs tells me they are used in s58 and b58. My gen1 only has 94201. Hopefully someone else can chime in on this. Too many sites giving out different information has also brought me into a state of confusion 😅