Good read on CAN data collection, methods and possibilities

IlChengis · 05-25-2010, 01:41 PM

Quick read

Original study (PDF) by AutoSec

I am still reading the PDF... but man, I wish I had more time to tinker with this!

Enjoy,

-Walter

AltecBX · 05-25-2010, 01:53 PM

I think there are multiple CAN's in the car. I believe Vishnu access a certain area and sniffs those packets.
I would like a complete tune in the future to completely operate everything from, A/C, lights, dash, traction, etc..

jpsimon · 05-25-2010, 03:09 PM

Why would you like a tune to control the A/C system and lights?

dmurray14 · 05-25-2010, 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AltecBX

I think there are multiple CAN's in the car. I believe Vishnu access a certain area and sniffs those packets.
I would like a complete tune in the future to completely operate everything from, A/C, lights, dash, traction, etc..

WTF?

And yes there are multiple BUSes, most of which are CAN-based.

But still, WTF to that last sentence. I'm hoping you forgot a

AltecBX · 05-25-2010, 03:16 PM

A know a guy that controls each head light on his VW. He can have one go up 15 degrees and the other one down 25 degree, independently. It has nothing to do with making the car faster but he can customize his entire car.

AltecBX · 05-25-2010, 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpsimon

Why would you like a tune to control the A/C system and lights?

Different settings for different driving styles.

dmurray14 · 05-25-2010, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AltecBX

A know a guy that controls each head light on his VW. He can have one go up 15 degrees and the other one down 25 degree, independently. It has nothing to do with making the car faster but he can customize his entire car.

His tune does this?

Are you smoking crack? Like, a lot of it?

jpsimon · 05-25-2010, 03:18 PM

different A/C settings based on driving style??????

dmurray14 · 05-25-2010, 03:19 PM

This is seriously gold. Thanks for the laugh

AltecBX · 05-25-2010, 03:23 PM

Is not his engine tune, but he has a computer system that controls a lot of the settings in the car. What I'm referring to is to have a tune incorporate a lot of these features in one.

dmurray14 · 05-25-2010, 03:24 PM

And to try and salvage some of this trainwreck, the article is a lot of FUD....yes a lot of this can be hacked if someone really wanted to tap your CANbus, find out what commands were required to even talk to the right module, then wire up a laptop and 3g connection to do this all remotely. It would be a hell of a lot easier to just cut your brake lines, and probably more effective too.

AltecBX · 05-25-2010, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpsimon

different A/C settings based on driving style??????

I must not be thinking right right now. I'm up on 1 hr sleep.

jpsimon · 05-25-2010, 03:25 PM

put down the keyboard and step away

AltecBX · 05-25-2010, 03:26 PM

I also don't think you can manually cut the breaks electronically if someone would physically press the brake pedal. Doesn't the brake pedal overrides the electronics?

dmurray14 · 05-25-2010, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AltecBX

I also don't think you can manually cut the breaks electronically if someone would physically press the brake pedal. Doesn't the brake pedal overrides the electronics?

I don't know what this says.

AltecBX · 05-25-2010, 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dmurray14

I don't know what this says.

If you tapped into my CAN and controlled the brakes remotely to not have my brakes work, I can stop the car physically with the brake pedal.

dmurray14 · 05-25-2010, 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AltecBX

If you tapped into my CAN and controlled the brakes remotely to not have my brakes work, I can stop the car physically with the brake pedal.

Yes, but AFAIK (check your table), there is no CAN command to cut the driver's ability to use the brakes. Worst case, you may be able to artificially actuate the DSC module to modulate the individual corners, but even then, most of these commands have conditions that have to be met to run (like, for instance, the vehicle can't be in motion).

In other words, anything is possible, but it's not worth the time.

vasillalov · 05-25-2010, 03:35 PM

Welcome to like 5 years ago!

dtp3347 · 05-25-2010, 03:35 PM

this is an awesome thread

dmurray14 · 05-25-2010, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dtp3347

this is an awesome thread

I agree. I'm actually somewhat disappointed in myself for giving a serious answer to the above question...

AltecBX · 05-25-2010, 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dmurray14

Yes, but AFAIK (check your table)

Ok, I'm going to sleep. My brain is on overload.

That's what I thought too on the brakes which was mentioned in the article.

IlChengis · 05-25-2010, 03:50 PM

The 'hackers can disable your brakes" part of the article is irrelevant BS, typical journalistic title. What I found interesting was reading about CarShark and skimming through the PDF... which I am still trying to read between one thing and another here @ work.

-Walter

05-25-2010, 01:41 PM	#1
IlChengis once Treppiede 63 Rep 915 Posts Drives: 2012 E92 M3 Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Miami and Atlanta iTrader: (4)	Good read on CAN data collection, methods and possibilities Quick read Original study (PDF) by AutoSec I am still reading the PDF... but man, I wish I had more time to tinker with this! Enjoy, -Walter __________________ 2013 E92 M3 \| 6MT \| AlpWhite \| SilverNovillo \| CarbonTrim \| ZCP \| PremiumPkg \| Alarm 2009 E92 335i \| 6MT \| AlpWhite \| CoralRed \| AlumTrim \| M-Sport \| Nav \| Logic7 \| Alarm (sold to a friend - still in the family)
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05-25-2010, 01:53 PM	#2
AltecBX Colonel 325 Rep 2,663 Posts Drives: BMW 335xi Sedan; BMW M3 ZCP Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: NYC iTrader: (0) Garage List 2018 BMW M3 ZCP [0.00] 2007 BMW 335Xi [0.00]	I think there are multiple CAN's in the car. I believe Vishnu access a certain area and sniffs those packets. I would like a complete tune in the future to completely operate everything from, A/C, lights, dash, traction, etc.. __________________ 335xi Sedan 6AT \| Weather(70-85°F) \| N54 Tune Comparison Chart \|\| N54 Turbo Upgrade Comparison Chart -PROcede Rev. 2.5 ~ v5 (3/17 maps) / JB4 (8/21 maps) / COBB (Stg2+FMIC LT Aggressive maps) †Procede Map2(UT 45 - IGN 40) Aggression Target 2.0 \| 0-60 in 4.0sec \|\| †Cobb E30 LT (35% Ethanol/65% 93 Octane) \| 0-60 in 3.9sec AR Design Catless DP \| BMS DCI + OCC \| ETS 5 FMIC \| Alpina B3 Trans Flash \|235/265 19" Michelin PSS
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05-25-2010, 03:09 PM	#3
jpsimon Team Zissou 3084 Rep 10,198 Posts Drives: 2022 AWD M3 Comp - SMB Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: CT iTrader: (7)	Why would you like a tune to control the A/C system and lights?
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05-25-2010, 03:16 PM	#5
AltecBX Colonel 325 Rep 2,663 Posts Drives: BMW 335xi Sedan; BMW M3 ZCP Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: NYC iTrader: (0) Garage List 2018 BMW M3 ZCP [0.00] 2007 BMW 335Xi [0.00]	A know a guy that controls each head light on his VW. He can have one go up 15 degrees and the other one down 25 degree, independently. It has nothing to do with making the car faster but he can customize his entire car. __________________ 335xi Sedan 6AT \| Weather(70-85°F) \| N54 Tune Comparison Chart \|\| N54 Turbo Upgrade Comparison Chart -PROcede Rev. 2.5 ~ v5 (3/17 maps) / JB4 (8/21 maps) / COBB (Stg2+FMIC LT Aggressive maps) †Procede Map2(UT 45 - IGN 40) Aggression Target 2.0 \| 0-60 in 4.0sec \|\| †Cobb E30 LT (35% Ethanol/65% 93 Octane) \| 0-60 in 3.9sec AR Design Catless DP \| BMS DCI + OCC \| ETS 5 FMIC \| Alpina B3 Trans Flash \|235/265 19" Michelin PSS
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05-25-2010, 03:18 PM	#8
jpsimon Team Zissou 3084 Rep 10,198 Posts Drives: 2022 AWD M3 Comp - SMB Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: CT iTrader: (7)	different A/C settings based on driving style??????
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05-25-2010, 03:19 PM	#9
dmurray14 The Stig 31 Rep 1,232 Posts Drives: Quickly Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: US iTrader: (1)	This is seriously gold. Thanks for the laugh __________________
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05-25-2010, 03:23 PM	#10
AltecBX Colonel 325 Rep 2,663 Posts Drives: BMW 335xi Sedan; BMW M3 ZCP Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: NYC iTrader: (0) Garage List 2018 BMW M3 ZCP [0.00] 2007 BMW 335Xi [0.00]	Is not his engine tune, but he has a computer system that controls a lot of the settings in the car. What I'm referring to is to have a tune incorporate a lot of these features in one. __________________ 335xi Sedan 6AT \| Weather(70-85°F) \| N54 Tune Comparison Chart \|\| N54 Turbo Upgrade Comparison Chart -PROcede Rev. 2.5 ~ v5 (3/17 maps) / JB4 (8/21 maps) / COBB (Stg2+FMIC LT Aggressive maps) †Procede Map2(UT 45 - IGN 40) Aggression Target 2.0 \| 0-60 in 4.0sec \|\| †Cobb E30 LT (35% Ethanol/65% 93 Octane) \| 0-60 in 3.9sec AR Design Catless DP \| BMS DCI + OCC \| ETS 5 FMIC \| Alpina B3 Trans Flash \|235/265 19" Michelin PSS
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05-25-2010, 03:24 PM	#11
dmurray14 The Stig 31 Rep 1,232 Posts Drives: Quickly Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: US iTrader: (1)	And to try and salvage some of this trainwreck, the article is a lot of FUD....yes a lot of this can be hacked if someone really wanted to tap your CANbus, find out what commands were required to even talk to the right module, then wire up a laptop and 3g connection to do this all remotely. It would be a hell of a lot easier to just cut your brake lines, and probably more effective too. __________________
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05-25-2010, 03:25 PM	#13
jpsimon Team Zissou 3084 Rep 10,198 Posts Drives: 2022 AWD M3 Comp - SMB Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: CT iTrader: (7)	put down the keyboard and step away
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05-25-2010, 03:26 PM	#14
AltecBX Colonel 325 Rep 2,663 Posts Drives: BMW 335xi Sedan; BMW M3 ZCP Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: NYC iTrader: (0) Garage List 2018 BMW M3 ZCP [0.00] 2007 BMW 335Xi [0.00]	I also don't think you can manually cut the breaks electronically if someone would physically press the brake pedal. Doesn't the brake pedal overrides the electronics? __________________ 335xi Sedan 6AT \| Weather(70-85°F) \| N54 Tune Comparison Chart \|\| N54 Turbo Upgrade Comparison Chart -PROcede Rev. 2.5 ~ v5 (3/17 maps) / JB4 (8/21 maps) / COBB (Stg2+FMIC LT Aggressive maps) †Procede Map2(UT 45 - IGN 40) Aggression Target 2.0 \| 0-60 in 4.0sec \|\| †Cobb E30 LT (35% Ethanol/65% 93 Octane) \| 0-60 in 3.9sec AR Design Catless DP \| BMS DCI + OCC \| ETS 5 FMIC \| Alpina B3 Trans Flash \|235/265 19" Michelin PSS
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05-25-2010, 03:35 PM	#18
vasillalov Mad Linux Guru On The Loose 1131 Rep 5,404 Posts Drives: 2008 335i Sedan, 2023 M3 Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Chicago, IL iTrader: (5) Garage List 2023 BMW M3 [0.00] 2008 335i E90 [8.00]	Welcome to like 5 years ago!
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05-25-2010, 03:35 PM	#19
dtp3347 Lieutenant 53 Rep 488 Posts Drives: Silver E92 335i Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Alpharetta, Ga iTrader: (2)	this is an awesome thread
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05-25-2010, 03:50 PM	#22
IlChengis once Treppiede 63 Rep 915 Posts Drives: 2012 E92 M3 Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Miami and Atlanta iTrader: (4)	The 'hackers can disable your brakes" part of the article is irrelevant BS, typical journalistic title. What I found interesting was reading about CarShark and skimming through the PDF... which I am still trying to read between one thing and another here @ work. -Walter __________________ 2013 E92 M3 \| 6MT \| AlpWhite \| SilverNovillo \| CarbonTrim \| ZCP \| PremiumPkg \| Alarm 2009 E92 335i \| 6MT \| AlpWhite \| CoralRed \| AlumTrim \| M-Sport \| Nav \| Logic7 \| Alarm (sold to a friend - still in the family)
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