[IanM3]

We have a developer that wants to build houses on the open land behind our house. They got planning permission back in 1980 but have not built the houses due to commitments elsewhere (apparently!).

The issue I have is, due to them building the access road to the development in 1980, the council have allowed them to just pick up the planning permission granted thirty years ago and start the development. The council say that because a 'material start' was made to the development they cannot stop the builders. Surely this is a load of old sh*te? Does anyone know the law on this as the council are useless!!

Many thanks
Ian

[rogerxp]

The council are useless because they don't want to jeapardise their dirty big back-hander!!!

Helen is the best one to answer this I think; sure she'll be along soon...

[Boyd1963]

Originally Posted by rogerxp

The council are useless because they don't want to jeapardise their dirty big back-hander!!!

Helen is the best one to answer this I think; sure she'll be along soon...

+1

[dxb335d]

Fuck me, were you aware of this when you purchased your property?!

Bet your not happy.

[dxb335d]

How do I go about finding out whether a plot of land has planning permission on it!?

[creepy coupe]

I though the permission only lasted about three years until it needed resubmitting?

[IanM3]

Can't say I am happy no!

You'd have to speak to your local council but they are pretty cr4p usually!

[Skid]

Originally Posted by IanM3

We have a developer that wants to build houses on the open land behind our house. They got planning permission back in 1980 but have not built the houses due to commitments elsewhere (apparently!).

The issue I have is, due to them building the access road to the development in 1980, the council have allowed them to just pick up the planning permission granted thirty years ago and start the development. The council say that because a 'material start' was made to the development they cannot stop the builders. Surely this is a load of old sh*te? Does anyone know the law on this as the council are useless!!

Many thanks
Ian

Usually planning permission lasts for 5 years but has to be started in 3 years.
Once this has started you can take as long as you like to complete the project.

As the building company has done the access road the council are deeming that they have implemented the planning permission therefore they may carry on with the development.

This was info from my brother in-law who is an architect based in the midlands.

I would get hold of the plans and make sure that they are not deviating from them. The council may have stipulated that trees etc need to be planted in certain places and if not done so you could make life a bit of a pain for them.

It's a bummer, I feel for you.

[sheps]

Originally Posted by creepy coupe

I though the permission only lasted about three years until it needed resubmitting?

It lapses if you do nothing.
If you make a start, then it doesn't matter if it takes you a millenia to finish it.
The question here is "what constitutes a start"

In IanM3's case, the builder has set down an access road, on which they are basing the start of their development - i.e. the planning permission has not timed out because they have made a reasonable start and can now finish at their leisure (although 30 years is somewhat pretty f*cking leisurely).

I have a number of housebuilding frineds that, when they have a large number fo sites, usually get in the footings and oversite of each unit, as that clearly consitutes a good start.

I think putting in a roadway (especially if it can be deemed temporary or unfinished) could be argued as an insufficient start for contiuation of planning permission to apply in this case. But then again, I am not a planning professional, and I am also an argumentative so and so.

Best wait for Helen, our resident planning expert, to comment.

[IanM3]

Cheers chaps, all helpful comments. The builders won't share the plans with us until the council say they can and the council won't let us see the plans until next week, oh the joy!

[sheps]

If they're planning on using a continuation of an existing planning permission then the plans must already be available and in the public domain, surely?

[Em135eye]

"Aquire" a live natterjack toad and "find it" on the land. Or a pippistrel.

That'll scupper it.

[Boyd1963]

Did your solicitor not pick this up when you bought the house?

I would have thought that the "Local Authority Searches" would have found something.

Let's see what Helen says.

[rogerxp]

Where the hell is Helen when you need her ??? Don't tell me she's doing some work or something??? Probably on a test-drive

[IanM3]

I don't remember anything on the searches, but we did buy the house more than ten years ago and my memory isn't as good as it once was!!!

The council are adamant that no one can view the plans until next week, I've spoken to the head of planning and he isn't budging......tw4ts.

[CHG]

Originally Posted by Skid

Usually planning permission lasts for 5 years but has to be started in 3 years.
Once this has started you can take as long as you like to complete the project.

As the building company has done the access road the council are deeming that they have implemented the planning permission therefore they may carry on with the development.

+1....Because they started, they have as long as they want to finish....

[chrisbin]

Originally Posted by IanM3

I don't remember anything on the searches, but we did buy the house more than ten years ago and my memory isn't as good as it once was!!!

The council are adamant that no one can view the plans until next week, I've spoken to the head of planning and he isn't budging......tw4ts.

Have you asked to see the original plans that were approved??

Good luck - planning departments are a law unto themselves.....

[toxicnerve]

Originally Posted by rogerxp

Where the hell is Helen when you need her ??? Don't tell me she's doing some work or something??? Probably on a test-drive

Maybe she's actually working for once!! Makes a change, bloody civil servants

[IanM3]

Originally Posted by chrisbin

Have you asked to see the original plans that were approved??

Good luck - planning departments are a law unto themselves.....

Apparently I can see these (pencil drawn on papirus!) if I go down to the council offices, which are open 9am to 5pm, conveniently when I'm at work!

[NFS]

Originally Posted by IanM3

We have a developer that wants to build houses on the open land behind our house. They got planning permission back in 1980 but have not built the houses due to commitments elsewhere (apparently!).

The issue I have is, due to them building the access road to the development in 1980, the council have allowed them to just pick up the planning permission granted thirty years ago and start the development. The council say that because a 'material start' was made to the development they cannot stop the builders. Surely this is a load of old sh*te? Does anyone know the law on this as the council are useless!!

Many thanks
Ian

Originally Posted by IanM3

Cheers chaps, all helpful comments. The builders won't share the plans with us until the council say they can and the council won't let us see the plans until next week, oh the joy!

Originally Posted by IanM3

Apparently I can see these (pencil drawn on papirus!) if I go down to the council offices, which are open 9am to 5pm, conveniently when I'm at work!

Most planning permissions are valid for 3 or 5 years. However, once a permission has been implemented it no longer has a time constraint.

The developer is arguing that he has implemented the 30 year old consent and I would suspect that there is little you can do about this. There is a real argument that you should have been well aware of the existance of this consent when you bought the house.

What doesn't quite make sense is the business of the plans. There is no way that the developer is actually going to build out a 30 year old consent. Housebuilding has moved on a touch and 30 year old plans won't suit the market or comply with building regulations.

There are obviously new plans and you need to understand the basis on which they have been submitted. Is this a new application or a minor amendment? A full planning application or 'reserved matters'? It's likely that you will be consulted on these plans at some point and dependant on the nature of the changes there may still be opportunity for influence.

Where you will struggle is the fact that this site has a valid permission for residential development. Unless the council has re-designated this land in it's regional development plan it's unlikely that there is any valid way to stop a residential development happening there at some stage.

The other thing that will have changed in 30 years is the ecology of the site and environmental law. If there is an new consent this will need to account for the environmental impact of the development. This can be dealt with, but it will slow them down.

[beemerbird]

Nice one Simon.

I know very little about planning applications/consents as that is wholly down to the local authority of the area and not the remit of Land Registry. The two are often and easily confused.

LR is a central Government registration body and can only enforce the LR Act and Rules but are not empowered to make a decision in favour of one party due to impartiality protocols.

Ian - If the development goes ahead, and I would echo the comments made in the whole of Simon's post, then the only assurances I could give are that if the developers solicitors draw up any form of Transfers/Deeds containing and attempting to creat specific legal easements/restrictions/restrictive covenants on the individual house plots or in connection with the access roads, utilitites and or use of any land remaining within the original title (ie. the land as it is now), that cannot be legally registered, then this is where LR comes in.

Our enforcement is to ensure that any of the above can be legally granted and registered taking into account the neighbouring land and properties ie. 'looking out for everyone' so to speak. We also ensure the registered extent as shown on the title plan does not over-lap into any adjoining owners title. Any developer has to register the land and the houses built upon the land and if it 'aint registered then that opens up a big can of worms - in other words they would have to comly with our registration requirements or it 'aint going to be registered - end of. Many developers submit estate plans for approval to iron out any boundary discrepancies prior to development. We will often make a site visit and survey the area or request the Ordnance Survey to go and carry out a survey and update their database which is done for us in effect.

I've simplied it but those are the basic assurances.

I agree with the others though, not sure there is much you can do after this length of time, but you need to see the latest planning proposals.

I am interested to know if the local authority search carried out by your solicitor at the time you were purchasing the property did reveal the planning permission - surely must have done.

And as for the others - I have worked my arse off today so
Wish I had been out on test drives.

[chrisbin]

Originally Posted by NFS

Most planning permissions are valid for 3 or 5 years. However, once a permission has been implemented it no longer has a time constraint.

The developer is arguing that he has implemented the 30 year old consent and I would suspect that there is little you can do about this. There is a real argument that you should have been well aware of the existance of this consent when you bought the house.

What doesn't quite make sense is the business of the plans. There is no way that the developer is actually going to build out a 30 year old consent. Housebuilding has moved on a touch and 30 year old plans won't suit the market or comply with building regulations.

There are obviously new plans and you need to understand the basis on which they have been submitted. Is this a new application or a minor amendment? A full planning application or 'reserved matters'? It's likely that you will be consulted on these plans at some point and dependant on the nature of the changes there may still be opportunity for influence.

Where you will struggle is the fact that this site has a valid permission for residential development. Unless the council has re-designated this land in it's regional development plan it's unlikely that there is any valid way to stop a residential development happening there at some stage.

The other thing that will have changed in 30 years is the ecology of the site and environmental law. If there is an new consent this will need to account for the environmental impact of the development. This can be dealt with, but it will slow them down.

Yep....lots of good stuff there...especially the environmental stuff - look particularly at drainage issues as they have become a hot potato.

If you are serious then I would try and get a copy of the original plans for comparison's sake....

As said before, good luck though as you will need it.