[calisnowripper]

I made the mistake (apparently) of buying a used (lease-return) '07 335i exactly 1 year and 10,000 miles ago.

Long story (somewhat) short, at 60,000 miles, the engine malfunction light (yellow) came on and I could hear the valves ticking. I took it in and they just called me 15 minutes ago (I've calmed down a little) and told me there are 3 inches of sludge and the engine will have to be broken down and cleaned.

I am aghast, of course, that a lease-return could be in such bad shape after 10,000 miles.

I'm waiting for the used car manager to return my call. The mechanic suggested I call my insurance company because the warranty company told me they weren't covering it. I'm pretty sure Allstate won't cover this but I'll call anyway because I'm freaking out.

Does anyone have any experience with this, or suggestions? Thanks in advance everyone.

[Never-Enough]

Is it a CPO car? If so & they say no coverage, call BMWNA.

If you bought a Non-CPO car & they refuse to cover it I'd still call BMWNA.

Take it as high up the ladder as you need to until you get it taken care of.

[calisnowripper]

It was non-CPO because the previous lease-holder had the Stage-1 software installed.

As a layman, this seems like they pawned a car off on me that they didn't even check out before they sold it to me. From what I hear, 3" is major neglect and as computerized as BMWs are, they should have known that, I'd think.

I will definitely be writing letters to BMWNA, especially since BMW Finance is carrying the loan. Thanks for the idea.

[apc3libras]

Had you done any maintenance (oil change, fluid flush, etc.) since you bought the car, up until the engine light came on?

[RX7guy]

You bought a used car out of warranty. If this doesn't answer your question then you are pretty clueless

[J02 335i]

How is this even possible, 3 inches of sludge? The car would have no oil pressure, would overheat and probably hardly even crank over, I would ask to see this in person and take pics and post them, I have been working on vehicles for over 15 years and never seen this. I'm very curious.

[cotmfk]

3 inches is a ton. Good luck with the fight. How much are they quoting you for the repair?

[mjollnir19]

damn that's hit man, good luck!

[JayKay335i]

They dont have to do anything with a least return if its non-CPO. They just clean it, auction it, and sell it to a consumer. You bought a car without a warranty. You pay for any problems with the car.

This is why people spend the extra money on warranties.

I'd say good luck, but they're not going to do anything for you. Take it to an indy shop.

[drivejeffsbass]

Was the car not running properly? Or was it just the engine light and ticking that told you something was wrong? I would get a second opinion. Especially since car has no warranty.

[momstmg78]

They are probably talking about sludge on intake valves(known problem with n54) , it wouldn't matter if you changed the oil every thousand miles. If this is the problem, take it home and clean them yourself.

[Kolyan2k]

Originally Posted by Never-Enough

Is it a CPO car? If so & they say no coverage, call BMWNA.

If you bought a Non-CPO car & they refuse to cover it I'd still call BMWNA.

Take it as high up the ladder as you need to until you get it taken care of.

why would you call BMWNA if he doesn't have CPO ? you buy a car with out warranty, you pay for repairs......its pretty clear....... and they know ECU was modified too


maybe some certified BMW shop can fix it cheaper then dealer....i wouldn't just take it to regular mechanic.

[stressdoc]

Dinan. Why would BMW do anything?

[Gregxi]

3 inches of sludge is bullshit...plain and simple
get your car out of there
What code did it throw?
I have never seen more than a 1/4 inch of build up in 25 years of working in and owning a dealership.

[JaysBlueE92]

You're looking at several thousand dollars if you have them fix it. As others said, sounds a little fishy and you should def have an indy shop give you another quote, at least to pinpoint the problem if nothing else

[calisnowripper]

@apc3: I hadn't done any maintenance yet. It just came time for an oil change so that was on the agenda. So much for 15K intervals.

@J02: I'm no mechanic, but I am an engineer and 3" seems unreasonable. I don't know if he is talking 3" in the deepest corner of the oil pan, or 3" coating everything. I'm going to ask for the service records, which I presume they'd have since it was under bumper-to-bumper until I got it. They said they scoped it through some port or another but I'm going in today to get more details. The car cranks like the day it rolled off the line. In the time I was waiting for my appointment, it idled a little rough while it was cold but that was it. I'll post pics when I figure out where I'm having it serviced.

@cot: I'll be getting a quote when I go down there today. I'll probably have to put my daughter on a street corner.

@jaykay: I'm not a mechanic, so it might be unreasonable, but I've always been under the impression that BMWNA had enough integrity to make sure cars it sold were in pristine condition. I would have gone to Ruiz Motorcars if I had thought I'd be rolling the dice buying direct from the manufacturer, but that's neither here nor there.

@everyone that mentioned a warranty: BMW sold me a warranty for $4K, but the warranty company won't honor it "because of the sludge", according to the BMW mechanic. I have to call the warranty company myself, perhaps after I take it to an indy shop, and get more details.BMW says I'll need a new head, and new valves, as well as the cleaning.

@drivejeffs: The car ran smooth until the engine malfunction (which was intermittent). In that week I was waiting for my appointment, the ticking got louder, and startup would be rough in the morning. In the last 2 days, the red oil lamp would come on for a moment, and then go off.

@moms: I did all of the maintenance on my E46 after the 100K warranty ran out so I would definitely do any work that I could on this one, though my E46's engine wasn't so tightly packed in there. >.<

@koly and stress: I presume BMWNA would take no responsibility because the car is modified, but I'm hoping they will at least acknowledge that something fishy is going on with the engine if there is that much sludge (supposedly) in there, which might give me a leg to stand on with either BMWNA or the warranty company? I figure a few letters to this dealer, Autonation(the owner), and BMWNA couldn't hurt any. The lease was literally returned the day the sold it to me, which in hind sight probably should have been a red flag.

@Greg: I agree. I'll ask them for all of the codes it threw while I'm down there. It seems the consensus is that I should pay them their diagnosis fee and run to an indy shop. I've never had BMW do any work on my vehicles but this is my first one that showed malfunction so I freaked out.

@Jay: A few thousand I could do, but I definitely don't want to pay BMW a premium, especially if they're up to some shenanigans. I only wish I hadn't let them call the warranty company because I'm sure I'm on some sort of black list now.

Thank you everyone for taking the time to respond. I'll have to find a good indy shop in Houston and take it there on Saturday. My mechanic (that works on my wife's KIA) used to be BMW certified so he might know of one. I'll scour the web and see what I come up with.

I'll keep you all posted on the mysterious sludge!

[RoundelM3]

Just my 2 cents worth: Dinan didn't cause the sludge - lack of proper oil changes and other required maintenance likely did. To not honor the warranty because it was "modified" with something BMW sold to the previous owner and honored the car's warranty with the Stage 1 installed is downright dishonest and at the very least, shady business practice. I'd talk with the warranty company and if they continue to resist paying your claim, mention legal action, Better Business Bureau, and reporting them to your State Comptroller's office and that of whatever state their headquarters is in.

That said, "3 inches of sludge" is one of the most ridiculous descriptions I've ever heard. I agree with everyone else - I would want to personally view what they're telling you about, get pictures, and an expert opinion on how something like that could occur with nothing more than "ticking" coming from the engine, which per your description, is running fine otherwise. I'd call BS on this one!

[cotmfk]

FWIW, a full manual carbon clean on my RS 4 was $800. All labor charges. (warranty covered the work for me, though!)

[aesfah]

clean it and then sell it - tell the buyer you cleaned it.

[IancoleTX]

You're going to have to have carbon cleaned off the valves. This is an issue with all DI engines, N54 included. Since you are out of warranty, it sounds like it's coming out of pocket. It is not an incredibly complex job, and lots of info has been posted about it. If you have the tools and abilities, I would make it a weekend project, otherwise take it to a reputable indy shop and get it done for hopefully under a grand.

Good luck.

[David1]

Originally Posted by roundel335

Just my 2 cents worth: Dinan didn't cause the sludge - lack of proper oil changes and other required maintenance likely did. To not honor the warranty because it was "modified" with something BMW sold to the previous owner and honored the car's warranty with the Stage 1 installed is downright dishonest and at the very least, shady business practice. I'd talk with the warranty company and if they continue to resist paying your claim, mention legal action, Better Business Bureau, and reporting them to your State Comptroller's office and that of whatever state their headquarters is in.

That said, "3 inches of sludge" is one of the most ridiculous descriptions I've ever heard. I agree with everyone else - I would want to personally view what they're telling you about, get pictures, and an expert opinion on how something like that could occur with nothing more than "ticking" coming from the engine, which per your description, is running fine otherwise. I'd call BS on this one!

BMW did not sell the Dinan tune. Dinan did through and authorized Dinan dealer that happens to be a BMW dealer. As soon as the tune was installed, the BMW warranty on the drivetrain is voided and Dinan picks up from there.

Now the question is, can an extended warranty be valid on a tuned car? I bet the fine print states there is no coverage on a modified vehical.

If the low oil pressure light is on (not the low oil warning) than you have more problems than just the cylinder head. The original owner might have done the oil changes and not used the correct oil. Might be time for a used motor if there is an oil pressure problem from sludge since the bearings on the crankshaft will start to score from lack of oil pressure.

[calisnowripper]

@David1: That is a good question about the warranty. The dealer sold me the warranty specifically to cover the modified vehicle, so I assumed the car was covered, but I'll have to go over the fine print.

The oil pressure light was definitely on.

I'll have to talk to the original owner. He is actually the finance manager at the dealer. He was completely anal about the car so I couldn't imagine he was using the wrong oil, or doing it himself for that matter. We'll see what he says.

@roundel: My sentiments exactly. I'm definitely going to pursue the warranty angle until my hair is gray.

I've never had any dealings with sludge so I couldn't tell the mechanic he was full of it over the phone but he most certainly said "3 inches" of it.

The oil pressure last week and the rough idle while cold for the past 3 weeks were the only symptoms, along with the week-long ticking (which sounded like something valve-related to my layman ears). The car was just at BMW service 2 weeks ago for a fuel system-related recall so I was hoping this was all part of that problem.