[lowrydr310]

I'm not even talking about styling, though you could argue they continue to go down the wrong direction in that area too. I get it, they need to push boundaries. In some cases their 'edgy' initially unaccepted design language becomes mainstream and eventually looks good. (Though certain models like the pre-LCI E65 Bangle 7 will never look good no matter how hard one tries.)

I'm talking about the driving dynamics, and even the interior styling and materials. I've driven all sorts of non-M BMWs and they all have that distinct BMW feel. Excellent handling. Nice interior that is definitively BMW, like if you were to hide the badges and put a stranger in it, you'd still know it's a BMW.

I recently rented a G21 LCI 320d for a week. It definitely looks like a BMW, and I even LIKE the styling of the wagon over the sedan. But driving the thing? Sure it was comfortable and no real complaints, just that it didn't *feel* like a BMW. You could put Kia badges inside this thing and I wouldn't know the difference. Just soft and boring. No different than any other car on the market. No soul. I know the F30 gets a lot of hate for starting that downward path, but a friend of mine has a F30 328i with Dinan suspension bits and even that car felt more BMW like than the current G20.

The engine was nice, plenty of power for everyday driving and I averaged just over 50MPG though it was very light driving, nothing sporting or aggressive. They say nobody wants small Diesels in the USA... I do.

[MJBO]

Buy something else then.

I love my G81, it's insanely good.

[NickyC]

They're just heavy, very ugly cars now (for the most part). It is a shame.

[Clark_Kent]

BMW has evolved into a mass market auto manufacturer. At this juncture they're not much different than Volkswagen or Toyota in the sense that they're widely available, offer several vehicle options, and are designed for mass appeal. While I enjoyed the few M cars I owned, I will never buy another BMW.

[pikkagtr]

Albert Biermann left M
so that last GOOD BMW was the F80
now they are just churning out heavy bloated boats with lots of power to go straight
a face only a blind mother can love
the best BMW on sale currently wears a Toyota GR Badge

[lowrydr310]

Originally Posted by MJBO

Buy something else then.

I love my G81, it's insanely good.

Ah but that's an M car. They're different... though I haven't personally driven one yet. I'm talking the non-M cars.

Though that 320d had M badges everywhere... on the fenders, door sills, dash,

[MJBO]

Originally Posted by pikkagtr

Albert Biermann left M
so that last GOOD BMW was the F80
now they are just churning out heavy bloated boats with lots of power to go straight

Tell me you haven't driven a G8x without telling me you haven't driven a G8x

[///MPhatic]

The entire G-series is off the table IMO.

Gone are the glory days of beauty and driving dynamics, it's all fat-cat numbers now. Keep it.

[pikkagtr]

Originally Posted by MJBO

Tell me you haven't driven a G8x without telling me you haven't driven a G8x

I've owned 2 F80s, my current daily is an E92 MSport. I test drive the G80 at the thermal performance center and hated it. 4000 lbs is a mustang not an M car
Is it fast? Of course! Does it handle well and hide it's weight ? Yes
Is it dynamically a good car? Not even close
The F87 vs G87 is a great example of where BMW went wrong

[Clark_Kent]

Originally Posted by MJBO

Tell me you haven't driven a G8x without telling me you haven't driven a G8x

The M cars aren't exempt. BMW has losers up and down the product lineup. It's a shame really. Oh well, lucky for me I'm not a brand loyalist. I happily took my monies elsewhere.

[RigaTony1982]

Originally Posted by lowrydr310

Ah but that's an M car. They're different... though I haven't personally driven one yet. I'm talking the non-M cars.

Though that 320d had M badges everywhere... on the fenders, door sills, dash,

My Z4 is a non-M car, and is my favorite car I’ve owned. Think it really depends on the model. I could see a 320 being targeted at just someone who wants a BMW badge.

[noemon]

Originally Posted by pikkagtr

I've owned 2 F80s, my current daily is an E92 MSport. I test drive the G80 at the thermal performance center and hated it. 4000 lbs is a mustang not an M car
Is it fast? Of course! Does it handle well and hide it's weight ? Yes
Is it dynamically a good car? Not even close
The F87 vs G87 is a great example of where BMW went wrong

From the new gen, only the M2 is where it's at.

I hated both the G80 and the F90. Too big, bulky and heavy. The F10 was that too but it did not break your ribs pretending to be a sports car like the F90 does, hence why the M550 is actually the equivalent to the F10 M5, .ie a proper GT car and not a frankenstein that is neither a GT, nor a family car, nor a sports car.

[Chihuahua]

Originally Posted by lowrydr310

I'm not even talking about styling, though you could argue they continue to go down the wrong direction in that area too. I get it, they need to push boundaries. In some cases their 'edgy' initially unaccepted design language becomes mainstream and eventually looks good. (Though certain models like the pre-LCI E65 Bangle 7 will never look good no matter how hard one tries.)

I'm talking about the driving dynamics, and even the interior styling and materials. I've driven all sorts of non-M BMWs and they all have that distinct BMW feel. Excellent handling. Nice interior that is definitively BMW, like if you were to hide the badges and put a stranger in it, you'd still know it's a BMW.

I recently rented a G21 LCI 320d for a week. It definitely looks like a BMW, and I even LIKE the styling of the wagon over the sedan. But driving the thing? Sure it was comfortable and no real complaints, just that it didn't *feel* like a BMW. You could put Kia badges inside this thing and I wouldn't know the difference. Just soft and boring. No different than any other car on the market. No soul. I know the F30 gets a lot of hate for starting that downward path, but a friend of mine has a F30 328i with Dinan suspension bits and even that car felt more BMW like than the current G20.

The engine was nice, plenty of power for everyday driving and I averaged just over 50MPG though it was very light driving, nothing sporting or aggressive. They say nobody wants small Diesels in the USA... I do.

Weight, turbos, and electric steering. I don't necessarily blame BMW though, they have to comply with regulations that are getting more and more strict. If you want the true-blue BMW experience, go buy anything that has an EXX chassis designation.

[mjj]

Originally Posted by Clark_Kent

Thr M cars aren't exempt. BMW has losers up and down the product lineup. It's a shame really. Oh well, lucky for me I'm not a brand loyalist. I happily took my monies elsewhere.

What are you driving now?

[Clark_Kent]

Originally Posted by mjj

What are you driving now?

Several cars, but for purposes of this discussion a Porsche GT car.

[NickyC]

Originally Posted by Clark_Kent

Several cars, but for purposes of this discussion a Porsche GT car.

Yep, lots of F8X owners have moved away from BMW due to the recent G8X disappointments. If I ever grow tired of my M4 CS, I will likely look to other car brands as well for the first time in over 25 years. If m really bummed out about it as well because I’ve loved my BMWs (well, most of them anyway).

[swagon]

Originally Posted by lowrydr310

I'm not even talking about styling, though you could argue they continue to go down the wrong direction in that area too. I get it, they need to push boundaries. In some cases their 'edgy' initially unaccepted design language becomes mainstream and eventually looks good. (Though certain models like the pre-LCI E65 Bangle 7 will never look good no matter how hard one tries.)

I'm talking about the driving dynamics, and even the interior styling and materials. I've driven all sorts of non-M BMWs and they all have that distinct BMW feel. Excellent handling. Nice interior that is definitively BMW, like if you were to hide the badges and put a stranger in it, you'd still know it's a BMW.

I recently rented a G21 LCI 320d for a week. It definitely looks like a BMW, and I even LIKE the styling of the wagon over the sedan. But driving the thing? Sure it was comfortable and no real complaints, just that it didn't *feel* like a BMW. You could put Kia badges inside this thing and I wouldn't know the difference. Just soft and boring. No different than any other car on the market. No soul. I know the F30 gets a lot of hate for starting that downward path, but a friend of mine has a F30 328i with Dinan suspension bits and even that car felt more BMW like than the current G20.

The engine was nice, plenty of power for everyday driving and I averaged just over 50MPG though it was very light driving, nothing sporting or aggressive. They say nobody wants small Diesels in the USA... I do.

You drove a two-litre diesel station wagon and thought it was not sporty and aggressive enough???

Breaking news, base BMWs that are bought for fleet use or families are not as fun. Go drive an E36 316i and tell me you're having fun with the measly 75 kW and slow-ass steering.

That said, yes, the E90 is peak 3 Series. I have an G21 Alpina and I can tell you it's "fun" for an AWD two-tonne station wagon, but I do miss the E91 from a driving perspective still.

This thread here has of course steered into a chat about M cars only, which only take up a rather small percentage of sold BMWs.

G3x 5er, G05 X5, G2x 3er, they're all really great all-rounders - better than their predecessors in a lot of ways - though heavily dependent on how optioned they are. More than ever before whilst having to adhere to connectivity, safety and eco bullshit regulations and customer expectations.

[No one]

Originally Posted by Clark_Kent

Several cars, but for purposes of this discussion a Porsche GT car.

A Porsche Carrera GT? In this discussion that should mean Porsche lost it's way too, there's nowhere to run. And you took your monies there just because that amount would buy you a useless/ridiculous number of BMWs.

[lowrydr310]

Originally Posted by swagon

You drove a two-litre diesel station wagon and thought it was not sporty and aggressive enough???

Breaking news, base BMWs that are bought for fleet use or families are not as fun. Go drive an E36 316i and tell me you're having fun with the measly 75 kW and slow-ass steering.

That said, yes, the E90 is peak 3 Series. I have an G21 Alpina and I can tell you it's "fun" for an AWD two-tonne station wagon, but I do miss the E91 from a driving perspective still.

This thread here has of course steered into a chat about M cars only, which only take up a rather small percentage of sold BMWs.

G3x 5er, G05 X5, G2x 3er, they're all really great all-rounders - better than their predecessors in a lot of ways - though heavily dependent on how optioned they are. More than ever before whilst having to adhere to connectivity, safety and eco bullshit regulations and customer expectations.

I've driven an e36 318 before and despite soft in terms of power delivery, the car and handling still felt very BMW-like. Had a F20 118i recently as well, VERY impressed with that car! Definitely not a powerhouse by any means, but still had the distinct BMW feel that I love. This G21 was very different from those. Not power but overall feel of the car, just felt bulky and soft, and more cramped inside than my E90.

I haven't given up completely. I'll do one of these performance driving events and I'm looking forward to trying G80 and G87...

[erickonphoenix]

Long time BMW owner

Our fleet is
1999 Toyota 4 Runner
1999 Toyota Camry
2004 Mercedes ML500
2014 BMW 328xi
2018 Honda Accord Sport

BMW closest rival is our Accord Sport and it's not even close. The Accord is a boat compared to this F30. I still prefer the steering on my E46 but it's still better than most cars out there at it's price point.

[No one]

Originally Posted by lowrydr310

Had a F20 118i recently as well, VERY impressed with that car! Definitely not a powerhouse by any means, but still had the distinct BMW feel that I love.

It must have had the M-Sport suspension (option) at the very least. People claimed it was a boat on stock suspension compared to the previous 1 Series generation and electric power steering was no match for hydraulic (I never drove an older BMW myself).

[/ / / M3]

Originally Posted by lowrydr310

I recently rented a G21 LCI 320d for a week. It definitely looks like a BMW, and I even LIKE the styling of the wagon over the sedan. But driving the thing? Sure it was comfortable and no real complaints, just that it didn't *feel* like a BMW. You could put Kia badges inside this thing and I wouldn't know the difference. Just soft and boring. No different than any other car on the market. No soul. I know the F30 gets a lot of hate for starting that downward path, but a friend of mine has a F30 328i with Dinan suspension bits and even that car felt more BMW like than the current G20.

I had a G21 320d as a rental in Europe last summer and though it was pretty decent for what it was - a base model with a 4-cylinder diesel engine. It didn't feel any less of a driver's car than a base model E90 or F30 to me. I also drove an M340i and while no M3, that car was a lot of fun to drive (and a huge upgrade over a base 3-series).