Can't trust Jack

SwissArmy · 08-13-2013, 07:07 PM

Add jack stands to the list of things we cannot trust.

Web staff, CP24.com
Published Tuesday, August 13, 2013 5:25PM EDT
Last Updated Tuesday, August 13, 2013 5:26PM EDT
Aug. 15, 2013

Man killed while working on car

A 37-year-old man was killed Tuesday afternoon when a vehicle he was working on fell on him.

Police say the car was lifted on a jack stand but that the stand collapsed, sending the car crashing onto the man.

Police were called to the man’s home on McEastern Path, in Milton, just after noon.

The victim’s name has not been released at the request of the family

http://www.cp24.com/news/police-blot...-car-1.1409509

MIAblu1 · 08-13-2013, 08:18 PM

0.o damn... And I do this all the time with the same fear that it's fall on me.

Nate4641 · 08-13-2013, 08:38 PM

I have a feeling something else happened. Maybe the vehicle rolled back or the jack stands could have not been strong enough for the vehicle. Race ramps may be a good alternative for stuff that doesn't require the wheels coming off.

secretsquirrel · 08-13-2013, 08:45 PM

Its hard to find a decent jack for under 200.00 these days. Try reading the reviews of jacks on Amazon. Many (if not most) of the jacks are plagued with hydraulic issues.

SwissArmy · 08-13-2013, 08:57 PM

Now I'm scared to use my jack stands...time to get some ramps...or install a lift in the garage

Suprgnat · 08-13-2013, 09:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by djoutcry

Now I'm scared to use my jack stands...time to get some ramps...or install a lift in the garage

Assuming a shear strength that is 75% of the ultimate tensile strength, and also assuming it being A36 steel (the most common grade around) at its lowest UST, we have 58 kPSI * .75 = 48.5 kPSI in shear. With a safety factor of 4 and a 3400 pound car that equals a load of 13600 pounds. 13.6/48.5 equals a .2804 in^2 pin to support the entire car with a 4X safety factor. That equates to a single pin with a R.2988*2=Ø.5976 to support the vehicle (with a 4X safety factor!!!.

I think there's more to this story than meets the eye.

I wouldn't be any more afraid of using jack stands than I would be a lift (which use pins as a safety mechanism)

Suprgnat · 08-13-2013, 09:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by secretsquirrel

Its hard to find a decent jack for under 200.00 these days. Try reading the reviews of jacks on Amazon. Many (if not most) of the jacks are plagued with hydraulic issues.

A jack is not a jack stand. ALWAYS use a jack stand.

SwissArmy · 08-13-2013, 11:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Suprgnat

A jack is not a jack stand. ALWAYS use a jack stand.

Yep. But it's still hard to trust jack stands...the guy died using a jack stand.

Hopefully the entire car wasn't being supported by 1 stand...

bga23 · 08-13-2013, 11:31 PM

Eesh, not how I want to go out.

Suprgnat · 08-13-2013, 11:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by djoutcry

Yep. But it's still hard to trust jack stands...the guy died using a jack stand.

Hopefully the entire car wasn't being supported by 1 stand...

One stand would have supported the car without any issue. I'm sure negligent use of the equipment is the more likely cause, or, if the equipment was defective, a manufacturing defect to which all products are susceptible. Lifts, ramps, jacks, jack stands, cranes, etc, etc.

Kong Sheng Han · 08-14-2013, 01:17 AM

This is something I fear and the reason why I won't be DIY things that require lifting the car up.

sparkyblue · 08-14-2013, 01:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by secretsquirrel

Its hard to find a decent jack for under 200.00 these days. Try reading the reviews of jacks on Amazon. Many (if not most) of the jacks are plagued with hydraulic issues.

Not true, you can pickup a very well made Arcan 3.5ton low-profile jack from Costco for $99.

Read the reviews for youself online, do quick google search of the terms: costco jack, costco jack arcan.

The benefit from buying from costco as well, is if for say the jack every leaks you could roll it back into the store without its box or anything and get a full refund. Even years after its been purchased, this is possible with Costco's amazing purchase protection.

///M_Power · 08-14-2013, 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sparkyblue

Not true, you can pickup a very well made Arcan 3.5ton low-profile jack from Costco for $99.

Read the reviews for youself online, do quick google search of the terms: costco jack, costco jack arcan.

The benefit from buying from costco as well, is if for say the jack every leaks you could roll it back into the store without its box or anything and get a full refund. Even years after its been purchased, this is possible with Costco's amazing purchase protection.

shibby!!!

dkexige · 08-14-2013, 08:08 PM

If its sitting on a jack, have a jackstand sitting under as well. If its sitting on a jack stand, have a block of wood sitting under as well.

pootytang · 08-14-2013, 08:38 PM

Ugh...probably time to get a second set for some redundancy. As someone new to this, I'm definitely scared about doing something wrong. A lift will be in order once I buy my first house.

SwissArmy · 08-14-2013, 09:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drob23

Ugh...probably time to get a second set for some redundancy. As someone new to this, I'm definitely scared about doing something wrong. A lift will be in order once I buy my first house.

Yeah I'm definitely looking to get a lift.

WreckerX5d · 08-15-2013, 01:15 AM

I've used my bent spare rim to support my car when I had no jack stands available. I will trust a jack stand or something very similar than just a jack lift. I've had the awesome experience of a 65,000lb truck fall 1" from my face in Afghanistan while I was under it with a bottle jack (yes they make them that big).

Something negligent or manufactures defect had to have happened. I don't see how something as simple as a jack stand just arbitrarily went wrong.

kthankzbye · 08-15-2013, 03:16 AM

I think the article is mistaken a jack with a jack stand. A jack stand can't fall. He probably used a jack and went under it. I've attached a pic of a jack stand and I don't see how it can fail.

Meeni · 08-15-2013, 07:30 AM

Well, maybe the stand was poor quality and failed. Maybe it was not properly installed and tilted. Maybe the car was not level and jumped out of the jack. Maybe the locking handle was not fully at rest and the top stand collapsed. Maybe it was installed under a non-structural part of the car and the car itself bent out of the stand. No details, hard to know.

Bottom line, this happens very rarely, and outside of operator error it's even more rare. Unlike hydraulic failure of jacks which are very common and to be expected, this is a freak event.

Careful with some brands of ramps. They are known to collapse too, quite often, at that. Do not trust cinder blocks or wood stacks either.

Chihuahua · 08-15-2013, 08:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by djoutcry

Now I'm scared to use my jack stands...time to get some ramps...or install a lift in the garage

im getting ready to make some ramps out of 2X10 boards. i dont trust stands or commercially available ramps either.

SwissArmy · 08-15-2013, 09:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kyle B

im getting ready to make some ramps out of 2X10 boards. i dont trust stands or commercially available ramps either.

Post pics when done!

pootytang · 08-15-2013, 10:04 AM

Yea, agreed with above, it's not clear exactly what type of jack the article was referring to. Could have been a hydraulic jack, or worse, the one that comes with the spare tire kit in the car. Seems pretty improbable it was the jack stand as pictured above, the liability there would just be insane if that's in fact what happened.

08-13-2013, 07:07 PM	#1
SwissArmy Why so serious? 150 Rep 743 Posts Drives: BMW Z4; BMW X5; BMW 733 Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Toronto iTrader: (1)	Can't trust Jack - Man killed while working on car Add jack stands to the list of things we cannot trust. Web staff, CP24.com Published Tuesday, August 13, 2013 5:25PM EDT Last Updated Tuesday, August 13, 2013 5:26PM EDT Aug. 15, 2013 Man killed while working on car A 37-year-old man was killed Tuesday afternoon when a vehicle he was working on fell on him. Police say the car was lifted on a jack stand but that the stand collapsed, sending the car crashing onto the man. Police were called to the man’s home on McEastern Path, in Milton, just after noon. The victim’s name has not been released at the request of the family http://www.cp24.com/news/police-blot...-car-1.1409509
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08-13-2013, 08:18 PM	#2
MIAblu1 Second Lieutenant 23 Rep 201 Posts Drives: 08 Monaco Blue 135i Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Florida iTrader: (0)	0.o damn... And I do this all the time with the same fear that it's fall on me.
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08-13-2013, 08:38 PM	#3
Nate4641 Major 160 Rep 1,134 Posts Drives: '07 M Roadster Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Warner Robins, GA iTrader: (0) Garage List 2007 BMW Z4 M Roadster [0.00]	I have a feeling something else happened. Maybe the vehicle rolled back or the jack stands could have not been strong enough for the vehicle. Race ramps may be a good alternative for stuff that doesn't require the wheels coming off. __________________ My build/adventure thread
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08-13-2013, 08:45 PM	#4
secretsquirrel Colonel 202 Rep 2,347 Posts Drives: f80 Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Far North Dallas iTrader: (2)	Its hard to find a decent jack for under 200.00 these days. Try reading the reviews of jacks on Amazon. Many (if not most) of the jacks are plagued with hydraulic issues.
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08-13-2013, 08:57 PM	#5
SwissArmy Why so serious? 150 Rep 743 Posts Drives: BMW Z4; BMW X5; BMW 733 Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Toronto iTrader: (1)	Now I'm scared to use my jack stands...time to get some ramps...or install a lift in the garage
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08-13-2013, 11:31 PM	#9
bga23 Dirty old man 67 Rep 493 Posts Drives: 2021 718 Cayman GTS 4.0 Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Nashville, TN iTrader: (0)	Eesh, not how I want to go out.
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08-14-2013, 01:17 AM	#11
Kong Sheng Han Banned 309 Rep 1,140 Posts Drives: Something something racecar Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Austin, Texas iTrader: (2) Garage List 2011 BMW 328i [0.00] 2001 BMW M3 [0.00]	This is something I fear and the reason why I won't be DIY things that require lifting the car up.
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08-14-2013, 08:08 PM	#14
dkexige Lieutenant 65 Rep 531 Posts Drives: 982 4RS, 8J TTRS Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Cambridge, MA iTrader: (4)	If its sitting on a jack, have a jackstand sitting under as well. If its sitting on a jack stand, have a block of wood sitting under as well.
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08-14-2013, 08:38 PM	#15
pootytang Lieutenant Colonel 50 Rep 1,730 Posts Drives: invalid Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: moon iTrader: (1)	Ugh...probably time to get a second set for some redundancy. As someone new to this, I'm definitely scared about doing something wrong. A lift will be in order once I buy my first house.
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08-15-2013, 01:15 AM	#17
WreckerX5d Warrant Officer 378 Rep 1,340 Posts Drives: Deezul Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Long Island, NY iTrader: (4)	I've used my bent spare rim to support my car when I had no jack stands available. I will trust a jack stand or something very similar than just a jack lift. I've had the awesome experience of a 65,000lb truck fall 1" from my face in Afghanistan while I was under it with a bottle jack (yes they make them that big). Something negligent or manufactures defect had to have happened. I don't see how something as simple as a jack stand just arbitrarily went wrong. __________________ Deleted, ATM I/C and tuned by B.R.R.
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08-15-2013, 03:16 AM	#18
kthankzbye Lieutenant 94 Rep 459 Posts Drives: 2011 F10 550i, 2020 G05 40i Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Brooklyn, NYC iTrader: (1)	I think the article is mistaken a jack with a jack stand. A jack stand can't fall. He probably used a jack and went under it. I've attached a pic of a jack stand and I don't see how it can fail. Attached Images
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08-15-2013, 07:30 AM	#19
Meeni Gateropode 332 Rep 2,846 Posts Drives: BMW 330i 06 Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: TN iTrader: (0)	Well, maybe the stand was poor quality and failed. Maybe it was not properly installed and tilted. Maybe the car was not level and jumped out of the jack. Maybe the locking handle was not fully at rest and the top stand collapsed. Maybe it was installed under a non-structural part of the car and the car itself bent out of the stand. No details, hard to know. Bottom line, this happens very rarely, and outside of operator error it's even more rare. Unlike hydraulic failure of jacks which are very common and to be expected, this is a freak event. Careful with some brands of ramps. They are known to collapse too, quite often, at that. Do not trust cinder blocks or wood stacks either.
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08-15-2013, 10:04 AM	#22
pootytang Lieutenant Colonel 50 Rep 1,730 Posts Drives: invalid Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: moon iTrader: (1)	Yea, agreed with above, it's not clear exactly what type of jack the article was referring to. Could have been a hydraulic jack, or worse, the one that comes with the spare tire kit in the car. Seems pretty improbable it was the jack stand as pictured above, the liability there would just be insane if that's in fact what happened.
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