[MikeyComputers]

hey quick question, wonder if anyone knows.. i know i am jumping the gun a little they havn't even hit stage 2.....

how would it work?... lets just say sunday comes and you want to do some "spirited" driving... do i fill up my meth tank plug the acessport in and change the map then go out for a drive..?

there is no possiblity of having a double tune in the ecu correct? also how long does these meth tanks last? don't you need a failsafe to adjust the cars tune when the meth is done? or do you need to keep an eye on your gauge and when its almost empty pull over and change your tune.

thanks

[E90Vader]

Anybody? I'm curious about this as well!

[Mike@N54Tuning.com]

Flashes will have difficulty incorporating meth like the piggy backs do. Right now the piggybacks (JB4, V5) can read meth flow and add boost and revert back to a safe map if meth fails. With flashes, there is no such possibility right now. If you switch to a race map and meth fails with a flash there is no reverting back to a safe map as you will be running a race map on pump gas.

Mike

[mithiral67]

Originally Posted by MikeyComputers

hey quick question, wonder if anyone knows.. i know i am jumping the gun a little they havn't even hit stage 2.....

how would it work?... lets just say sunday comes and you want to do some "spirited" driving... do i fill up my meth tank plug the acessport in and change the map then go out for a drive..?

there is no possiblity of having a double tune in the ecu correct? also how long does these meth tanks last? don't you need a failsafe to adjust the cars tune when the meth is done? or do you need to keep an eye on your gauge and when its almost empty pull over and change your tune.

thanks

Having done some research on running a kit with cobb, here is the info I have found.

Yes, you will have to run a separate map designed to run meth, a map cobb indicated it would develop, but I am hoping to use ATR to get right for my car. No flash vendor has come up with a double tune as far as I have seen.

The life of a tank depends on how you drive. Some folks refill after a 20 min track run and other go 1-3 weeks between filling. There are a lot of different size tanks that will also effect the time between refills.

You do need a fail safe, however, I have done limited research on this. I am looking into it now. I intend to push my car to the very edge of safe levels of boost and timing without meth, then just add meth on top for safetly purposes. So if meth fails, I am still hopefully at a "safe" boost and timing that wont allow significant knock.

[Jeff@TopGearSolutions]

You can run meth on a Cobb no problem.

However its pointless right now.

You wont be able to increase boost or increase ignition. You will find minimal if any performance gain stuck on a stage 1 tune. Until stage 2 or more comes out its simply a waste of methanol.

You can run a basic kit, set meth to flow at 10 PSI and give it a whirl.

In the end when more boost is available you will want to add in your failsafes and flow sensors.

[acdHQK713K]

Snow Performance safeinjection + boost bypass solenoid is the best solution I have come up with for now with the help of forum members.

Edit: I would wait for Cobb to make an official statement regarding future integration of meth.

[BerkTechnology]

If your car never heatsoaks then the meth would do very little for you. There are other mods I would do first (downpipes, exhaust, intercooler). Having meth on an otherwise stock setup is like having a really efficient intercooler all the time.

[mithiral67]

Originally Posted by MikeyComputers

don't you need a failsafe to adjust the cars tune when the meth is done?

For the kit I am looking at, the controller, once it senses flow stopping, sends a signal that trips the wastegates to drop boost. Its not a nice as the piggy that simply drops down a map (considering timing and boost), but it serves the purposes just fine.

[dzenno]

Originally Posted by mithiral67

For the kit I am looking at, the controller, once it senses flow stopping, sends a signal that trips the wastegates to drop boost. Its not a nice as the piggy that simply drops down a map (considering timing and boost), but it serves the purposes just fine.

which one is that?

[mithiral67]

Aquamist

[acdHQK713K]

Originally Posted by mithiral67

Aquamist

More details. What is the low flow signal sent to exactly? A solenoid?

[mithiral67]

I am still learning. Here is how the system was explained to work on another platform.

The HFS-3 have an internal failsafe relay. It can be used to reduce boost down to wastegate presure by cutting the cable between the ECU and boost solenoid valve upon failsafe activation.

[dzenno]

Reduced down to "wastegate pressure"?? That doesn't make sense..think it might just be worded wrong??

[acdHQK713K]

Originally Posted by dzenno

Reduced down to "wastegate pressure"?? That doesn't make sense..think it might just be worded wrong??

I thought about the wastegate option for a failsafe but it just seems like nobody has done it/it isn't a viable option.

Still have the bypass solenoid hooked up the DVs as an option in the back of my head.

[acdHQK713K]

Here is the HFS-3 manual for reference: http://www.aquamist.co.uk/HFS3/HFS3v1w1.pdf

What steps to take after the fail-safe triggers
The most common way to minimise engine damage
in the absence of injection is to reduce the boost
pressure.

1. For engines with electronic boost control valve:
The grey harness contains a set of relay contacts that
goes open circuit when the fail-safe is triggered. See
page 18.2 and 19 for more details.

2. For engines with MBC (manual boost controller):
The onboard failsafe relay can be used to control a
3-port solenoid valve to by-pass the MBC. Essentially
reducing full turbo boost to the wastegate. See page
19 for more details.

3. For an engine with map switching capabilities:
The pink wire on the grey connector has a dedicated
output to perform such a task. This pin can be user
configured to match the signal requirement of the
“third party” ECU to switch map. See page 18-1 for
more details. This pin is factory configured to give a
5V for “OK” and “0v” is “flow fault”
Maximum current of this output is 5mA

Correct me if I am wrong, but those options don't seem to apply to a Cobb equipped car.

[biz77]

Originally Posted by Stangorang

Here is the HFS-3 manual for reference: http://www.aquamist.co.uk/HFS3/HFS3v1w1.pdf

What steps to take after the fail-safe triggers
The most common way to minimise engine damage
in the absence of injection is to reduce the boost
pressure.

1. For engines with electronic boost control valve:
The grey harness contains a set of relay contacts that
goes open circuit when the fail-safe is triggered. See
page 18.2 and 19 for more details.

2. For engines with MBC (manual boost controller):
The onboard failsafe relay can be used to control a
3-port solenoid valve to by-pass the MBC. Essentially
reducing full turbo boost to the wastegate. See page
19 for more details.

3. For an engine with map switching capabilities:
The pink wire on the grey connector has a dedicated
output to perform such a task. This pin can be user
configured to match the signal requirement of the
“third party” ECU to switch map. See page 18-1 for
more details. This pin is factory configured to give a
5V for “OK” and “0v” is “flow fault”
Maximum current of this output is 5mA

Correct me if I am wrong, but those options don't seem to apply to a Cobb equipped car.

#1 is applicable. The N54 stores pressure in an accumulator, which is driven off a pump and then uses two solenoids to control the flow of this pressure to the wastegates of each turbocharger. In a fault situation you would either need to tell the factory solenoids to stay open and therefore the wastegates stay open and thus little to no positive boost is developed or insert your own solenoids that will bypass the oem solenoids to open the wastegates.

[acdHQK713K]

Originally Posted by biz77

#1 is applicable. The N54 stores pressure in an accumulator, which is driven off a pump and then uses two solenoids to control the flow of this pressure to the wastegates of each turbocharger. In a fault situation you would either need to tell the factory solenoids to stay open and therefore the wastegates stay open and thus little to no positive boost is developed or insert your own solenoids that will bypass the oem solenoids to open the wastegates.

Sure, but I am not sure where you are going to send that fault signal. I think you could use a separate solenoid to disrupt the vacuum, but that would require placement of two solenoids on the passenger side of the car, if I understand the diagrams correctly. In comparison, using the DV option would require one solenoid before the Y fitting in the vacuum lines, and the solenoid would be installed on the driver side presumably where the majority of the connections are coming into the engine bay anyway. Always interested in options though.

[biz77]

Originally Posted by Stangorang

Sure, but I am not sure where you are going to send that fault signal. I think you could use a separate solenoid to disrupt the vacuum, but that would require placement of two solenoids on the passenger side of the car, if I understand the diagrams correctly. In comparison, using the DV option would require one solenoid before the Y fitting in the vacuum lines, and the solenoid would be installed on the driver side presumably where the majority of the connections are coming into the engine bay anyway. Always interested in options though.

Going to look at the diagrams in the sticky... This sounds like another possibility. What about limp codes when releasing the pressurized air through the bypass valves?

Starting to wonder what (if any) limp codes would be thrown by opening the wastegates in the manner I described above.

[acdHQK713K]

Originally Posted by biz77

Going to look at the diagrams in the sticky... This sounds like another possibility. What about limp codes when releasing the pressurized air through the bypass valves?

Starting to wonder what (if any) limp codes would be thrown by opening the wastegates in the manner I described above.

I think it is safe to assume both options would send the car into a limp mode or at the very least throw codes.

[biz77]

I'm not seeing how you would actuate the bypass valves in a fault situation. You need vacuum.

[acdHQK713K]

Originally Posted by biz77

I'm not seeing how you would actuate the bypass valves in a fault situation. You need vacuum.

Boost holds the diverter valves closed. They open when there is a pressure differential. Put a solenoid that vents to air in those vacuum lines that is tripped by a fault signal and you create that differential, thus opening the DVs and venting boost back into the intake side. I may have completely misinterpreted something along the way so correct me if I am wrong.

[biz77]

Originally Posted by Stangorang

Boost holds the diverter valves closed. They open when there is a pressure differential. Put a solenoid that vents to air in those vacuum lines that is tripped by a fault signal and you create that differential, thus opening the DVs and venting boost back into the intake side. I may have completely misinterpreted something along the way so correct me if I am wrong.

Okay! I see it. .3bar delta overtakes the spring and cracks them open.