[Jack in Jax]

Just thought I'd add a bit of news for fun: A BMW 520d recently went against a Toyota Prius on a 565-mile real-world London-to-Geneva mileage challenge...with 100 miles of city driving thrown in at the end (supposedly, Prius' meat & potatoes). The 520d got 41.9 mpg, the Prius (500# lighter) got 40.1 mpg (U.S. gals). This was sponsored by the Times of London after it got numerous complaint letters from Prius owners about poor mileage on their 'green' cars.

Last laugh: The Prius ran out of gas near the finish line. The 520d arrived with 1/3 of a tank remaining.

Jack

[adam135aoc]

old news... but you are correct... there are a lot of diesel vehicles that out do the prius in gas mileage...

[adam135aoc]

suzuki swift 1.3l diesel get 65mpg lets see a prius do that

[BMW Dreamer]

Can these cars be purchased in the U.S.A. ??? Thats the question.

[cracka]

In mixed city & urban highway driving, we get about 44 MPG without trying in our Prius. When applying some conservative techniques (feathering the accelerator, no more than 65 MPH, easy starts, no A/C or heat) it's not a problem to get 51-52 MPG.

My point being what the hell were they doing to eek out 40 MPG in theirs?

As a point of reference, I'm averaging about 22 MPG in my 135i on the same routes. My driving style is a bit different in the 1er. :biggrin:

[BMW Dreamer]

I have also read alot about the Prius getting great MPG. It depends how you drive it. Thats part of the reason all the info on your driving habits are right in front of you on the Prius screen. It keeps you aware of your driving habits, after awhile it becomes 2nd nature. Then the car gets great MPG. Plus the Prius gets some of the HIGHEST ratings for reliability. They also brought out a new Prius thats stripped and cheaper to buy.

[Nixon]

There are SO many cars built around the world that will match or beat the Prius in fuel consumption that it isn't even funny. Gas powered, diesel powered, propane powered, you name it.

They just aren't sold in the US.

Just about every car maker, including the Big 2.5 american car companies, have more fuel efficient cars for sell in the rest of the world besides the US. Even Toyota has more fuel efficient cars they sell in other parts of the world then what they sell in the US.

The question is, what is it going to take to get some of these sold in the US?

[canlefty]

Originally Posted by Nixon

The question is, what is it going to take to get some of these sold in the US?

About 200 million brain transplants (I'll give 100 million the benefit of the doubt), and the public execution of everyone involved in marketing from the "big 4" or however few there are now.

[PA135i]

I asked this in another post, have kidding. But, what can a Prius do 0 -60?

I'll take my 135i. During the work week I'll drive efficiently and get 20 -22 mpg. On the weekends or when the need is there to pass someone, I'll leave them so far in the rear view that they'll look like a nat in 4 seconds. That thrill and fun factor is worth it to me.

This wait is killing me. Not even a production number yet.

[Russo]

VW GTI D does some 45+ mpg... priced lower too i think...

[Nixon]

Originally Posted by kja325ci

I asked this in another post, half kidding. But, what can a Prius do 0 -60?

That's my point, actually, for why BMW should be importing the 123d today.

Why drive a FWD Prius with 0-60 in about 10 seconds, when a chipped 123d gets around the same mpg, has RWD, rock solid handling, and will burn off the tires doing 0-60 somewhere in the 6-second range? That's around the same as the early 2000's 330i. Nobody confused the 330i for being Prius-like dog slow.

I'll take 330i-like performance with Prius-like mpg over the Prius any day.

[ARES45]

Ditto Nixon

[PA135i]

Your right. Not to mention the Prius is VERY odd looking.

[jeremyc74]

Originally Posted by cracka

In mixed city & urban highway driving, we get about 44 MPG without trying in our Prius. When applying some conservative techniques (feathering the accelerator, no more than 65 MPH, easy starts, no A/C or heat) it's not a problem to get 51-52 MPG.

My point being what the hell were they doing to eek out 40 MPG in theirs?

I get about exactly the same results in our Prius, and I have the exact same question. I ran the living hell out of ours just to see what would happen and I wound up with 39MPG.

My guess is they averaged over 80MPH on the entire highway portion to stack the deck against the Prius. In the real world it's rare to ever see anything below 43MPG, even on road trips that are nearly all highway.

[jeremyc74]

Originally Posted by Nixon

The question is, what is it going to take to get some of these sold in the US?

The answer is very simple. All they have to do is meet the emissions standards in the US. By the time they pile on the equipment to do that, in most cases the mileage has suffered and the price has gone up. People can say what they want about diesel emissions, but I'd rather be locked in a garage with a running Prius over a TDI any day of the week.

[ihatepostmodernism]

Originally Posted by canlefty

About 200 million brain transplants (I'll give 100 million the benefit of the doubt), and the public execution of everyone involved in marketing from the "big 4" or however few there are now.

good answer

[Kayne]

Bring diesels to the USA!

[canlefty]

Originally Posted by Kayne

Bring diesels to the USA!

I agree, but better bring some refineries to go along with :wink:

[oneaabe]

Originally Posted by jeremyc74

The answer is very simple. All they have to do is meet the emissions standards in the US.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I thought that the emissions standards in Europe were tougher !?:iono:

[Jack in Jax]

What "standards" actually apply thru-out the EU is a very complicated reality. Bottom line: Don't think of the EU as a single, Federal system like the USA or Canada...but rather as a Confederation such as the USA started with. "States" rule, and the overarching (EU) govt. can only call the shots on the edges.

For many decades, European motorists have paid highly for fuel because it's heavily taxed - ergo, the popularity of diesel cars of all sizes (better mileage, no fuel price penalty). For many decades, N American drivers have enjoyed cheap fuel - ergo, the popularity of gas engines (poorer mileage but more power). We still pay less than half the amount Europeans do for a liter or gallon of gasoline; e.g. last time I bought gas in London (9/07) it was $8 USD/gallon.

I've been looking...but so far found no business rationale offered by any oil company why U.S. diesel has a +$.60/gal price point. Sure, perhaps a $.05 add'l cost for distribution - assuming the goal is to punish diesel fuel buyers for buying diesel. But $.60/gallon or 15% more cost for a less refined product that's still distributed widely? Come on...

Jack

[jeremyc74]

Originally Posted by oneaabe

Correct me if I am wrong, but I thought that the emissions standards in Europe were tougher !?:iono:

Nope. CA has the toughest vehicle emissions standards in the world, with the rest of the US not too far behind. The difference is in the levels in which various components of exhaust gasses are regulated.

I'm not an expert on the subject, but the way I understand it the US is much tougher on particulates than most other places, and the reduction of those particulates has proven to be difficult and expensive for diesels. Europe is tougher on overall CO2 I think, which gives diesels an edge there.

[Nixon]

Tier 2 Bin 5 currently is the toughest diesel standard in the world. But the "Euro 5" emissions standard goes into effect in 2009 in Europe. So any changes that manufacturers would have to make for their cars to meet this standard by 2009 would have to be made to their 2009 model year cars that go on sale at the end of this summer. Otherwise they would have to do a mid-model year change in production.

Seriously, the Europeans should be able to pass at least some of these Euro 5 compliant cars through Tier 2 Bin 5 testing standards. Euro 5 and Tier 2 Bin 5 just aren't that far apart. And the 2014 Euro 6 standard is even slightly tougher than California's Tier 2 Bin 5.