[Alpina_B3_Lux]

Does anybody recognize the following (catted) downpipes? If not, these are probably custom-built:

Just to explain the context: These are part of the stage 2 tuning option of both Noelle Motors (http://www.noellemotors.de/) and Evotech (in Germany, http://www.evotech.de/), comprising an ECU reflash, catted downpipes and an additional oil cooler. Results are (conservatively) estimated at 401 hp (crank) and 530 Nm torque (crank).

As this stage 2 is sold at a regular price in excess of EUR 7000, I am somewhat curious about these downpipes - normally an oilcooler plus reflash and downpipes should not be that expensive.

Another question: Apparently Noelle and Evotech displace the O2 (lambda) sensors. I assume that the primary sensors are moved behind the secondary cats to avoid CELs. Can someone either confirm this or know of another tuner offering this option? Also, from what I learned here catted DPs normally do not throw any codes (such as the ones from AR design, at least for pre 29.2 cars - can anyone confirm this for later builds as well?) so I wonder if the procedure of moving the O2 sensors is even necessary.

Any thoughts?

Alpina_B3_Lux

[trixman]

I would have thought a reflash would make the need for an 02 sensor irrelevant, as they would edit those settings in the ECU itself.

[Sniz]

did u just say 7,000 euros for downpipes and retune????

[Alpina_B3_Lux]

Originally Posted by Sniz

did u just say 7,000 euros for downpipes and retune????

Well, an oilcooler is added as well - but yes! For Noelle, the quote is 7800 EUR, for Evotech 7150 EUR at the moment. Noelle has decreased it to 4900 EUR but apparently left out the oilcooler in that option (which they think is no longer necessary, what I would dispute).

As this price tag somewhat exceeds what I'm used to seeing in this forum (to understate things...), I'm wondering what kind of downpipes and set-up with the O2 sensors they're using.

Don't the downpipes look somewhat like the OEM DPs? Could it be they only replace the OEM cats with metal race cats? Then the price tag would be even more exaggerated...

Thanks for any input on this,

Alpina_B3_Lux

[Praemienhai]

Originally Posted by Alpina_B3_Lux

Well, an oilcooler is added as well - but yes!
As this price tag somewhat exceeds what I'm used to seeing in this forum (to understate things...), I'm wondering what kind of downpipes and set-up with the O2 sensors they're using.

Don't the downpipes look somewhat like the OEM DPs? Could it be they only replace the OEM cats with metal race cats? Then the price tag would be even more exaggerated...

The DPs shown by your picture above look very similar to the OEM DPs. I assume that Noelle just replaces the OEM-cats with some high-flow-racing-cats and disabled the after-cat O2-sensor in the ECU-Software.

I agree with you that the price is very ambitious...

[jadeddjay]

lol, talk about a ripoff

[ar design]

Those look like OEM downpipes.

[enrita]

yep look completely OEM, probably they just remove the cats inside or put some high flow ones.

[Mr. 5]

Originally Posted by ar design

Those look like OEM downpipes.

I second that except I bet they are gutted.

[ar design]

Originally Posted by Mr. 5

I second that except I bet they are gutted.

[Alpina_B3_Lux]

Originally Posted by enrita

yep look completely OEM, probably they just remove the cats inside or put some high flow ones.

Pursuant to the website at Noelle Motors, they put in metal cats. Considering the price and that they did not even change the downpipes but kept the OEM ones, I expect the cats are made of platinum at least.

Alpina_B3_Lux

[Vyruz Reaper]

Originally Posted by Alpina_B3_Lux

Does anybody recognize the following (catted) downpipes? If not, these are probably custom-built:

Just to explain the context: These are part of the stage 2 tuning option of both Noelle Motors (http://www.noellemotors.de/) and Evotech (in Germany, http://www.evotech.de/), comprising an ECU reflash, catted downpipes and an additional oil cooler. Results are (conservatively) estimated at 401 hp (crank) and 530 Nm torque (crank).

As this stage 2 is sold at a regular price in excess of EUR 7000, I am somewhat curious about these downpipes - normally an oilcooler plus reflash and downpipes should not be that expensive.

Another question: Apparently Noelle and Evotech displace the O2 (lambda) sensors. I assume that the primary sensors are moved behind the secondary cats to avoid CELs. Can someone either confirm this or know of another tuner offering this option? Also, from what I learned here catted DPs normally do not throw any codes (such as the ones from AR design, at least for pre 29.2 cars - can anyone confirm this for later builds as well?) so I wonder if the procedure of moving the O2 sensors is even necessary.

Any thoughts?

Alpina_B3_Lux

those look stock

[enrita]

Originally Posted by Alpina_B3_Lux

Well, an oilcooler is added as well - but yes! For Noelle, the quote is 7800 EUR, for Evotech 7150 EUR at the moment. Noelle has decreased it to 4900 EUR but apparently left out the oilcooler in that option (which they think is no longer necessary, what I would dispute).

As this price tag somewhat exceeds what I'm used to seeing in this forum (to understate things...), I'm wondering what kind of downpipes and set-up with the O2 sensors they're using.

Don't the downpipes look somewhat like the OEM DPs? Could it be they only replace the OEM cats with metal race cats? Then the price tag would be even more exaggerated...

Thanks for any input on this,

Alpina_B3_Lux

If you are looking for a Flash i would do the Stage 3/4 from ESS (4 being especially designed for catless dps with o2 sensor disabled) , grab some AR Catless dps and either AR oil cooler or VK motorwerk oil cooler.
Could be either Noelle or Evotech are offering a separate engine warranty which makes that the price so steep.

[Alpina_B3_Lux]

Originally Posted by enrita

If you are looking for a Flash i would do the Stage 3/4 from ESS (4 being especially designed for catless dps with o2 sensor disabled) , grab some AR Catless dps and either AR oil cooler or VK motorwerk oil cooler.
Could be either Noelle or Evotech are offering a separate engine warranty which makes that the price so steep.

I already plan to go the ESSTuning road anyway, this thread is rather out of curiosity because I would like to have a solid solution for the downpipes that I plan to install (now or later). As I'm a little astonished as to the price of the Noelle / Evotech solution, I wanted to know what kind of downpipes exactly they are installing. Seems more or less clear that they simply replace the cats in the OEM downpipe, although what they do with the O2 sensor is less clear - disabling them with the flash would be the easiest solution, IMO.

And no, neither Noelle nor Evotech include an engine warranty in their price. You have to pay separately for that, and in any case there's a cap of around 2.500 EUR on that warranty. So if your motor blows, that's not enough by far, anyway.

I don't want to go catless btw as I have to pass emission tests in Germany.

Alpina_B3_Lux

P.S. By the way, what do you mean by stage 4 with ESS? They only offer three stages AFAIK, although the third requires an aftermarket intercooler and can be supplemented by an oil cooler and downpipes (without further changes in the software, though).

[Praemienhai]

Originally Posted by Alpina_B3_Lux

I already plan to go the ESSTuning road anyway... I don't want to go catless btw as I have to pass emission tests in Germany.

Do you have any concerns regarding the remarkable max torque output of a Stage 3 setup with FMIC and HFC-DPs? Do you have a MT oder AT?

[enrita]

Originally Posted by Alpina_B3_Lux

I already plan to go the ESSTuning road anyway, this thread is rather out of curiosity because I would like to have a solid solution for the downpipes that I plan to install (now or later). As I'm a little astonished as to the price of the Noelle / Evotech solution, I wanted to know what kind of downpipes exactly they are installing. Seems more or less clear that they simply replace the cats in the OEM downpipe, although what they do with the O2 sensor is less clear - disabling them with the flash would be the easiest solution, IMO.

And no, neither Noelle nor Evotech include an engine warranty in their price. You have to pay separately for that, and in any case there's a cap of around 2.500 EUR on that warranty. So if your motor blows, that's not enough by far, anyway.

I don't want to go catless btw as I have to pass emission tests in Germany.

Alpina_B3_Lux

P.S. By the way, what do you mean by stage 4 with ESS? They only offer three stages AFAIK, although the third requires an aftermarket intercooler and can be supplemented by an oil cooler and downpipes (without further changes in the software, though).

They have a stage 4 in the works , will be out in a week or so. Especially done for people with Catless downpipes.

[Alpina_B3_Lux]

Originally Posted by Praemienhai

Do you have any concerns regarding the remarkable max torque output of a Stage 3 setup with FMIC and HFC-DPs? Do you have a MT oder AT?

I have manual transmission. And yes I have thought about the amount of torque delivered by the relevant tune, but as I do not plan to track the car I think I can take the risk. IMO the drivetrain itself is solid enough, if something gives it will be the clutch and that is not too expensive to replace.

Alpina_B3_Lux

[marconi118]

Someone has more details on ESS stage 4?

Will it be compatible with methanol injection?