[thebmw]

With some other manufacturers, engine hours are displayed right in the dashboard computer. But on BMWs, they are not. Does anyone know how to find out the engine hours on a BMW? Does Bimmerlink have this feature? If so, I can't seem to find it.

[thebmw]

Anyone?

[UPSROD]

Maybe on a BMW boat!

[Efthreeoh]

I don't know the answer, or even if there is one. But I'm interested to know what you are going to use the data for.

I would reset the average MPH recorder. Drive a few tanks to get the average MPH you drive, then divide the total miles on the car by the average MPH. That will give you an approximate hours usage metric. It should be close enough.

[thebmw]

I am thinking of selling one of my cars. The actual engine hours are relatively low, but miles are higher because it is a highway car. So judging the car based on miles is really not representative. The wear on the engine is minimal, coupled with my obsessive maintenance and careful driving style. I am trying to find a way to prove that the engine has seen low hours so prospective buyers are interested.

I would also like to know engine hours for my future purchases.

[IanH]

Since you have no way of proving that the engine is in better shape because of how it was driven. The car is worth what the market will bear, which is probably similar to other cars of the same mileage

I bought a 3 year old car with 70k on the clock once, it was not in any better shape than any other 70k miles car because it was highway driven.

[Redd]

I don't think anyone is going to pay you a premium just because your car did more highway miles. If the condition of your car is good it should speak for itself.

[thebmw]

Originally Posted by IanH

Since you have no way of proving that the engine is in better shape because of how it was driven. The car is worth what the market will bear, which is probably similar to other cars of the same mileage

I bought a 3 year old car with 70k on the clock once, it was not in any better shape than any other 70k miles car because it was highway driven.

70k miles of city driving with stop and go traffic, idling, and frequent engine turn on/off is absolutely night and day from an engine that's warmed up and driving hundreds of miles at a steady RPM. It is this exact type of mileage and maintenance that dictate whether an engine is more likely to fail or not, especially the v8s. Supercars have engine hours specifically for this reason. It's important not only from a sales standpoint but also from purchasing standpoint. In fact, that information is far more important than mileage.

[Efthreeoh]

Highway miles means it rev'd faster, so more piston wear...

[thebmw]

Originally Posted by Redd

I don't think anyone is going to pay you a premium just because your car did more highway miles. If the condition of your car is good it should speak for itself.

Of course they will. I will. Why in the world would someone pay more for an engine that has high wear vs an engine that has low wear? But you're right, most people out there are so stupid that they'll just buy a car simply because it is shiny and pay no attention to how the car was actually treated, maintained, and real wear. That's exactly why they don't ask about engine hours... they don't even know.

[thebmw]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

Highway miles means it rev'd faster, so more piston wear...

Do you really think that highway miles cause more wear and tear than laborious city driving when people are accelerating every 10 seconds? That's where the revs come in, not when you're coasting on the highway at 1800 RPM with an engine that's already nice and warm.

[MJBO]

If what you say is true and “most people out there are so stupid” I highly doubt you’ll find someone to buy your BMW because of low engine hours

[tturedraider]

Originally Posted by IanH

Since you have no way of proving that the engine is in better shape because of how it was driven. The car is worth what the market will bear, which is probably similar to other cars of the same mileage

I bought a 3 year old car with 70k on the clock once, it was not in any better shape than any other 70k miles car because it was highway driven.

Originally Posted by Redd

I don't think anyone is going to pay you a premium just because your car did more highway miles. If the condition of your car is good it should speak for itself.

Originally Posted by thebmw

70k miles of city driving with stop and go traffic, idling, and frequent engine turn on/off is absolutely night and day from an engine that's warmed up and driving hundreds of miles at a steady RPM. It is this exact type of mileage and maintenance that dictate whether an engine is more likely to fail or not, especially the v8s. Supercars have engine hours specifically for this reason. It's important not only from a sales standpoint but also from purchasing standpoint. In fact, that information is far more important than mileage.

Originally Posted by thebmw

Of course they will. I will. Why in the world would someone pay more for an engine that has high wear vs an engine that has low wear? But you're right, most people out there are so stupid that they'll just buy a car simply because it is shiny and pay no attention to how the car was actually treated, maintained, and real wear. That's exactly why they don't ask about engine hours... they don't even know.

The first two statements are the reality of the used car market. A handful of potential buyers will appreciate the difference between highway miles and city miles, but even then only a fraction of those folks will pay a premium over what the market value’ers say the car is worth based on straight mileage. The people you are targeting make a minuscule and inconsequential segment of the market.

Your statements about highway miles being easier are 100% correct. And at the same time it doesn’t matter to 99.99998% of your potential buyers and it’s a virtual certainty it won’t matter to whoever buys your car.

I would be really interested in what other manufacturers you are aware of that include engine hours in the information provided by the vehicle computer that is visible to the consumer. Personally, with the possible exception of Porsche and/or maybe Land Rover I don’t think anyone does.

[cozye]

One good way to document highway miles vs. stop and go is by the service records. If you truly have a highway car, your brake wear is minimal. Brakes on my BMW 340i lasted 140k miles before needing to be replaced for example.

I don’t think there is a way to demonstrate hours. I understand what you are getting at. Ultimately though, the wear and tear on the vehicle will convince the buyer of what you are saying. Anyone who’s had a highway car vs a daily city car will know the difference when driving and inspecting the car. It will drive better and feel newer, coupled with your maintenance records and time you’ve had the car, will convince anyone who’s buying it.

other posters are right though, its just a data point and what will really matter is the condition of the vehicle compared to others on the market. Highway cars will typically show better.

[SnowCover]

I would be equally alarmed if the car really had mostly highway miles. For example, my friend drives her M2 at 90mph on her commute whenever possible. She revs that engine like it's a French horn and brakes like she's trying to create a dust storm(brake dust, that is). Wear and tear at 90mph can't be better than someone who drives it gently at 70mph.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by thebmw

Do you really think that highway miles cause more wear and tear than laborious city driving when people are accelerating every 10 seconds? That's where the revs come in, not when you're coasting on the highway at 1800 RPM with an engine that's already nice and warm.

I was mostly joking to make a point, because I think your premise of low engine hours is a false positive metric. Most internal engine wear is caused by the number of cold starts the engine sees and the number of heat cycles it experiences. In theory, every engine has a maximum number of revolutions it will make until it is spent.

Being one who owns and still operates an 18 year old E90 with 425,000 miles on it, which saw a 60/110 split between heavy stop-and-go/open cruising* daily for 15 years, I have some 1st hand experience with this. My car has approximately 9,500 hours of operation on it, mostly with just two cold start heat cycles per 85-mile trip. IMO miles are miles, if you want to make a statement about engine health, get a documented report on cylinder compression readings.

*open cruising means 60 miles of steady state 60 MPH zero traffic and 50 miles of backroad hammering daily.

[IanH]

How many cars even have engine failure in the first place? Certainly not inside 150k. Usually they are in the junker for other reasons before the engine goes. So even IF the hypothesis is true, the benefit is that the highway engine fails at 220k instead of 200k? Who cares?

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by IanH

How many cars even have engine failure in the first place? Certainly not inside 150k. Usually they are in the junker for other reasons before the engine goes. So even IF the hypothesis is true, the benefit is that the highway engine fails at 220k instead of 200k? Who cares?

Exactly.

[thebmw]

Originally Posted by IanH

How many cars even have engine failure in the first place? Certainly not inside 150k. Usually they are in the junker for other reasons before the engine goes. So even IF the hypothesis is true, the benefit is that the highway engine fails at 220k instead of 200k? Who cares?

Tons of them have engine failures, literally, if they are BMW V8 such as N63, S63.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by thebmw

Tons of them have engine failures, literally, if they are BMW V8 such as N63, S63.

With those engines, hours don't really matter, they fail regardless over time.

[thebmw]

Originally Posted by tturedraider

I would be really interested in what other manufacturers you are aware of that include engine hours in the information provided by the vehicle computer that is visible to the consumer. Personally, with the possible exception of Porsche and/or maybe Land Rover I don’t think anyone does.

Many car manufacturers have this data. Virtually all the domestics, including GM, Chrysler, Dodge, Ford and all of their pickup trucks and fleet vehicles have this data available in the dashboard. Many Japanese manufacturers including Hyundai and some European including Volvo also have this data available. Other manufacturers have this data available via OBD2 port. Corvettes have this data, Vipers have this data, and some supercars have this data as well.

Along with engine hour information, idling information is also very useful. 1 hour idling is between 30 to 40 miles of engine wear, according to Ford and Chrysler. It would be great if we had a total engine revolution data, but I've never seen that anywhere.

[thebmw]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

With those engines, hours don't really matter, they fail regardless over time.

Engine hours are a form of time and failure over time is correlated to engine hour and Idle hour data.. The engines don't spontaneously fail if they just sit there in a garage. Those engines fail because of poor maintenance, the wrong engine oil (that's a whole separate thread), and hours of wear on the engine (i.e. the type of miles driven).

I agree with you that RPM data would be really useful but that is not available on any vehicle. Of course there are going to be exceptions, but data on the engine is crucial and just as important as assessing the rest of the vehicle condition.