[dado337]

Ok so I'm looking into buying my second 335 and want to make it a little monster... I've spent an hour searching Vishnu's single turbo and then ran into this RB turbo upgrade and it seems like everyone likes them. What in the world are these and where do I even buy them? I CAN"T FINE ANYTHING IM GOING CRAZY! lol

[cloud_connected]

Originally Posted by dado337

Ok so I'm looking into buying my second 335 and want to make it a little monster... I've spent an hour searching Vishnu's single turbo and then ran into this RB turbo upgrade and it seems like everyone likes them. What in the world are these and where do I even buy them? I CAN"T FINE ANYTHING IM GOING CRAZY! lol

Unfortunately, Rob Beck is not a vendor here.

https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&...B+turbos&btnK=

Try checking out some google search results

[Alpina_B3_Lux]

On N54tech.com you will also find a very long thread with all the info that you will need. But here's the address of his website: http://www.rbturbo.com/index.html

Alpina_B3_Lux

[OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by dado337

Ok so I'm looking into buying my second 335 and want to make it a little monster... I've spent an hour searching Vishnu's single turbo and then ran into this RB turbo upgrade and it seems like everyone likes them. What in the world are these and where do I even buy them? I CAN"T FINE ANYTHING IM GOING CRAZY! lol

When choosing a turbo upgrade option, figure out what kind of max power you want to make and how you want to make it. RBs can support a max of 500-520whp with race gas and meth. Our single turbo will support 650whp with pump and meth with room to grow. Some will be happy with less while some with want more. Just be careful going with something that will leave you wanting more since re-installing a different turbo kit, later on, is quite time/$ consuming.

[themyst]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

When choosing a turbo upgrade option, figure out what kind of max power you want to make and how you want to make it. RBs can support a max of 500-520whp with race gas and meth. Our single turbo will support 650whp with pump and meth with room to grow. Some will be happy with less while some with want more. Just be careful going with something that will leave you wanting more since re-installing a different turbo kit, later on, is quite time/$ consuming.

Having done turbo swaps on this car myself, it's a six hour job for any mechanic who has done it before. It's not terrible swapping them out.

With that said, RBs have very good resale value, visually look stock and are warrantied, should the OP change their mind about the decision later on.

[OpenFlash]

6hr turbo swap?

[themyst]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

6hr turbo swap?

Yep, subframe drop with the proper tools, motor hoist and a lift takes 45 minutes.

Once that's done remove downpipes FMIC drain oil, coolant, swap turbos, go backwards, fill oil, add 50/50 coolant and go through priming, idle, done.

Xi needs a lot more things removed, this is for RWD only.

[eric@helix]

Originally Posted by themyst

Having done turbo swaps on this car myself, it's a six hour job for any mechanic who has done it before. It's not terrible swapping them out.

With that said, RBs have very good resale value, visually look stock and are warrantied, should the OP change their mind about the decision later on.

Six hours is a little misleading for forum purposes. I have done a dozen or so swaps, and have reduced the time from my first swap, when the car tied up a lift for the better part of a week. It may be that an experienced mechanic who has done the swap a number of times can remove and replace stock (and modified stock) turbos in 6 hours, but it's going to take the first-timer a lot more time. You can be rest assured that a shop is going to charge well more than 6 hours of labor for that work. I know we do.

The point is: it's a big decision, make the right one.

[themyst]

Originally Posted by eric@helix

Six hours is a little misleading for forum purposes. I have done a dozen or so swaps, and have reduced the time from my first swap, when the car tied up a lift for the better part of a week. It may be that an experienced mechanic who has done the swap a number of times can remove and replace stock (and modified stock) turbos in 6 hours, but it's going to take the first-timer a lot more time. You can be rest assured that a shop is going to charge well more than 6 hours of labor for that work. I know we do.

The point is: it's a big decision, make the right one.

Book hours would be 10-12, depending on how generous.

I was merely stating what time I could do the swap in. Not trying to start an argument here.

[OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by eric@helix

The point is: it's a big decision, make the right one.

+1

[scottp999]

Originally Posted by themyst

Book hours would be 10-12, depending on how generous.

I heard the BMW book hours (which are crazy) are: The book time is just under 16 hours (15.7)

I think paying for 10 hours of labor on it at a decent rate is reasonable.

dado337 -

Shiv is right depends on your goals. I've been very happy with the performance of RB's on 93octane and meth on a car I drive a couple times a week on the street (around 480whp). It's also nice to know if I play nice I can stay stock on the clutch and axles as well.

I'm all for those people that want to push the limits with a big single, just not a goal for me.

[Chefcg1]

not to mention a big price differance! RB's under 5k installed, big single 10K+ installed.

[themyst]

Originally Posted by scottp999

I heard the BMW book hours (which are crazy) are: The book time is just under 16 hours (15.7)

I think paying for 10 hours of labor on it at a decent rate is reasonable.

dado337 -

Shiv is right depends on your goals. I've been very happy with the performance of RB's on 93octane and meth on a car I drive a couple times a week on the street (around 480whp). It's also nice to know if I play nice I can stay stock on the clutch and axles as well.

I'm all for those people that want to push the limits with a big single, just not a goal for me.

125-126mph traps full weight with virtually no change in driving characteristics in a visually stock solution is good enough for me.

[zeel]

Originally Posted by scottp999

I heard the BMW book hours (which are crazy) are: The book time is just under 16 hours (15.7)

I think paying for 10 hours of labor on it at a decent rate is reasonable.

dado337 -

Shiv is right depends on your goals. I've been very happy with the performance of RB's on 93octane and meth on a car I drive a couple times a week on the street (around 480whp). It's also nice to know if I play nice I can stay stock on the clutch and axles as well.

I'm all for those people that want to push the limits with a big single, just not a goal for me.

Have you hit up MIR or any of the local strips yet? I'd like to see what you are trapping as I think I'd do similar mods in the future.

[scottp999]

Originally Posted by zeel

Have you hit up MIR or any of the local strips yet? I'd like to see what you are trapping as I think I'd do similar mods in the future.

I haven't yet. There is a regular group of guys that do a private rental of MIR a couple times a year. I need to go see when the next one is. I wouldn't estimate anything off my times though as it would be my first drag strip experience.

[zeel]

Yea I've been to like 4 of them so far. Would love to see an RB car in action there. You'll have a blast.

[Zebra99]

Goal or no goal, on the track you're looking at a lot more $$$ to have the set-up run high 10's as Shiv did. At least with RB's you can have a relatively stock set-up (tires, suspension, axels, etc) and still run low 11's.

I wouldn't pay the $7k+ just to run 1/2s faster on a track. That being said, on the street is a different story and I'm sure the difference would be more noticeable.

All depends on what you are looking for and how deep your wallet is!

[boostaholic786]

Honestly, I have the RB's and couldnt be happier with them due to there "stock like appearance" and the actual performance gains you get from them. Overall, the power delivery curve is almost identical to the stockers but ALOT more pull and horsepower ALL throughout the powerband. With an E85 blend with 93, the car runs like a bat out of hell IMPO. Once shiv came out with the single turbo set up, I followed it very closely because, well, its the first one that actually made it to production. Mad props to Shiv and Vishnu for making that kind of power on a mostly stock motor with an upgraded clutch lol. Kinda nuts if you think about it and amazing as well!!!
For me though, I actually drive my car everyday and enjoy the hell out of it without having to worry about possibly breaking stuff!! I have had probably every different car you can imagine from a 08 Z06 (too harsh for everyday driving) a E92 M3 (sold a week after I lost to my friends E90 335i with a tune and DCI, probably about 3 or 4 cars with his wife and his 6 year old son in the back) lol and a dozen more. For some reason I LOVE this E92 with the RB's and FBO+30% E85/93 mix. It makes over 440whp and 491 torque. Honestly thats plenty for me and to have a worry free head knowing that im not pushing anything past its limitations. I have launched the car from a stop a handful of times, meaning I can count everytime I have launched from a stop lol. I usually do 3rd gear rolls most of the time so I dont put as much stress on the tranny..
All in all, shivs single turbo setup is incredible by all means and time will tell how reliable it will be... With my setup with the RB's for instance, I dont really have anything to worry about because they have been out for a long time with really NO issues that I know of. For me to feel comfortable doing even the small single setup that vishnu sells, I would want upgraded transmission, upgraded input shafts, upgraded fuel system and whatever else might break because of so much power that setup can produce which costs>12k-15k with everything from scratch and including labor. Its amazing, if someone has the time and money to have the car run 100% all the time, then his set up is right for you. If you just want to spend less than 5k-6k, and have a streetable, reliable, daily driving car with 500hp at your foot, I would do the RB's.
just my 2cents and hope this helps!

[OpenFlash]

I'm not sure where the single turbo setup isnt "proven" with respect to reliability. We have put our single turbo test cars to far more rigorous testing than we have ever put any hybrids turbo upgrade up to. As for engine stress, a single turbo will induce far lower thermal and backpressure loads at any give power level. Which means a single turbo making 500whp will be far less stressful to an engine running a set of hybrid twins at 500whp. The clutch requirements will also be lower with the single turbo because it is able to make less peak torque since it will instead hold it to redline.

It seems that everyone who is recommending the RB turbos over the single haven't driven a single that makes the same or more power. At the end of the day, the RBs provide a nice ~70-80whp over stock twins. The single provides 200-240whp over stock twins with still room to grow. Of course, it will cost extra. But that is expected since you are getting an entire turbo system wirh tubular manifold as opposed to a core exchanged turbo. Neither solution is better than the other since the ideal turbo will vary from person to person. But I will argue that 80% of people who actually drive a ceramic BB single turbo, and feel/hear it can do in their driving environment, will never go back to any Mitsubishi twins, stock or otherwise. Because going from RBs to a single certainly feels more dramatic going from stock to RBs.

[themyst]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

I'm not sure where the single turbo setup isnt "proven" with respect to reliability. We have put our single turbo test cars to far more rigorous testing than we have ever put any hybrids turbo upgrade up to. As for engine stress, a single turbo will induce far lower thermal and backpressure loads at any give power level. Which means a single turbo making 500whp will be far less stressful to an engine running a set of hybrid twins at 500whp. The clutch requirements will also be lower with the single turbo because it is able to make less peak torque since it will instead hold it to redline.

It seems that everyone who is recommending the RB turbos over the single haven't driven a single that makes the same or more power. At the end of the day, the RBs provide a nice ~70-80whp over stock twins. The single provides 200-240whp over stock twins with still room to grow. Of course, it will cost extra. But that is expected since you are getting an entire turbo system wirh tubular manifold as opposed to a core exchanged turbo. Neither solution is better than the other since the ideal turbo will vary from person to person. But I will argue that 80% of people who actually drive a ceramic BB single turbo, and feel/hear it can do in their driving environment, will never go back to any Mitsubishi twins, stock or otherwise. Because going from RBs to a single certainly feels more dramatic going from stock to RBs.

Peak HP yes, average power throughout the powerband, ESPECIALLY your 6AT tuning? Not really.

And there is also this issue of price. 10k for a properly optioned out single turbo kit vs 3k for a set of RB turbos. There's a price and market for both products and they both do their job well.

I have always said, even with all the bashing from others, the single turbo will mop an RB turbo car if traction isn't an issue. I would love to get a ride in a single turbo car or even be open to the idea of getting raped by one on the highway. Know any locals to NYC that has your single turbo kit?

[OpenFlash]

The mistake people make is thinking that average whp is important. It's not. What is important is average HP over the useable HP range. Not having big torque at 2000rpm isn't relevant to any forum of acceleration outside of a tractor pull. What is useful is averaging torque from typical cruise RPM to redline. In fact, that would be generous since most people expect to downshift for maximum acceleration. Also, having peak HP at, or close to, max RPM helps performance as you fully benefit for gearing multiplier effects since you can often be in a lower gear than someone who needs to short shift to stay in the power band.

[benzy89]

Originally Posted by themyst

And there is also this issue of price. 10k for a properly optioned out single turbo kit vs 3k for a set of RB turbos. There's a price and market for both products and they both do their job well.

Like everything in life, it comes down to dollar & cents and if the cost can be justified. I'm very happy with my FBO N54 (no meth), and since it's my DD I can't imagine sinking another $10k into it for the "sake of speed" (if my turbos went, only "excuse" I'd have to go with RBs instead of staying with stock snails)


NOW, if it was my weekend toy we'd be having a different conversation (but I'd be more interested in a S/C E9x M3 for a weekend toy)