[herbz]

I honestly believe that BMW made a big mistake with the M3 this time around.

Now that we have all the official stats of the M3 (420hp, < 300lb/ft, 3470lb), its pretty obvious that a modded 335i/135i will absolutely kill an M3 for thousands less while still being able to have the same warranty. I mean, it won't even be close. Let's face it: A modded 335i with 400whp and globs of low end torque will just absolutely RAPE the new M3. Let alone what the lightweight excellent handling 135i will do to it.

The M3 has always been the BMW for the enthusiast market. No other BMW has really touched the M3, even the V10 M5 and M6 can't come close to the M3 CSL around a track. But now, a 135i with $10k into it will blow this new V8 M3 out of the water so hard it won't even be a contest.

Not to mention it will cost thousands upon thousands to improve on the V8 engine, while as little as $5 grand can give you better numbers out of the N54.

I just honestly don't think BMW intended for this to happen, it seems like they are oblivious to the fact that you can get huge power numbers out of a twin turboed engine.

IMO why would anyone buy an M3 now. What is the point besides looks, and the name "M3". The 135i is lighter on its feet, has a better more modable engine, and a more compliant ride. M3 owners are not going to tolerate being beat by a 135i that costs $30 grand less than their overpriced overweight Lexus/RS4 dildo competitor.

Previous 3 series models could not come close to catching an M3, even modded. The 335 and 135 have changed that. I think BMW might have killed the M3 with these cars.

Just my opinion. any thoughts?

[wj4]

While the performance of the 335i and 135i may be close to the M3, it is still not an M...it doesn't have the presence of an M.

The 335i and 135i does a great job of appealing to audience like myself, who can not afford an M3 at the moment.

[herbz]

Originally Posted by wj4

While the performance of the 335i and 135i may be close to the M3, it is still not an M...it doesn't have the presence of an M.

The 335i and 135i does a great job of appealing to audience like myself, who can not afford an M3 at the moment.

exactly. "it's still an M". that's basically the only reason to buy an M3 now. looks and as a status symbol.

isn't the M3 supposed to be the ultimate enthusiast BMW? not with the 135i and 335i available for thousands less.

[ward]

of course they killed it, the 335 is the best car ever and the 135 will be almost as good but it's ugly and it's not as classy as the 335

you can't proceede an M3

I'd rather take the money I save and spend it on spoilers and LED lights, maybe some 22" wheels

[truong321]

Like some say it is to say that "I have an M" not something like "I own a one series" or My one can beat your M. Looks man its about image! to some and performance to others.

[achien]

I am not sure how BMW can sell the '08 M3s with the spec. numbers they currently have, but I won't be surprise if they put a TT on the M3s in '09 models.

[BayerischeMW]

M's are NA engines, unless they change that policy, there will be no turbo for the M3.

but as it stands, stock M3 will be faster than a 335i on a track because of its setup which is more track oriented than the comfortable 335i's suspension. to get closer to the M, one will need to upgrade the suspension. the brakes on the two cars are not that far from each other.

as the saying goes, an M will always be an M, but there is no doubt that BMW has reduced the gap between the top model non-M and the M model. the difference between the E46 330 and the E46 M3 was monstrous compared to the difference between the E92 335i and the E92 M3.

[Bimmerista]

According to the OPs logic, everyone should have bought STIs and forgotten BMW altogether 5 years ago.

I don't think that the M3 is in the same league as the 335. Once you start by saying that you are going to compare modified cars to the M3 any comparison is meaningless since you can modify any number of cars to accelerate faster etc.

If the point is that BMW is canibalising its own sales of with the 335 and 135, it clearly is not, given that the cars' performances are not up to M3 levels, unless you start modding them.

Again, according to this logic, no one should buy Audi S4 or RS4s 'cause you can get the 2.0 and chip it into the stratosphere and the then drop it, shake, bake it and make into a spaceship.

Just my opinion of course,

[just4kickz]

Originally Posted by herbz

I honestly believe that BMW made a big mistake with the M3 this time around.

Now that we have all the official stats of the M3 (420hp, < 300lb/ft, 3470lb), its pretty obvious that a modded 335i/135i will absolutely kill an M3 for thousands less while still being able to have the same warranty. I mean, it won't even be close. Let's face it: A modded 335i with 400whp and globs of low end torque will just absolutely RAPE the new M3. Let alone what the lightweight excellent handling 135i will do to it.

The M3 has always been the BMW for the enthusiast market. No other BMW has really touched the M3, even the V10 M5 and M6 can't come close to the M3 CSL around a track. But now, a 135i with $10k into it will blow this new V8 M3 out of the water so hard it won't even be a contest.

Not to mention it will cost thousands upon thousands to improve on the V8 engine, while as little as $5 grand can give you better numbers out of the N54.

I just honestly don't think BMW intended for this to happen, it seems like they are oblivious to the fact that you can get huge power numbers out of a twin turboed engine.

IMO why would anyone buy an M3 now. What is the point besides looks, and the name "M3". The 135i is lighter on its feet, has a better more modable engine, and a more compliant ride. M3 owners are not going to tolerate being beat by a 135i that costs $30 grand less than their overpriced overweight Lexus/RS4 dildo competitor.

Previous 3 series models could not come close to catching an M3, even modded. The 335 and 135 have changed that. I think BMW might have killed the M3 with these cars.

Just my opinion. any thoughts?

well i'd say 1 in 10 bmw buyers will actually consider modifying their ride.... of course there isn't a statistic... but i mean look at the road... how many stock cars do you see versus the modified?

if your talking about a moder's POV... then yeah i guess the difference in cost between the e92 335i and M3 could make the e92 faster...

[herbz]

Originally Posted by BayerischeMW

as the saying goes, an M will always be an M, but there is no doubt that BMW has reduced the gap between the top model non-M and the M model. the difference between the E46 330 and the E46 M3 was monstrous compared to the difference between the E92 335i and the E92 M3.

completely agree

According to the OPs logic, everyone should have bought STIs and forgotten BMW altogether 5 years ago.

I don't think that the M3 is in the same league as the 335. Once you start by saying that you are going to compare modified cars to the M3 any comparison is meaningless since you can modify any number of cars to accelerate faster etc.

If the point is that BMW is canibalising its own sales of with the 335 and 135, it clearly is not, given that the cars' performances are not up to M3 levels, unless you start modding them.

well, how come the 335i is not in the same league as the M3? i really don't get why. first off, it's going to be impossible to modify the e92 M3's engine at all. hell, the e46 M3 costs upward of $20k to get any real gains out of it. the high strung NA engines are basically impossible to modify since they are maxed out from the factory.

the 330 was pretty much impossible to modify as well, it would cost upward of $10 grand to get to e46 M3 numbers. via supercharging.

but now, the 335i stock is as fast as an e46 m3, and a paltry $5 grand will make the 335i significantly faster than an e92 m3.

combine that with the fact that you can mod the 335i and still keep your warranty, then what performance enthusiast would by the M3 for its performance?

again, i still believe people bought the M3 for its performance. BMW has isolated all those buyers, and now the only people left who are going to buy the M3 is people who are scared of turbo's, badge whores, and ppl who prioritize looks over performance.

well i'd say 1 in 10 bmw buyers will actually consider modifying their ride.... of course there isn't a statistic... but i mean look at the road... how many stock cars do you see versus the modified?

if your talking about a moder's POV... then yeah i guess the difference in cost between the e92 335i and M3 could make the e92 faster...

true... good point

[William]

sadly in alot of car review they say you can kill a pigeon and stick a BMW badge on it and people will still buy.
since bm has a such a name on their company they can get away with things

[Bimmerista]

Originally Posted by herbz

completely agree



well, how come the 335i is not in the same league as the M3? i really don't get why. first off, it's going to be impossible to modify the e92 M3's engine at all. hell, the e46 M3 costs upward of $20k to get any real gains out of it. the high strung NA engines are basically impossible to modify since they are maxed out from the factory.

the 330 was pretty much impossible to modify as well, it would cost upward of $10 grand to get to e46 M3 numbers. via supercharging.

but now, the 335i stock is as fast as an e46 m3, and a paltry $5 grand will make the 335i significantly faster than an e92 m3.

combine that with the fact that you can mod the 335i and still keep your warranty, then what performance enthusiast would by the M3 for its performance?

again, i still believe people bought the M3 for its performance. BMW has isolated all those buyers, and now the only people left who are going to buy the M3 is people who are scared of turbo's, badge whores, and ppl who prioritize looks over performance.

Well, my very point is that one has to look at both cars as BMW build them, not as someone might decide to modify them. And stock, the 335 is simply not in the same class as the new M3. Now even if we account for only the chip ecu reprogramming of the 335 (procede), there is more than straight-line acceleration to an all-around sport coupe. And I doubt that the M3, with its gearing, LSD, tighter suspension, throtle imput sensitivity, tires, etc. will be match for the modded 335 even with the straight line 0-60 advantage. As well, given that the turbo boost maxes out at 5000rpms, while the V8 revs to 8000rpms, the V8 should have the edge on the track.

[berm3]

I think BMW should discontinue all the models, except 335i and 135 You can modify Geo Metro and you can beat Ferrari Enzo in the 1/4 mile.

[ZBMW]

After a track weekend and a two week, 3000 mile trip I can say the 335i is one hell of a fine BMW, maybe the best 3 ever. It raises the level of the 3 series to a new high and leaves lots of room for the 135 to attract new customers. It isn't an M3, although with the aforementioned 5 large it could come very close. What is significant is that it raises the levels of performance and luxury without giving up its reputation as the ultimate driving machine. I think Munich has made more than a few marketing miscues but this car is a marketing bullseye and time will confirm it.

[c0nstant]

i dont think thats a completely fair comparison.
out of the box the m3 is going to run all over the 335i, thats a given
but comparing a modded 335i to the new m3 seems kinda unfair doesnt it?
thats like saying one kid gets 4 A's in school and another gets 3 A's and a B
but you get the second kid a tutor, so he does better
haha idk bad example

[mesier1111]

Originally Posted by herbz

exactly. "it's still an M". that's basically the only reason to buy an M3 now. looks and as a status symbol.

isn't the M3 supposed to be the ultimate enthusiast BMW? not with the 135i and 335i available for thousands less.

Exactly what I was thinking. The M3 is why I fell in love with BMW, and the E46 M3 turned that love into an obsession. But The "M" line always set the standard for performance, it was more than just an M. You never heard people saying, "Yeah, but its an M". They never had to, it just outhandled and outperformed almost everything. Same way the 7-series has always been the standard for luxury for BMW. To suddenly make the 3 or 5 series more luxurious than the 7 just wouldn't make any sense.

BMW let its drive to sell as many cars as possible and appeal to the masses destroy its soul, just as that drive destroyed MB's soul when it merged with Chrysler. BMW is just gonna be another Volvo, MB, or dare I say Ford

[mesier1111]

Originally Posted by truong321

Like some say it is to say that "I have an M" not something like "I own a one series" or My one can beat your M. Looks man its about image! to some and performance to others.

That is the OP's point, the M line was never about showing your buddies you got the biggest wallet/dick on the block. Now, it is.

[mesier1111]

Originally Posted by BayerischeMW

M's are NA engines, unless they change that policy, there will be no turbo for the M3.

but as it stands, stock M3 will be faster than a 335i on a track because of its setup which is more track oriented than the comfortable 335i's suspension. to get closer to the M, one will need to upgrade the suspension. the brakes on the two cars are not that far from each other.

as the saying goes, an M will always be an M, but there is no doubt that BMW has reduced the gap between the top model non-M and the M model. the difference between the E46 330 and the E46 M3 was monstrous compared to the difference between the E92 335i and the E92 M3.

Until I see official track times I am not sure that the gap is even that big on the track, and from the sounds of the articles, it sounds like the brakes are almost worse than the 335i coupe. If there is a second gap between the twon on the track and none on 0-60 & 1/4 with procede, then where is the 20K mark-up going? Exactly, no point in spending the money.

[mesier1111]

Originally Posted by Bimmerista

According to the OPs logic, everyone should have bought STIs and forgotten BMW altogether 5 years ago.

I don't think that the M3 is in the same league as the 335. Once you start by saying that you are going to compare modified cars to the M3 any comparison is meaningless since you can modify any number of cars to accelerate faster etc.

If the point is that BMW is canibalising its own sales of with the 335 and 135, it clearly is not, given that the cars' performances are not up to M3 levels, unless you start modding them.

Again, according to this logic, no one should buy Audi S4 or RS4s 'cause you can get the 2.0 and chip it into the stratosphere and the then drop it, shake, bake it and make into a spaceship.

Just my opinion of course,

I would agree with you if the mod didn't take $1300 and 10 minutes to install. Before now, it would take alot more than $1300 and 10 minutes of your time to mod a car enough to have it SMOKE an M3.

[phazedkid]

i'm not passing judgments on whether bmw "killed" the M3 with 335/135 until i see some solid numbers from M3. BUT my guess would be that out of the box, M3 will simply be untouchable. and even with mods, it'll hold its ground against mildly modded X35s. like someone said, there's more to performance/tracking than simply overwhelming power.

and even though i (will) have 335i, i ernestly hope that there's more to M3 than the numbers imply.

[John]

Originally Posted by ward

of course they killed it, the 335 is the best car ever and the 135 will be almost as good but it's ugly and it's not as classy as the 335

you can't proceede an M3

I'd rather take the money I save and spend it on spoilers and LED lights, maybe some 22" wheels

always sarcastic ward :/

[FirstClass]

Originally Posted by herbz

exactly. "it's still an M". that's basically the only reason to buy an M3 now. looks and as a status symbol.

No, it's still a kickass driving machine. These OMG x35i will pwn M3 are like saying "OMG my STI will rapezorz ur Ferrari" Even if it is faster, which it usually isn't, it's still not even nearly as good of a car.