[phil200tdi]

Given that this is such a popular mod in the USA, I Just wondered if anyone is using Meth in the UK?

Benefits seem to be (from Devils own site):
•Increase horsepower safely by 10-15%.
•Lower air temperatures by 50-200+ degrees.
•Decrease cylinder temperatures up to 300 degrees.
•Reduce the effects of heat soak in warmer climates.
•Allows you to safely run more boost and timing.
•Reduces carbon and helps maintain a clean combustion chamber.
•Increases octane at user programmable boost levels.

The main function of water methanol injection is preventing detonation. Detonation is caused by high temperatures and pressure developed in the combustion chamber. Water has a high latent heat content, which makes it extremely effective at preventing the onset of detonation. Water injection also reduces the production of NOx (oxides of nitrogen). Methanol, with its 116 octane and high flash point, further reduces the chances of detonation. While water is not combustible, it has a greater capacity to cool the intake air temps more than methanol alone. This is why we recommend a 50/50 mixture being misted into your boosted engine. Methanol also effectively increases the octane rating of the fuel, allowing performance gains when used in supercharged and turbocharged applications.


Link to FAQ: http://www.methanol-injection.co.uk/faq_1.php

Is it true of 335i that it would reduce carbon buildup and hence the need for a strip down? Seems like an interesting (and cheap) power and cooling option!

thoughts?

[neil@JuicedUpTuning]

Hi Phil,

We looked to stock meth kits but the demand was tiny in the UK.

Whilst the above is true and its is a very cost effective power adder, its not to be taken lightly and anyone considering METH should spend the time to research and understand the pro's and Con's of METH use.

The JB4 has progressive meth control and adjusts according to inputs from the CANBus Data. From a Safety point of view the monitoring of meth flow means the JB4 can protect the engine from knock and detonation should flow stop due to blockages or empty METH tanks. BMS recommends that the METH kits are fully compatible with the JB4 METH Integration features. A standalone METH kits is asking for trouble.

Evidence shows that METH does help to prevent carbon buildup.

Neil

[phil200tdi]

I remember you were considering the meth kits. I'm not sure i'm going down this route but am concerned by the amount of carbon build up experienced by others..

I'd probably only consider the bms kit due to jb4 integration. More research then..

[idnan]

One thing to note is that running meth does prevent carbon buildup but will not get rid of existing carbon deposits.

I was one of the few who contacted Neil about importing a meth system but it is something that requires constant attention to make sure its working right. You will get massive power gains for the cost, much more bang for your buck than DPs or an FMIC.

[Alpina_B3_Lux]

I've been running meth for some time now, a progressive Snow Performance stage III system with two nozzles to be precise. Was quite a pain to install, as my shop isn't too gifted with electronics and cabling, and it took a while to get everything set up correctly.

It works very well, and as to constant attention - not really. Of course you should check more or less regularly whether the meth flows (I intend to install a flow gauge at one point in the future), and clean out the filters of the nozzles from time to time. But that's basically it, as the hardware itself is rather simple, not much can go wrong there (in particular with the Snow Performance hardware which is very good quality).

The power gains of course depend on the tune you have. With the piggies such as JB4 or PROcede you can dial in more aggressive timing and boost settings fairly easy. I'm running a moderate flash tune (GIAC stage 2 race) which has an adapted timing curve that one should run only with race fuel or meth. I've seen an increase of 25hp and 30Nm at the crank, which is around the same amount that you would get from installing downpipes.

Meth consumption depends very much on your driving style. When I'm commuting I almost don't use it (as it is dialed in to be activated only at higher boost); last week-end on the Nürburgring I used almost one full tank of meth (around 9 liters) with one tank of fuel.

As I've got the Rixster boost gauge with CANbus integration installed, I can see the drop in intake air temperatures immediately - in summer they dropped from around 42 degrees Celsius while idling / driving slowly to 20 degrees immediately.

It's a rather complex modification, compared to others, as the installation is complicated (at least for the progressive system with controller and two solenoids that I have) and you need to dial it in properly to avoid quench. Ideally I would also need a proper failsafe that drops boost and timing when the meth flow stops; however, as the GIAC flash is not very aggressive, even a stop in meth flow would probably not result in a knocking event. Personally I use it less as a power adder than as a measure to relieve stress to the engine and prevent the carbon buildup.

Alpina_B3_Lux

[idnan]

Great information Alpina, good to see first hand experience of running meth.

I'm actually running an ER Chargepipe which has a single meth bung if I should go that way. My plan was to run an evolve flash with the JB4 at the same time to use as a boost modifier/meth integrator.

[Adil]

this is soemthing i would be intrested in doing at some point too.

The ones which use the existing windscreen wiper washer tank seem like a good neat install solution and I think from what i've read they are meant to work well. I think Vishnu is the guy who sells these kits. This snow performance is another company ive read and heard good things about. I do want to do further investigation and increase my knowlege on the subject before i decide on weather to go for it or not.

[Alpina_B3_Lux]

Originally Posted by Adil

The ones which use the existing windscreen wiper washer tank seem like a good neat install solution and I think from what i've read they are meant to work well. I think Vishnu is the guy who sells these kits.

I'm not a fan of the windscreen wiper washer tank for meth for the following reasons:

- Crash: To have something easily flammable so close to your engine is not a good idea. In case of a crash, this could easily lead to your car going up into flames. The installation in the boot of the car is much safer for this IMO.

- Volume: As I wrote, I went through a full 9l tank of meth on one afternoon, with not even one full tank of fuel. Imagine how often you'd have to refill the much smaller washer tank.

- Usability: I would not really want to relinquish using my washer tank for the windscreen wipers, in particular in view of the rather bad weather that one is frequently subjected to.

Alpina_B3_Lux

[phil200tdi]

Originally Posted by Alpina_B3_Lux

Ideally I would also need a proper failsafe that drops boost and timing when the meth flow stops; however, as the GIAC flash is not very aggressive, even a stop in meth flow would probably not result in a knocking event. Personally I use it less as a power adder than as a measure to relieve stress to the engine and prevent the carbon buildup.

Alpina_B3_Lux

I would probably consider the BMS Meth Kit which integrates well with my JB4 and seems to have the requisite failsafes when meth flow stops.

Like you I'm not looking for power gains but less heat stress and to prevent carbon build up.

Only major issue/hurdle would be my car insurance - any idea what impact this would have?

[Adil]

Foudn this good link on SP Stage III http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=297336

[phil200tdi]

Good link..! Lots of work, I think the kits on the market now may be simpler.

It seems apparent from my research that water/meth injection does actually clean the engine including existing carbon deposits as opposed to just stopping further buildup.

Install and insurance are the biggest worries..

[neil@JuicedUpTuning]

Originally Posted by Alpina_B3_Lux

I'm not a fan of the windscreen wiper washer tank for meth for the following reasons:

- Crash: To have something easily flammable so close to your engine is not a good idea. In case of a crash, this could easily lead to your car going up into flames. The installation in the boot of the car is much safer for this IMO.

- Volume: As I wrote, I went through a full 9l tank of meth on one afternoon, with not even one full tank of fuel. Imagine how often you'd have to refill the much smaller washer tank.

- Usability: I would not really want to relinquish using my washer tank for the windscreen wipers, in particular in view of the rather bad weather that one is frequently subjected to.

Alpina_B3_Lux

Wind screen washer is flammable also so either way you have a flammable near the engine bay. The running of meth lines through the car is not without risk.

With the right mix you can wash your windows with it too.

Originally Posted by phil200tdi

I would probably consider the BMS Meth Kit which integrates well with my JB4 and seems to have the requisite failsafes when meth flow stops.

Like you I'm not looking for power gains but less heat stress and to prevent carbon build up.

Only major issue/hurdle would be my car insurance - any idea what impact this would have?

Very interested to hear what insurers say.

Through conversations the majority of after market tuning companies wont install Meth systems due to lack of experience and possible lack of insurance cover.

[m1bjr]

Just tell them its water injection.
I hardly think they are about to dip the tank, and its easily emptied...

[Alpina_B3_Lux]

Originally Posted by neil@JuicedUpTuning

Wind screen washer is flammable also so either way you have a flammable near the engine bay.

Wind screen washer fluid only contains negligible quantities of flammable substances. Not at all comparable to a meth tank where people are running at least 50% meth content, if not more.

Alpina_B3_Lux

[neil@JuicedUpTuning]

Originally Posted by Alpina_B3_Lux

Wind screen washer fluid only contains negligible quantities of flammable substances. Not at all comparable to a meth tank where people are running at least 50% meth content, if not more.

Alpina_B3_Lux

Sure, merely balancing both are flammable if you put an ignition source to them.

[Adil]

Question : Whats the diff between progressive injection and a normal style system? I still can#'t quite work it out

[phil200tdi]

From my understanding (limited!), the amount of meth injected varies dependent upon boost, revs, throttle position etc.

Some basic systems just inject at a certain rate when you are at certain throttle postition.

I maybe completely wrong!

[Adil]

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=565859