[Juggs]

I'm thinking a

clinton/obama democrat ticket

mccain / giuliani republican ticket


It would be a hell of a race, but i think Bush has seriously screwed the republican chances for an 08 victory. Mccain and giuliani would have to basically shit all over Bush's recent decisions ( iraq, handling domestic issues,etc) and effectively ostracise themselves from the decisions of the republican majority congress in order to win the popular vote. What do you all think?

[Juggs]

crap i meant to post this in our politics forum. can a mod please move?

[Corey]

Originally Posted by Juggs

I'm thinking a

clinton/obama democrat ticket

mccain / giuliani republican ticket


It would be a hell of a race, but i think Bush has seriously screwed the republican chances for an 08 victory. Mccain and giuliani would have to basically shit all over Bush's recent decisions ( iraq, handling domestic issues,etc) and effectively ostracise themselves from the decisions of the republican majority congress in order to win the popular vote. What do you all think?

Fortunately for them the popular vote means absolutely nothing. But in all honesty I think a republican will get elected again. Bush has dug a hole so deep that it will take far longer than the two years until the presidential election to fix it all. It will also be difficult for the democrat winners of the last elections to get much done anyway as long as they are at odds with Bush. I think the general public will view this as the democratic majority's failure and vote republican again. Unfortunately (or maybe fortunately) their votes mean nothing.

[Juggs]

Originally Posted by Corey

Fortunately for them the popular vote means absolutely nothing.

while this is true and this is how bush essential "stole" the 00 and 04 elections, by focusing on the states with the majority of electorial votes, im just wondering how the parties will do

[Nikki]

I love Giuliani but I'm hesitant to vote for another Republican. I'm thinking Obama. Once it gets closer I will look into the issues in greater detail.

[darkcloud]

As much as everyone thinks Bush is solely to blame for everything, I still think a lot of people realized they may have made a mistake voteing for so many democrats just for the fact they were a democrat. Just cuz a politician is a Democrat doesn't mean he can't fuck up just like anyone else. People right now are voting blind which is ridiculous. This is also to do with the Press. I agree the bad spots need to be pointed out but there has to be a line. We smear OUR OWN FUCKING PRESIDENT in front of the world. Our country is the superpower here yet we try to openly make our President look like a jackass and that shouldn't be acceptable.

Also IMO Clinton/Obama won't win no matter what. Mainly for the fact that this country nor the rest of the world is ready for the USA to have a famale president. Too many countries we deal with still look down upon women as a lesser person which will hurt many of our political ties. I think a Black man would have a better chance right now then Hillary Clinton.

[Corey]

Originally Posted by darkcloud

Our country is the superpower here yet we try to openly make our President look like a jackass and that shouldn't be acceptable.

We don't exactly have to try, have you ever watched him on TV?

[Juggs]

Originally Posted by darkcloud

As much as everyone thinks Bush is solely to blame for everything, I still think a lot of people realized they may have made a mistake voteing for so many democrats just for the fact they were a democrat. Just cuz a politician is a Democrat doesn't mean he can't fuck up just like anyone else. People right now are voting blind which is ridiculous. This is also to do with the Press. I agree the bad spots need to be pointed out but there has to be a line. We smear OUR OWN FUCKING PRESIDENT in front of the world. Our country is the superpower here yet we try to openly make our President look like a jackass and that shouldn't be acceptable.

Also IMO Clinton/Obama won't win no matter what. Mainly for the fact that this country nor the rest of the world is ready for the USA to have a famale president. Too many countries we deal with still look down upon women as a lesser person which will hurt many of our political ties. I think a Black man would have a better chance right now then Hillary Clinton.

I would agree with you on the notion that we do openly "bash" our president - but that's the nature of our society. its a free and open society and limiting that freedom or speech makes us no greater than say china where they openly limit anything said about the government. I dont know about you, but i would rather not worry about getting arrested or suppressed in some way just because i dont agree with a certain decision made by our leaders.

on the notion of hillary - i dont agree. we have a dem. majority congress that announced before the november election that nancy would become the speaker. the dem's still won and she became speaker. we have a sec. of state that is female and she's doing extremely well for herself. If anything, the united states should set a precedient - that we can and will elect world leaders that are female, colored or any other "different" standard than what has happened since the days of george washington.

What you mean to tell me that germany can elect a woman chancellor and we cant? Are the german's really that much more advanced than us? Sure they build a hell of a car, but in politics... come on

[darkcloud]

Originally Posted by Corey

We don't exactly have to try, have you ever watched him on TV?

That's fine let him make an idiot of himself but we don't need to bash him everytime, do we?

Originally Posted by Juggs

I would agree with you on the notion that we do openly "bash" our president - but that's the nature of our society. its a free and open society and limiting that freedom or speech makes us no greater than say china where they openly limit anything said about the government. I dont know about you, but i would rather not worry about getting arrested or suppressed in some way just because i dont agree with a certain decision made by our leaders.

I agree with this as well, but it's become the "in thing" at say the Oscars or Grammy's. Let's all laugh at our President, HAHA. It's an awards ceremony for some over paid ass hats yet they still want to crack jokes about the President, almost cuz their famous they feel their entitled to do so. This is a problem. It's cool that CNN and Fox have their own views so people can make an informed decision. But this country is full of idiots dumb enough to vote on something because Leonardo DiCaprio or whoever is voting that way, not because they are making a thought out decision.

Originally Posted by Juggs

on the notion of hillary - i dont agree. we have a dem. majority congress that announced before the november election that nancy would become the speaker. the dem's still won and she became speaker. we have a sec. of state that is female and she's doing extremely well for herself. If anything, the united states should set a precedient - that we can and will elect world leaders that are female, colored or any other "different" standard than what has happened since the days of george washington.

Yes, but they are both just the House Speaker and the Secretary of State, not the President and Chief of the USA which is totally different. Do you think other countries really care if the House Speaker or Sec. of State or any other top position is a female? I don't think so, but if their being told what's up by a Women President it may and can hurt.

Originally Posted by Juggs

What you mean to tell me that germany can elect a woman chancellor and we cant? Are the german's really that much more advanced than us? Sure they build a hell of a car, but in politics... come on

Again, that's just Germany. It's nothing about being more advanced, it's about the political position we are in around the world. When a war breaks out between 2 countries it's the US stepping in, not Germany. I wish our country could accept a Women or Black President but voting for one just cuz she's a Democrat could be a HUGE mistake.

[UncleWede]

I had completely dismissed Hilary until I heard her response to the state of the union address. I'm registered with no party affiliation, so I may not get a chance to vote for anyone, but at this point Hilary has my vote. Obama is slick, but I don't think he has enough time under his belt to run the whole country. I really don't see him running as VP, I think he came out and said that several times already.
McCain won't take no crap if he gets in, I'm just not sure I want him because of some of his hardline positions. Not at all a Rep/Dem thing.

[Juggs]

Originally Posted by darkcloud

That's fine let him make an idiot of himself but we don't need to bash him everytime, do we?
I agree with this as well, but it's become the "in thing" at say the Oscars or Grammy's. Let's all laugh at our President, HAHA. It's an awards ceremony for some over paid ass hats yet they still want to crack jokes about the President, almost cuz their famous they feel their entitled to do so.

ah i see where you're coming from - i dont watch awards shows. like you said, they are mostly BS coming from overpaid actors who don't know their ass from a two dollar bill. I would take anything said on those shows with a grain of salt - i was referring specifically to major news outlets and newspapers with editorials "bashing" bush

Yes, but they are both just the House Speaker and the Secretary of State, not the President and Chief of the USA which is totally different. Do you think other countries really care if the House Speaker or Sec. of State or any other top position is a female? I don't think so, but if their being told what's up by a Women President it may and can hurt.

how could it hurt? Could it hurt any more than the woman soldiers we have on the battlefield right now fighting for this country while you and I take the liberty of discussing this on an internet forum? I would think that a woman commander and chief can be just as effective as a female soldier right now. But that's just my opinion... im not a woman so I can't honestly speak for how the sexist society works against them

Again, that's just Germany. It's nothing about being more advanced, it's about the political position we are in around the world. When a war breaks out between 2 countries it's the US stepping in, not Germany. I wish our country could accept a Women or Black President but voting for one just cuz she's a Democrat could be a HUGE mistake.

agreed, but my point is that women leaders are becoming more accepted. germany might not stick its nose in the middle of things ( mind you they are very smart about their politics), but they are not some 3rd class country... they are extremely advanced, an integral part of NATO, and I think that one can safely say that their chancellor has done a good job and is respected by all leaders.


Either way countries dont fear Bush or his staff... they fear the american military muscle. Its not Bush or his successor ( black,white,woman,gay,etc) that will be on the battlefield.... its the generals and soldiers of this country which will win or lose any future engagements.

[Juggs]

Originally Posted by UncleWede

I had completely dismissed Hilary until I heard her response to the state of the union address. I'm registered with no party affiliation, so I may not get a chance to vote for anyone, but at this point Hilary has my vote. Obama is slick, but I don't think he has enough time under his belt to run the whole country. I really don't see him running as VP, I think he came out and said that several times already.
McCain won't take no crap if he gets in, I'm just not sure I want him because of some of his hardline positions. Not at all a Rep/Dem thing.

true but i think it would be an awesome political move for obama to take the VP position and have his supporters vote hillary. The experience he would gain as VP would be immense

[scottwww]

Is this racist?

Barack the Magic Negro

Is this racist?

Obama got a white momma

[chbrules]

Obama vs Juliani

[platelet]

Originally Posted by darkcloud

As much as everyone thinks Bush is solely to blame for everything, I still think a lot of people realized they may have made a mistake voteing for so many democrats just for the fact they were a democrat. Just cuz a politician is a Democrat doesn't mean he can't fuck up just like anyone else. People right now are voting blind which is ridiculous. This is also to do with the Press. I agree the bad spots need to be pointed out but there has to be a line. We smear OUR OWN FUCKING PRESIDENT in front of the world. Our country is the superpower here yet we try to openly make our President look like a jackass and that shouldn't be acceptable.

Also IMO Clinton/Obama won't win no matter what. Mainly for the fact that this country nor the rest of the world is ready for the USA to have a famale president. Too many countries we deal with still look down upon women as a lesser person which will hurt many of our political ties. I think a Black man would have a better chance right now then Hillary Clinton.

Bush makes himself look like a jackass in front of the world, he doesn't need help. What's with this whole idea that people can't openly criticize politicians???? Oh, im not patriotic now??? fuck that. it makes us look weak??? fuck that, our soldiers dying in iraq makes us look weak. This administration is well on its way to being the worst administration to ever go down in history. govt got bigger, spending is through the roof, borders aren't safe, armed forces are depleted. what the fuck is this guy going to be remembered for? and dont tell me its the "war on terror." still haven't caught bin laden, and thousands of lives (OUR GUYS!) are being waisted on this pointless war in iraq. This is the biggest blunder since vietnam, how fucking embarassing for a superpower. if we withdraw from iraq, there's going to be mayhem and chaos???? who the fuck cares, at least our soldiers aren't gonna die in the chaos. Since when do you care about about them, none of these rednecks in the "heartland" gave of fuck about iraqis, or for that matter, knows the difference between a sunni and a shia. what a fucking joke. we should really get over ourselves as a country, and start taking care of ourselves instead of "bringing democracy" to people who prefer to live in the dark ages. Other countries we deal with look down on women?? we probably dont want political ties with them anyway. countries previously with female leaders: england, india, pakistan!, canada, france, israel, this list goes on.....This country is ready for a change to anything other than a C-average chump riding daddy's name and money.

[Ninjaneer]

Arnold Schwarzenegger!

[scottwww]

Originally Posted by platelet

Bush makes himself look like a jackass in front of the world, he doesn't need help. What's with this whole idea that people can't openly criticize politicians???? Oh, im not patriotic now??? fuck that. it makes us look weak??? fuck that, our soldiers dying in iraq makes us look weak. This administration is well on its way to being the worst administration to ever go down in history. govt got bigger, spending is through the roof, borders aren't safe, armed forces are depleted. what the fuck is this guy going to be remembered for? and dont tell me its the "war on terror." still haven't caught bin laden, and thousands of lives (OUR GUYS!) are being waisted on this pointless war in iraq. This is the biggest blunder since vietnam, how fucking embarassing for a superpower. if we withdraw from iraq, there's going to be mayhem and chaos???? who the fuck cares, at least our soldiers aren't gonna die in the chaos. Since when do you care about about them, none of these rednecks in the "heartland" gave of fuck about iraqis, or for that matter, knows the difference between a sunni and a shia. what a fucking joke. we should really get over ourselves as a country, and start taking care of ourselves instead of "bringing democracy" to people who prefer to live in the dark ages. Other countries we deal with look down on women?? we probably dont want political ties with them anyway. countries previously with female leaders: england, india, pakistan!, canada, france, israel, this list goes on.....This country is ready for a change to anything other than a C-average chump riding daddy's name and money.

You hate Bush. So what? A lot of people hate Bush. He isn't running for office again. Of those who are running or are likely to run is there anybody who will live up to your expectations? Who is it and what will they do (not what would they have done)?

We may never agree about G.W. Bush, Bill Clinton, Ronald Reagan, Jimmy Carter, FDR, Lincoln, Washington, or others. But it doesn't really matter much anyway. They are done.

Maybe we could find some agreement on future objectives. Then maybe there would be a candidate who would at least give lip service to the same and would be supported by us both.

Unlikely? Yes. Possible? Yes.

[DFW_M]

Simply said -- we will have the FIRST -- either a woman or a black for the Prez. What has been done to this country and to the reputation in the World is not going to help either Juliani or McCain, so...
Though, I cannot stand W, and would support any War Crimes triel agains him, I am not impressed with any of the candidates so far...

We need to snap out of the "World super-power" mode as those times are behind us. We moved nowhere in last 10+ years, while others (like China, India, Russia...) have seen huge changes and improvements. They are quiet and mind own business, while (in the same period) we (tried) invaded quite a few countries and put our noses in every corner of the world... A country with a $9 trillion debt should think more about the future of its own instead of others... A country with the WORST medical system of the developed world and with the shameful education system and many other flaws that could be improved with $2B/week should seriously re-think the plan for our future...

And no, I don't solely blame Bush for all this, it started before him. However, he really sped it up and brought us down pretty low in last 6 years...

[platelet]

Originally Posted by scottwww

You hate Bush. So what? A lot of people hate Bush. He isn't running for office again. Of those who are running or are likely to run is there anybody who will live up to your expectations? Who is it and what will they do (not what would they have done)?

We may never agree about G.W. Bush, Bill Clinton, Ronald Reagan, Jimmy Carter, FDR, Lincoln, Washington, or others. But it doesn't really matter much anyway. They are done.

Maybe we could find some agreement on future objectives. Then maybe there would be a candidate who would at least give lip service to the same and would be supported by us both.

Unlikely? Yes. Possible? Yes.

my expectations have been lowered by bush, id settle for anyone who is intelligent and articulate at this point. someone who doesn't sound like a baffling idiot everytime he's on camera. so yes, there are candidates in both parties who are intelligent and dont want to perpetuate a pointless war. that's all im asking for at this point

[scottwww]

Some people were pretty good at picking 'em.

[Blake]

back to P&R where you can bitch about how much obama has shit in your cheerios.