[Simple5]

Sending my spare set of turbos to a indie shop to see what they can do. What would you have these guys do if they were doing your turbos? Only thing out of the ordinary I want is to keep them water cooled. Hopefully we can get a good quality upgrade that's also in the price realm of the average garage modder. Im not getting my hopes up but if this thing works out it will be a good thing.

[Syndicategt]

Replace the 2 snails with 1 large hair dryer

[Simple5]

Originally Posted by Syndicategt

Replace the 2 snails with 1 large hair dryer

LoL

[Rob@RBTurbo]

For a compressor only upgrade all you have to do is machine the compressor housings, the centersections (to accept the bigger wheels), buy rebuild kits, clean, reassemble, and rebalance. Although the gains will be less significant and the Engines VE will essentially remain unchanged, you may still find this is for you as it'll be affordable. This is the typical offering as it's simplistic.

A caveat we have with used turbo cores is that the internal wastegates are often very worn, so you really don't want to sink more $$$ into housings that contain excessively worn internal wastegate components. So replacing those components becomes a concern, which comes at a cost. Buying new OEM complete turbo replacements may become the best option to overcome this.

If you want to see more worthwhile gains, it's not going to happen with the tiny OEM turbines. So then you must charter into the full upgrade waters. In order to do the full upgrade (bigger turbines) you'll need to locate and adapt in new complete donor centersections. None you find will work with the OEM lines so then you will have to manufacture new lines or further enhance the new centersection to work with the OEM lines (where possible). The turbine housing will require substantial modifications to adapt to the new centersection, much beyond simply machining it to accept the bigger turbine. Tooling and machine time is considerable throughout the process as the manifolds are welded to the turbine housings.

This is a watered down version but in the end what seems like should be a nice easy cheap project, turns out being a very expensive nightmare if you go the full mile. Simply put turning these things into anything significant will not come cheap nor easy.

[#Tee]

Look into compound turbo setups. Its the new cool thing to do. I can only imagin the torque curve on this.

[Simple5]

Originally Posted by RobBeck

For a compressor only upgrade all you have to do is machine the compressor housings, the centersections (to accept the bigger wheels), buy rebuild kits, clean, reassemble, and rebalance. Although the gains will be less significant and the Engines VE will essentially remain unchanged, you may still find this is for you as it'll be affordable. This is the typical offering as it's simplistic.

A caveat we have with used turbo cores is that the internal wastegates are often very worn, so you really don't want to sink more $$$ into housings that contain excessively worn internal wastegate components. So replacing those components becomes a concern, which comes at a cost. Buying new OEM complete turbo replacements may become the best option to overcome this.

If you want to see more worthwhile gains, it's not going to happen with the tiny OEM turbines. So then you must charter into the full upgrade waters. In order to do the full upgrade (bigger turbines) you'll need to locate and adapt in new complete donor centersections. None you find will work with the OEM lines so then you will have toh manufacture new lines or further enhance the new centersection to work with the OEM lines (where possible). The turbine housing will require substantial modifications to adapt to the new centersection, much beyond simply machining it to accept the bigger turbine. Tooling and machine time is considerable throughout the process as the manifolds are welded to the turbine housings.

This is a watered down version but in the end what seems like should be a nice easy cheap project, turns out being a very expensive nightmare if you go the full mile. Simply put turning these things into anything significant will not come cheap nor easy.

Rob Beck has spoken! Im gonna save up for your turbos then!

[Rob@RBTurbo]

Haha. I'm not trying to discourage you from pursuing anything elsewhere, but rather to illustrate that all "upgrades" are not created equal.

Originally Posted by Simple3

Rob Beck has spoken! Im gonna save up for your turbos then!

[rader1]

Not to get too far off topic, but has anyone experience with the Helix upgraded turbos? Real information is kind of hard to come by, and with tax return season coming it's looking really tempting

[Syndicategt]

Originally Posted by RobBeck

Haha. I'm not trying to discourage you from pursuing anything elsewhere, but rather to illustrate that all "upgrades" are not created equal.

+1,000

[BrianMN]

Originally Posted by rader1

Not to get too far off topic, but has anyone experience with the Helix upgraded turbos? Real information is kind of hard to come by, and with tax return season coming it's looking really tempting

I'd like to get a full disclosure on where the Helix turbos are machined, built and assembled.

I have a sneaking suspicion they are made by Tial...same as the EPL and eBay turbos.

[Skydive]

Originally Posted by BrianMN

I'd like to get a full disclosure on where the Helix turbos are machined, built and assembled.

I have a sneaking suspicion they are made by Tial...same as the EPL and eBay turbos.

Whoa! The EPL Turbos aren't done by TiAL. They're done by a precision machine and balance facility that does some production work together with TiAL for certain products and processes, but TiAL doesn't have much if anything to do with the turbos that Tony is selling at EPL. TiAL doesn't rework used or cores to be offered for sale. Their turbo offerings are TiAL only custom and/or custom Garrett units.

When and if they ever have an N54 or N55 offerings, they won't be in Mitsubishi/MHI housings

-Michael

[BrianMN]

Originally Posted by Skydive

Whoa! The EPL Turbos aren't done by TiAL. They're done by a precision machine and balance facility that does some production work together with TiAL for certain products and processes, but TiAL doesn't have much if anything to do with the turbos that Tony is selling at EPL. TiAL doesn't rework used or cores to be offered for sale. Their turbo offerings are TiAL only custom and/or custom Garrett units.

When and if they ever have an N54 or N55 offerings, they won't be in Mitsubishi/MHI housings

-Michael

According to a high source at Tial, Tial produced the turbos EPL sold, and also produced the ones that are beings old on ebay.

When I say "sold", that means the first turbos JP bought, and maybe a handful after. I don't know who currently makes them, but Tial got a lot of warranty returns from them so they stopped producing them asap.

[tibra1]

Stock turbos do the job nicely..upgrade is big money and potential for big headaches IMO

[Skydive]

Originally Posted by BrianMN

According to a high source at Tial, Tial produced the turbos EPL sold, and also produced the ones that are beings old on ebay.

When I say "sold", that means the first turbos JP bought, and maybe a handful after. I don't know who currently makes them, but Tial got a lot of warranty returns from them so they stopped producing them asap.

Your "high source at TiAL" was incorrect at best.

My business partner and I had a company which sold several TiAL products. (In fact, that company and it's co-founder designed and remain the sole distributor of TiAL's range of products for the B5 Audi S4.) I am no longer involved with the company, however I remain a close friend.

During the time of the EPL N54 turbos, our company was the single source wholesaler of those turbos to EPL. They were built by and purchased directly from a third company with which TiAL partners on some projects. (The N54 product was never a TiAL partnership.) TiAL was not involved in the product, nor were any TiAL components used, or represented as such. Our company processed all of the warranty units for EPL, and coordinated good faith with the manufacturer. (None of this had anything to do with TiAL beyond a completely unrelated business partnership between TiAL and the manufacturer.)

Fact.

-Michael

[Apogee]

I would like to see Billet Turbos....Billet seems to be the freshest thing out on the block making ridiculous top end and promoting quick spool

[TurboBullett@Ambient Thermal Management]

Originally Posted by Skydive

Your "high source at TiAL" was incorrect at best.

My business partner and I had a company which sold several TiAL products. (In fact, that company and it's co-founder designed and remain the sole distributor of TiAL's range of products for the B5 Audi S4.) I am no longer involved with the company, however I remain a close friend.

During the time of the EPL N54 turbos, our company was the single source wholesaler of those turbos to EPL. They were built by and purchased directly from a third company with which TiAL partners on some projects. (The N54 product was never a TiAL partnership.) TiAL was not involved in the product, nor were any TiAL components used, or represented as such. Our company processed all of the warranty units for EPL, and coordinated good faith with the manufacturer. (None of this had anything to do with TiAL beyond a completely unrelated business partnership between TiAL and the manufacturer.)

Fact.

-Michael

I do the r&d for Helix and I don't know how we got lumped into this conversation, we don't have our turbos upgraded by TiAl or any relation to Tial,epl,skydive(ATP turbo?) or ebay( are n54 upgrade turbos even selling on eBay? If so I have never seen them.), nor have we had any warranty issues with our turbo upgrades that I know of! As any tuner would do we will not "Disclose" our in house information but I will say we are in the beginning stages of working on another level with compressor and turbine wheel changes in addition to our current offerings!

[rader1]

Originally Posted by TTurboBullett

I do the r&d for Helix and I don't know how we got lumped into this conversation, we don't have our turbos upgraded by TiAl or any relation to Tial or ebay( are n54 upgrade turbos even selling on eBay? If so I have never seen them.), nor have we had any warranty issues with our turbo upgrades that I know of! As any tuner would do we will not "Disclose" our in house information but I will say we are in the beginning stages of working on another level with compressor and turbine wheel changes in addition to our current offerings!

I know you can't give any details or official dates, but can you give any kind of a timeframe of when a little more info may be available? Im located within a 2 1/2 hour drive from a couple official helix installers and i am SERIOUSLY looking into the currently available Helix upgrade, but if there is a better alternative on the horizon then i'd like to avoid buyers remorse if possible

[TurboBullett@Ambient Thermal Management]

Originally Posted by rader1

I know you can't give any details or official dates, but can you give any kind of a timeframe of when a little more info may be available? Im located within a 2 1/2 hour drive from a couple official helix installers and i am SERIOUSLY looking into the currently available Helix upgrade, but if there is a better alternative on the horizon then i'd like to avoid buyers remorse if possible

The current helix turbos can push 540hp worth of airflow with a good tune running the compressors in their efficiency range. I personally think that using them with a cobb stage 2+ tune will make very good power at 18 psi tapering to 16(the compressors come alive from 18-22 psi)with good air fuels and safe timing, until the stage 3 maps get released! Bang for the buck they are an excellent upgrade as I said we are in the very beginning stages of the next level with no timeframe on release or even if they will be a viable alternative, until we put them on a car and tune them in! I know helix has the originals in stock or coming into stock very soon, so if u want to upgrade now is a great time I will most likely put the current turbos on my car in the next 2 weeks to real life test them in the above scenario and once ATR comes out I don't see why they can't make mid/upper 400's whp on 93 octane at 20-21 psi where they are designed to run best! At this level of power things are more affordable at the next level you would be looking at ALOT more $ potentially in the turbos-clutch-fuel system/meth etc and drag radials will be necessary to even begin to get the power to the ground!

[rader1]

Thank you very much come spring i hope to be having the Helix units installed

[TurboBullett@Ambient Thermal Management]

Originally Posted by rader1

Thank you very much come spring i hope to be having the Helix units installed

Ill have tuned #'s for you before then!

[rader1]

Originally Posted by TTurboBullett

Ill have tuned #'s for you before then!

Awesome, i wish i could've went for the upgraded turbos before the house but ohh well...

[golfrsi]

so far rob beck is what i'm getting "TAX RETURN!"