[SteveMD]

I am selling a vehicle and have it on various sites.

Back in September, a buyer contacted me and after several conversations, he indicated that he would like to send me a deposit via Paypal. I sent him a Paypal invoice and he paid $500 into my Paypal account. The invoice stated that the buyer must complete the sale within 30 days but (dumb) did not say 'non-refundable'.

After two weeks of getting his financing in place, he backed out for financial reasons.

Today I received a Paypal dispute for the $500 deposit. Reason given was 'Didn't receive goods'.

Apparently, this is a credit card dispute since he used a credit card to fund my Paypal account. In other words, he initiated the refund through his credit/debit card issuer.

I'm pissed and from what I read, I'm probably screwed as Paypal will side with the buyer.

I had the vehicle off the market for these three weeks.

Do I have any chance of keeping the deposit?

Thanks

[Trout2]

Paypal is not a seller's friend. I've seen several people with businesses get screwed.

[dreamingat30fps]

We have an online e-commerce business. If we get a Paypal dispute we pretty much consider that money gone. Might be different for ebay transactions dunno.

[JYohay]

I and this same thing happen.
The second I told Paypal it was a deposit they said the dispute is canceled.
I got to keep the money.
Paypal is for selling goods and services, since a deposit is not covered, it was not nessasary for there to be "received goods"

[SteveMD]

Originally Posted by JYohay

I and this same thing happen.
The second I told Paypal it was a deposit they said the dispute is canceled.
I got to keep the money.
Paypal is for selling goods and services, since a deposit is not covered, it was not nessasary for there to be "received goods"

Just so I understand, you were the seller and you got to keep the deposit when the buyer backed out?

[gatorfast]

Grow up and give the man his money back. You yourself just said you did not stipulate "non-refundable". Woulnt you want your $500 back if you were the buyer? Just refund his money and move on.

[Templar]

Originally Posted by gatorfast

Grow up and give the man his money back. You yourself just said you did not stipulate "non-refundable". Woulnt you want your $500 back if you were the buyer? Just refund his money and move on.

+1

You didn't tell him it was non-refundable, so he expects it to be refunded and you aren't willing to give it back? Really?

This shouldn't have even gone to a dispute really...

[SteveMD]

Originally Posted by gatorfast

Grow up and give the man his money back. You yourself just said you did not stipulate "non-refundable". Woulnt you want your $500 back if you were the buyer? Just refund his money and move on.

I jumped through hoops to enable him to get financing. I went to my credit union to get paperwork which I then had to fax and email - several times I might add, to his financing company, I took 3 hours off work to go to the DMV to get a copy of the title so that it could be similarly forwarded to his lender.

He was going to fly in on a Thursday to pick it up so I postponed a long weekend in Atlantic City so that I could pick him up from the airport.

So umm...no.

[SteveMD]

Originally Posted by Templar

+1

You didn't tell him it was non-refundable, so he expects it to be refunded and you aren't willing to give it back? Really?

This shouldn't have even gone to a dispute really...

No. I didn't put that on the invoice (my bad) but he was fully aware of the process. What I did put on the invoice was that the deal was to be completed within 30 days. Which it wasn't.

[gatorfast]

Originally Posted by SteveMD

I jumped through hoops to enable him to get financing. I went to my credit union to get paperwork which I then had to fax and email - several times I might add, to his financing company, I took 3 hours off work to go to the DMV to get a copy of the title so that it could be similarly forwarded to his lender.

He was going to fly in on a Thursday to pick it up so I postponed a long weekend in Atlantic City so that I could pick him up from the airport.

So umm...no.

I understand and it sucks you wasted your time doing all that. But at the end of the day it sounds like there was never a stipulation for a non-refundable deposit. I would consider it a lesson learned and be more stringent in the future.

[Templar]

So you told him (via e-mail or text or phone) that the deposit was non-refundable?

I mean I understand where you're coming from, but you should put yourself in the buyer's shoes for a minute... Yea, he backed out due to "financial issues," which could be total BS. But I would think that unless you SPECIFICALLY told him the deposit was non-refundable, the nice thing to do would be to give the man his deposit back.

Or, you can just let Paypal deal with it, which historically sides with the buyer, so you'll likely lose the deposit anyway. Really your call.

[Maestro]

Lets put it this way, even if you stated the deposit was non-refundable, you my not have good ground to stand on. Different states have different rules around this requirement so even if the buyer agreed you probably could not enforce it.

I personally do not stop listing a item even if someone agreed to buy, the deal is not done until it done. Why would you loose out because someone can not come up with the money.

[kits135i]

Originally Posted by gatorfast

Grow up and give the man his money back. You yourself just said you did not stipulate "non-refundable". Woulnt you want your $500 back if you were the buyer? Just refund his money and move on.

This right here! On top of that, how much more money is your time worth trying to fight this? Someone said it best. Take it as a learning lesson and move on.

[JYohay]

Originally Posted by SteveMD

Just so I understand, you were the seller and you got to keep the deposit when the buyer backed out?

I was selling a body kit.
I told the seller through text message if he wanted me to hold it i wanted a $200 (or maybe it was $100 don't remember) to hold it and take the thread down.
It was a $500 bodykit.
the buyer was coming from Ohio, i live in NYC.
2 weekends in a row he was so posed to come, leave Ohio sat night to arrive sunday morning.
since it was so early in the morning i drove my car into the city and paid for parking so i could wake up and drive to my parents house in long island to meet him in the morning.
first weekend was the superbowl and he backed out and said hed come the second weekend.
the next time he just stopped answering, made a story up that his phone died then his waterpump went, but didnt contact me for 3 days.
I told him a deposit to hold the bodykit, never specified NON refundable.
If you dont specify as REFUNDABLE....then a deposit is exactly that, a fee to hold the item, a down payment of sorts.
i did not right anything in the description
he wrote:
Note from ****BUYERs NAME***:
Deposit on e92 body kit (4pc). Sent using the PayPal Mobile application.

i explained to him that he highly inconvenienced me 2 weekends with alot of lack of communication.
again, when i told paypal it was a deposit, they looked and saw that buyer note, and gave me my money back (they first deducted it previously)

[srezzo]

Originally Posted by gatorfast

Grow up and give the man his money back. You yourself just said you did not stipulate "non-refundable". Woulnt you want your $500 back if you were the buyer? Just refund his money and move on.

Maybe the OP didn't specify it's non-refundable, and that was his/her minor mistake. At the same time, if I leave a deposit for a car and decide not to buy the car I consider the deposit gone (I've had this happen and didn't even ask for it back). Similarly, if I receive a deposit and the buyer backs out then I consider that deposit mine. The deposit is IMPLIED to be non-refundable IMHO. It's intended to hold the car (or other item) as a sign of good faith that you'll provide the rest upon pickup.

[kits135i]

Originally Posted by srezzo

Maybe the OP didn't specify it's non-refundable, and that was his/her minor mistake. At the same time, if I leave a deposit for a car and decide not to buy the car I consider the deposit gone (I've had this happen and didn't even ask for it back). Similarly, if I receive a deposit and the buyer backs out then I consider that deposit mine. The deposit is IMPLIED to be non-refundable IMHO. It's intended to hold the car (or other item) as a sign of good faith that you'll provide the rest upon pickup.

If you go to a dealer and place a deposit and a car. Then you decided later you did not want the car. The dealer would give you your money back. (I have done this a few times myself. Waiting so long for a car to arrive and then decide to go a different route) How is this any different that what happened? Unless you specify NON refundable deposit then you are entitled to your money back. No court of law will see it any different.

This works with any item. I just chose a car to demonstrate.

[gatorfast]

Originally Posted by srezzo

Maybe the OP didn't specify it's non-refundable, and that was his/her minor mistake. At the same time, if I leave a deposit for a car and decide not to buy the car I consider the deposit gone (I've had this happen and didn't even ask for it back). Similarly, if I receive a deposit and the buyer backs out then I consider that deposit mine. The deposit is IMPLIED to be non-refundable IMHO. It's intended to hold the car (or other item) as a sign of good faith that you'll provide the rest upon pickup.

I completely disagree. To me, a deposit is simply a good faith gesture to show you are truly interested in the item and intend to purchase it. If something happens and there is no deal, the buyer should always get their deposit back.

[MediaArtist]

Originally Posted by Maestro

I personally do not stop listing a item even if someone agreed to buy, the deal is not done until it done. Why would you loose out because someone can not come up with the money.

Agree with this guy.

If I list something on Craigslist, or some other site, the listing isn't coming down until it's gone and I have cash in hand.

I learned a long time ago there are a lot of big talkers, but small walkers, especially when it comes to the purchasing of big ticket items like cars, ATVs, Ski-doos, etc.

[srezzo]

Originally Posted by kits135i

If you go to a dealer and place a deposit and a car. Then you decided later you did not want the car. The dealer would give you your money back. (I have done this a few times myself. Waiting so long for a car to arrive and then decide to go a different route) How is this any different that what happened? Unless you specify NON refundable deposit then you are entitled to your money back. No court of law will see it any different.

This works with any item. I just chose a car to demonstrate.

Yea I guess it's a difference of opinion. To me, the dealer would do that because they want you to not be angry and go shopping there again. If I'm asking a private seller to hold something for me, I'm paying for that service (which would go towards the purchase price). Just a difference of opinion.

[kits135i]

Originally Posted by srezzo

Yea I guess it's a difference of opinion. To me, the dealer would do that because they want you to not be angry and go shopping there again. If I'm asking a private seller to hold something for me, I'm paying for that service (which would go towards the purchase price). Just a difference of opinion.

Difference of opinion or not, its LAW! If you do not state NON refundable then you must provide the other parties money back.

[Templar]

Originally Posted by kits135i

Difference of opinion or not, its LAW! If you do not state NON refundable then you must provide the other parties money back.

What law are you trying to refer to? I'd like to see what you can come up with for a situation like this.

While I agree that the NICE and GENTLEMANLY thing to do would be to let him have his deposit back, I don't think the OP is under any LEGAL obligations to do so. This is a private party vehicle sale, where he did not specifically state the refund was refundable or not. No legal contract was done up from what I can see, so again he's not under any legal obligation. We're not talking about property like a security deposit.

[mccannable]

The only thing that matters is he is the buyer so he will win. PayPal always sides with them.