[scm6079]

I just took delivery on my new 335is. Crimson red/black with DCT and most of the other options available. I had traded my 2007 335i coupe in on a new 2010 Audi S4 about a year ago. Unfortunately, although the Audi drives awesome and has some GREAT electronics and an AWESOME radio -- the seats were KILLING me. I tried everything to get them changed/replaced with no luck. :'( In the end I decided I couldn't live with the car and even with the 1-year depreciation would trade it in and go back to BMW.

Originally the M3 was the obvious choice for me. However, after driving both and playing with the numbers the 335is really came out ahead. The dealer was willing to discount both the M3 and the 335is around the same. I made the choice to go with a DCT this go around (all my cars for the last 20 years have been manual) - which is a REALLY nice option on the is.

Considering how much I researched and struggled with the choice myself, I thought I'd post my experiences.

2010 Audi S4 Prestige Advantages
- The best radio of the bunch
- The best nav of the bunch
- AWD
- Awesome torque
- Great 6MT transmission (better than my old 335)

2010 Audi S4 Disadvantages
- Unbearable seats on long drives. For me this was THE reason to get rid of the car. 10 minutes was fine - but after a long commute (45 min. each way for me) I felt like chopping my legs off. Changing the seats for A4 seats was a $12,000 ordeal at a dealer.
- Never remembers settings for drive-select, you must reset every time you get in
- No radio preset buttons (annoying!)


In the end - the seats meant the Audi was out for me. The DCT transmission really was THAT much better in my drive of the 335is to knock out the 335i from consideration. So leaving the 335is vs the M3, the comparison came down to price and my major dislike of the gas guzzler aspects of the M3. I used to own a V8 S4 -- which sucked down the gas. The constant multiple times a week stops to fill up were a royal PITA, and I always felt bad about it. The 335is felt so close to the M3 in all my drives that I just didn't see the advantage in paying any more for the guzzler M3. The exhaust in the 335is is AWESOME sounding, and the car really pulls great. BMW North Scottsdale was great, and gave me a good discount from MSRP which helped make the decision for me.

If BMW really does go with a FI engine in the next M3, and avoid the gas guzzler rating (or at least improve on the highway MPG) I'll probably jump in a few years to that one - but for the time being, the 335is really did seem like the better car for me.
The only real advantage I found in the M3 was just the fact it was an M3.

The new 335is:


-Scott

[WWONG]

Traded in an S4 because of seats? SPOILEDDDDD

[John 070]

I can only imagine how much $$$ is consumed in these types of whimsical decisons. Reminds me how back in 2005 I observed several people in the office refinancing their homes more than twice in a year because they had slick mortgage brokers (can you imagine that was even a job title at one point?). Five years later the 30 year no point rate is below 4.5. What irony. As Matt Damon said in "Rounders," caveat emptor.

[cstavaru]

OP, are you sure you didn't use the seats as an excuse to go back to BMW ?

On another note, to keep mentioning the radio and "electronics" as a differentiator between the S4 and BMW is just not...normal...I think you are in fact more of a Lexus customer

I mean, I would expect this thread to contain driving impressions, performance comparisons...not radio button talk...

[J02 335i]

I was in a situation like this a few years ago when I bought a 350z(03), the car felt right at the time and then after six months I could not deal with it (mind you it started to have issues aswell) So I jumped ship and bought my first BMW, a 330xi. Loved it, couldn't even compare to my 350z, sure it costed a couple grand to make this, but in the big picture I was more then happy with the out come. From there on out I have now owned threes BMW's and will have a very hard time buying anthing else(other then a Porsche LOL).

[Outlaw 06]

Originally Posted by John 070

I can only imagine how much $$$ is consumed in these types of whimsical decisons...

Originally Posted by cstavaru

I think you are in fact more of a Lexus customer

I mean, I would expect this thread to contain driving impressions, performance comparisons...not radio button talk...

+1 on both of these observations.

"GREAT electronics and an AWESOME radio... radio preset buttons... best nav of the bunch..." These are the LAST things a BMW enthusiast cares about.

[datbimmerdoe]

sick upgrade, congrats!

[S_1_N_3_R]

congrats

[smaxon1]

Nice car! Looks just like mine. Crimson Red / black is a stunning combo.

[Trauma Junkie]

Congrats....

[gizmo335i]

Interesting thread....true....wanna hear more performance comparisons...

Must be nice to be able to lose out that much $$$ and it not bother you...why would they give you a discount? I always hear people say this but no dealer EVER offered me that...and I tried believe me...the 20 or so times I've dealt with them...

I would just once like to hear someone say...."Yep, I paid exactly what the car cost." Everyone always says they got a great deal on a car...but everyone always brags about how much they paid for a house...never could figure that one out..

[bsamoul]

That's a sweet picture

[Brey335i]

I test drove an S4. I loved those seats... you must have a really finicky back haha

Can you post up your impressions of the S4 vs. 335is in terms of performance?

[Repsol]

No comparison regarding the handling/braking feel between the M3/335is?

[Coolieman1220]

i love the recaro seats in the audi S cars. they look so sexy. BMW's seats are nice though but i might prefer the audi seats.

also, i think a 335is may end up being rarer than an M3 in the long run...

[Professor///M]

Welcome back.


I'm surprised it wasn't the steering/handling that got you back over to BMW.

I would totally agree with the seats though. You can't enjoy your car if you're not comfortable. I will now always get the sport package for the sport seats!

[ssaylor]

Welcome back, Scott. I traded my 2009 R8 for a 335is. Unlike the S4, R8 seats are REALLY comfortable (but no memory, all manual) and the car is truly amazing. My problem was the hole in my pocketbook! Anyway, 7 weeks later, I'm back in the BMW fold (with cash in the bank too)!

I used Scottsdale BMW as well because I went through Costco. I was originally looking at a 135i but was surprised when I learned the 335is was included in the program - at $500 over invoice like a "regular" 3 series.

I just replaced the amber marker lights, de-badged & need to install my radar detector. I'll add a post with more pics & my experiences over the first 500 miles. All favorable!

Hope to see you at a CCA event some time..

Scott

[Trojan4evr]

love the DCT man. I'm having hella fun with my '11 135i. and I also wouldn't trade BMW tightness I experienced in my 335 and 135. especially 135.

[scm6079]

Originally Posted by cstavaru

On another note, to keep mentioning the radio and "electronics" as a differentiator between the S4 and BMW is just not...normal...I think you are in fact more of a Lexus customer

I mean, I would expect this thread to contain driving impressions, performance comparisons...not radio button talk...

Sorry- I'm a software engineer, and work on all sorts of user interface screens - and have been working hard over the last several months on the charger interface used for the Nissan Leaf. That makes me hyper aware of UI problems I see / experience in other cars!! The Audi also really stood out in my mind more because of it's great tech-toys than the performance aspects. I'll go into more details in my performance views below.

Originally Posted by gizmo335i

Interesting thread....true....wanna hear more performance comparisons...

Must be nice to be able to lose out that much $$$ and it not bother you...why would they give you a discount? I always hear people say this but no dealer EVER offered me that...and I tried believe me...the 20 or so times I've dealt with them...

The easy one first, the discount, shop around. BMW N. Scottsdale was the 3rd BMW dealer I went to (Camelback and Chandler first). Camelback was nice, but had a fixed small discount. Same with Chandler. I used the negotiations with them to learn what I could get in my trade - went home and worked out a deal that I thought was fair to them (if they don't make any money, they won't do it) and good for me. I skipped the "BS" - and came with a pre-filled in BMW Financial report, down to the penny review of what I wanted with a fully spec'd car. They knew it would be a quick easy sale if they met my number. They did, and I was very happy. If you came in with a reasonable number and they won't discount, just leave. There are plenty of other dealers.

Originally Posted by sf_loft

You must have a special back condition or just body proportion. I owned 2 e92 335's and now an S4 and the seats in the S4, although less adjustable, was a lot more comfortable. I used to fidget a lot in the e92 seats and never found the right position.

I've NEVER had a problem with sports seats in cars -- but the ones in the Audi hurt so bad I would literally be kept up at night in pain after driving a long distance. There is obviously something very incompatible between my back and the seats in the Audi. I think it was a very personal thing with my back, and won't affect many people - esp. those who don't have back issues.


And now the big one -- the performance comparisons. Let me start by saying that I used to race every weekend, and have always enjoyed high performance cars. Now the phrase "used to" is in there, because I haven't found myself at a track day in several years. I still love to push the cars to their reasonable limits when possible - and love on occasion pushing the car "stupid sideways". I'm not buying a car for the track here, but rather something I can have LOTS of fun with on the street and not be embarrassed to put a client in, or drive to a social event. For a track day toy, I'd buy a Lotus as an extra car.

When I bought the Audi I had been driving an '07 335i coupe since 2006. The difference moving to the Audi from the 335 was clear. The Audi had LOTS more torque. It felt much faster getting off the line. It also pulled hard to redline. The 335 seems to have less power in the bottom and the top compared to the Audi - although the mid-range may go to the bmw.

The Audi's 6MT also had a much nicer feel. The shifting was perfect, and the lever action very solid. I never really liked the MT in the 335 compared to the Porsche and other car's I've owned.

Handling is where the discussion changes. The Audi's "drive select" is a MUST have if you are looking at the S4. I test drove one without - and was VERY happy to buy with. That feature let's you control the differential, and route enough power to the rear wheels to be fun. In the end, the Audi was by far the best handling Audi I've ever owned (I've also owned a TT and the previous generation v8 S4).

Even with the great handling relative to the other Audis - the S4 just isn't as involving or as dynamic as the 335. The 335 is really fun to get "stupid sideways". On my old 335 I loved it when there was an abandoned rain soaked road. It was great fun to kick the rear end out, lay down the accelerator and just let it open up. The exhaust would kick out a melodic tune and all my problems would briefly go away. The S4 just doesn't drive like that. It's more business like - more... boring. Yes, it's fast. Yes, it handles well. No - it's not involving. It lacks the visceral feel of the BMW. The further away from the "limit" you are, the closer the feel of the two cars. The S4's more favorable torque/hp numbers and still excellent handling make that car more fun further away from the limit. As you drive more aggressively, the 335's feedback of the road and neutral handling make it a lot more fun to drive.

Test driving the new 335is right after driving to the dealer in the Audi - and having driven it for 12,000 miles over the last year I was immediately reminded that the 335 was more fun. And the 'is' model dialed the meter to 11. The exhaust on the 335is is AWESOME. Truly great sounding. The suspension is noticeably stiffer than the Audi - and the feeling much more of a sports car.

The one thing I also immediately noticed in the 335is was some turbo lag. Coming from the S4 it was very pronounced. Back 15 years ago I competed in the NIRA drag race regional finals with a car that had some REAL turbo lag. This was nothing compared to that (i.e. the old MR2, Supra days). But the 335is feels like more of a turbo car than the regular 335. I think some of this is the extra "boost" that really ramps up. It was a really fun feeling - and the extra boost is noticeable. Reminded me a little of the first Nitrous system I had (a 35hp dry-shot) keyed to full-throttle on the pedal. Overall the difference w/o the over-boost between the 335 and 335is is negligible at best.

So why not the M3? Really, it just wasn't all there. I've heard so many people say on the forums that they'd rather just spend the extra $10k and get an M3. Or that they'd get a stripper M3 vs a loaded 335is. First, I think you're crazy. This isn't a race car - you'd really want to drive a hour and a half a day without a radio upgrade, drive to client locations without navigation, and change transmissions because you are in a different model designation car? No way. Comparing apples to apples - the cars are $10k apart. My 335is was loaded, and came to a $61.5k sticker. The dealer dropped around $5k off. The M3 configured the same way came to $74.5k. Even if I was willing to drop $3k in options, it is still $10k more. The discounts are the same on both, with perhaps an extra $300-$500 off on the M3.

Knowing how much more the M3 was, I was still originally going to buy the M3. Mostly because it was an M3, and I keep telling myself my "next" daily driver will be an M3. But driving the 335is and the M3 back to back, it just isn't a better car for my needs. Yes - it is faster at the limit. But those limits were sky high. The 335is exhaust note was incredible. The handling was great. If they would have put a LSD on the 335is I can't see a reason to get an M3 other than for track duty. The personal stigma that goes with any car that qualifies for the gas-guzzler tax was also a very real decision making point. Remember when I said I've been working on the user-interface for the electric car charger for the Leaf? Gas-guzzler cars don't fair well at the office.

So there you have it... one less Audi, and back to BWM.


The new BMW:


The Audi from a year ago:

[TheAcAvenger]

I actually almost agree on the S seats. Im comparing to an S5, but im assuming they're the same. While I never find them grossly uncomfortable (especially after only 10 minutes), I do prefer the 335i's seats to the S5s on long drives (>2.5 hours). The bolsters on the sides of the seat bottom are hard and too raised. If you're a tall person who has to go bowlegged to get a comfortable angle on the pedals, it's a pain.

[ssaylor]

Few more pics of my "is".

http://thesaylors.net/automobiles/BMW335is/335is.mov

[Brey335i]

Originally Posted by ssaylor

Welcome back, Scott. I traded my 2009 R8 for a 335is. Unlike the S4, R8 seats are REALLY comfortable (but no memory, all manual) and the car is truly amazing. My problem was the hole in my pocketbook! Anyway, 7 weeks later, I'm back in the BMW fold (with cash in the bank too)!

Man card.... hand it over. I would never look back at a 335 after buying an R8. Couldn't you just have sold some of your kids/wife/gf or something to keep that car?

Originally Posted by ssaylor

Few more pics of my "is".

http://thesaylors.net/automobiles/BMW335is/335is.mov

I like how you're helping him sprinkle his thread with 335is pictures