[MountainStone]

I live in Vegas and my car is my daily driver, seeing mostly commuter duty. I have the jb4 g5 and love it. I see that adding the BMS DCI increases whp and allows for using map 2 which results in further gains. This is very tempting but i am concerned about any downsides associated with the engine breathing much hotter underhood air while stuck in daily traffic with 115-degree ambient air temperature. I have read the testing done by burger, but that is testing of the car with airflow and under load, not sitting in stop-and-go traffic where heat soak is very real. Should I get the dci or is there a risk of shortening the life of my engine in this scenario?

[mike@x-ph.com]

Originally Posted by MountainStone

I live in Vegas and my car is my daily driver, seeing mostly commuter duty. I have the jb4 g5 and love it. I see that adding the BMS DCI increases whp and allows for using map 2 which results in further gains. This is very tempting but i am concerned about any downsides associated with the engine breathing much hotter underhood air while stuck in daily traffic with 115-degree ambient air temperature. I have read the testing done by burger, but that is testing of the car with airflow and under load, not sitting in stop-and-go traffic where heat soak is very real. Should I get the dci or is there a risk of shortening the life of my engine in this scenario?

BMS testing proved that there is no downside to DCI
I have DCI on my car, you are free to try it anytime you like text me @ 702 494 9435

[Acekid187]

Originally Posted by MountainStone

I live in Vegas and my car is my daily driver, seeing mostly commuter duty. I have the jb4 g5 and love it. I see that adding the BMS DCI increases whp and allows for using map 2 which results in further gains. This is very tempting but i am concerned about any downsides associated with the engine breathing much hotter underhood air while stuck in daily traffic with 115-degree ambient air temperature. I have read the testing done by burger, but that is testing of the car with airflow and under load, not sitting in stop-and-go traffic where heat soak is very real. Should I get the dci or is there a risk of shortening the life of my engine in this scenario?

I was thinking the same thing. I think I'm going to just go for it. They don't cost that much so I might just bite the bullet. Let me know what you end up doing it

[C.Pop]

IMO the BMS testing really leaves a lot unsaid.

I live in Arizona and def noted a difference in charge temps going between DCI and a Mr.5 intake. It was exactly how you stated; in traffic, stop and go, with 120* ambient. The testing done by BMS does not encompass these environmental conditions. On a hot day, engine warmed up from driving around a while, after idling just a few mins my charge temps were 185*. This didn't drop for a loooooong time, even once I got on the highway.

I did just install the BMS cowl filters, which should help engine bay cooling. Otherwise the Mr.5 provided more resistance to heat soak. Cool day performance was great with both.

[Acekid187]

Originally Posted by C.Pop

IMO the BMS testing really leaves a lot unsaid.

I live in Arizona and def noted a difference in charge temps going between DCI and a Mr.5 intake. It was exactly how you stated; in traffic, stop and go, with 120* ambient. The testing done by BMS does not encompass these environmental conditions. On a hot day, after idling just a few mins my charge temps were 185*. This didn't drop for a loooooong time, even once I got on the highway.

I did just install the BMS cowl filters, which should help engine bay cooling. Otherwise the Mr.5 provided more resistance to heat soak. Cool day performance was great with both.

Hmm this has me second guessing it now. Was thing bout the bms cowl delete with filters as well. Was gonna buy the package deal that they had

[Acekid187]

Also in AZ as well. Sierra Vista

[EJ_3]

Besides JB4, do you have any other mods? FWIW, I have aFe dci and have no issues. Then again I have a FMIC, vented hood, and run e85. If you concerned about temps, you can try similar mods or meth.

[C.Pop]

Originally Posted by Acekid187

Hmm this has me second guessing it now. Was thing bout the bms cowl delete with filters as well. Was gonna buy the package deal that they had

I think it depends on your fuel, meth/no meth, how much boost you're running... etc.

For me, on E50, it was worth going to the Mr.5 intake over the BMS DCI just due to heat soak of the engine back. At highway speeds there wasn't much of a difference at all, but def around town/stop and go traffic, which is common in phoenix, it was very noticeable.

I recently switched back to DCI's as I'm targeting much higher boost and will be running vargas stage 2's soon. I'm hoping the cowl filters help with getting rid of heat. I also heat-tape wrapped my charge pipe, which did help a little bit.

If you're using E85 it doesn't matter as much, or if you're spraying meth likewise.

Either is fine. The BMS DCI's sound great and are cheap. Just in the dead of summer I get more performance out of my own Mr.5 version.

[135Pats]

It’s an intake…let’s not get too worked up over it. You are sending said air through a compressor and turbine wheel generating RIDICULOUS amounts of heat. The charge will see far more heat there than what it’s seeing at ambient engine bay temps. The strongest N54s on earth run open filter elements for the most part. If it’s good enough for Terry’s two singles, Tony’s 700+ WHP twins, Shiv’s 700+ WHP singles….it’s good enough for you and me.

[AWD Addict]

Originally Posted by 135Pats

It’s an intake…let’s not get too worked up over it. You are sending said air through a compressor and turbine wheel generating RIDICULOUS amounts of heat. The charge will see far more heat there than what it’s seeing at ambient engine bay temps. The strongest N54s on earth run open filter elements for the most part. If it’s good enough for Terry’s two singles, Tony’s 700+ WHP twins, Shiv’s 700+ WHP singles….it’s good enough for you and me.

That.

[SINGH_]

I run it and I feel it does increase IATs at low speeds, but the benefits exceed the heat issues imo. As 135Pats said... IATs are going to be high regardless on our setups. If I were you, I would consider running a solid methanol injection setup as well. It would give you a solid advantage in your environment. I just started running it, love it... no worries about summer IATs.

[danniexi]

reiterating what 135Pats mentions above, a proper FMIC will have a much larger benefit in lowering your IATs than the intake you choose.

[C.Pop]

Originally Posted by E92 N54

I run it and I feel it does increase IATs at low speeds, but the benefits exceed the heat issues imo. As 135Pats said... IATs are going to be high regardless on our setups. If I were you, I would consider running a solid methanol injection setup as well. It would give you a solid advantage in your environment. I just started running it, love it... no worries about summer IATs.

I agree running meth is the current best way to reduce charge temps.

Originally Posted by 135Pats

It’s an intake…let’s not get too worked up over it. You are sending said air through a compressor and turbine wheel generating RIDICULOUS amounts of heat. The charge will see far more heat there than what it’s seeing at ambient engine bay temps. The strongest N54s on earth run open filter elements for the most part. If it’s good enough for Terry’s two singles, Tony’s 700+ WHP twins, Shiv’s 700+ WHP singles….it’s good enough for you and me.

Based on your measurements of what? You're not demonstrating an understanding of how the ECU works or how damned hot it gets in our climate. Heat soak is very real, like I posted, do you want a picture of charge temps at idle and 184*? Did shiv or Tony, or anyone do these numbers hood down on a 120* day with no meth? Your argument is absurd. All of a sudden the environment changes (hot as F) and pulling super hot air from the engine bay goes from being a "not a bad idea b/c of compressor heat/etc etc" to "very bad idea".

I ran the tests, I saw the data, I can 100% tell you that an N54 in the dead of summer IN ARIZONA on a 335i with no cowl filter changeover will heat soak the shit out of the engine bay, and stay that way for a very long time. What do I mean by long? I mean 30 mins of highway driving for it to go "down" to 145* charge temps, while cruising. Your ecu IS pulling timing at those charge temps. You ARE making less power.

I don't buy in to the normal "does this intake matter" 99% of the time. I don't think there is a huge difference. On a cool day, hell, even on a normal person's hot day, I think (based on my measurements) that the DCI is great -and it's a great value (what other intake cost $100 on a BMW?). When it's 120* out and you're dealing with things like traffic and stop lights... uh... nope.

This isn't a bag on the DCI. It's perfect for most people. The Mr.5 version is ugly and a PITA, plus more expensive if you use nice filters (I used AFe). It will give you about 20-30* in actual charge temp differences (for a while anyway), and a significant reduction in time before extreme heat soak. I.e. sitting in traffic will still heat soak you but it'll take longer.

Originally Posted by danniexi

reiterating what 135Pats mentions above, a proper FMIC will have a much larger benefit in lowering your IATs than the intake you choose.

Again, based on what? You're comparing rejecting heat from the compression to pulling in air that's damn near 200* to start with. Yep, a FMIC is important but when your ambient is 120*, and the surface of the road has been sitting in the sun all day and much hotter, your magic FMIC isn't doing anywhere near what it'd do in New Jersey when it's 90* out, nevermind when it's 60*.

THIS IS NOT THE NORMAL DCI VS. CAI ARGUMENT.

OP:

Most of these guys do not live in a desert climate, and they're pretty good at repeating info posted from before with no real understanding of the problem you're facing. You are correct to place greater emphasis on heat rejection being in an extreme climate. As the outside temp goes way up, you're removing the large delta T required for efficient intercooler functionality, and just driving around, you will be pulling in air that's 150+ degrees. Mr.5 is better in this instance than the DCI. Meth injection would fix your air temp problem best, but that's another bag of worms you may or may not want to do.

[MountainStone]

Great discussion. Thanks everybody for your input. I have no mods other than the JB4 and am not looking to go crazy with adding more. I am leaning toward a DCI and downpipes so I can use a stronger map on the JB4, and with the occasional addition of E85 just for fun, but not going with full bolt ons or methanol injection.

Originally Posted by C.Pop

Heat soak is very real, like I posted, do you want a picture of charge temps at idle and 184*? Did shiv or Tony, or anyone do these numbers hood down on a 120* day with no meth?

I ran the tests, I saw the data, I can 100% tell you that an N54 in the dead of summer IN ARIZONA on a 335i with no cowl filter changeover will heat soak the shit out of the engine bay, and stay that way for a very long time. What do I mean by long? I mean 30 mins of highway driving for it to go "down" to 145* charge temps, while cruising. Your ecu IS pulling timing at those charge temps. You ARE making less power.


THIS IS NOT THE NORMAL DCI VS. CAI ARGUMENT.

Thanx C. Pop. You are correct that I am not attempting to rehash the same old DCI vs CAI thread. I'd love to install a DCI, set my JB4 to map 2 and gain some horsepower, but yours appears to be the only actual testing done in a daily-driven commuter situation such as mine and I don't like the numbers you recorded. Perhaps I place too much emphasis on the temperature delta between stock and DCI, but that's why I asked the question; I just don't know the implications of higher charge temps on my engine.

I'd love to take my own measurements in my car on my roads on my commute both with and without a DCI. May I ask how you went about obtaining your numbers?

Thanks again everybody!

[Acekid187]

I really learned a lot

[charrigan]

I would suggest a sealed intake. Even on 80 degree days I could feel loss of power from sucking hot air at lights.

[Tiago@VRSF]

You need to free up the intake to make power in the mid range and especially up top where these cars lack power. A sealed intake just can't do that on ANY high powered setup, doesn't matter if you're in Sahara or the arctic. It all comes down to flow.

There's significantly more heat being exchanged in the compression process as well as the residual heat from the turbine housing which is literally inches from the compressor housing.

What you should really be focusing on is getting a quality intercooler to bring that temperature back to ambient

[335NJ]

Originally Posted by charrigan

I would suggest a sealed intake. Even on 80 degree days I could feel loss of power from sucking hot air at lights.

x2.

I believe AFE makes a sealed unit, but i'm not 100% sure of what benefit that has over a stock airbox w/ a good drop in filter. I'm still kind of new to these engines.

[zeel]

I love these threads.

Keep over analyzing the DCI vs CAI thing please.

[C.Pop]

Originally Posted by MountainStone

Great discussion. Thanks everybody for your input. I have no mods other than the JB4 and am not looking to go crazy with adding more. I am leaning toward a DCI and downpipes so I can use a stronger map on the JB4, and with the occasional addition of E85 just for fun, but not going with full bolt ons or methanol injection.



Thanx C. Pop. You are correct that I am not attempting to rehash the same old DCI vs CAI thread. I'd love to install a DCI, set my JB4 to map 2 and gain some horsepower, but yours appears to be the only actual testing done in a daily-driven commuter situation such as mine and I don't like the numbers you recorded. Perhaps I place too much emphasis on the temperature delta between stock and DCI, but that's why I asked the question; I just don't know the implications of higher charge temps on my engine.

I'd love to take my own measurements in my car on my roads on my commute both with and without a DCI. May I ask how you went about obtaining your numbers?

Thanks again everybody!

If your power goals are not lofty (and they don't appear to be) IMO I'd go with the DCI. Yes, everything I said above is true, but at your stage I don't think it's going to matter a ton.

I performed extensive data logging via cobb in as close to steady state conditions as I could. I normalized outside temp within a degree, and I found a "test track" that I could have some repeatable data on, and re-performed the data many times to establish a trend. Standard useful data acquisition stuff. Not the typical aftermarket car part testing we see, which is usually not very trustworthy IMO.

I also did a test comparing heat soak times wrapping the charge pipe vs not wrapping it (with heat tape) and found the tape to make a 10* difference at worst case heat soak scenario. Real world charge temp difference of a couple degrees once heat soaked.

[Stucks]

Ive run both the dual cone intake and the afe sealed intake elite stage 2 whatever you wanna call it lol. In warmer climates, I would suggest the afe sealed intake. I noticed a difference in power over the stock intake, and buraqs testing shows that. BUT....if you are going to run meth, intake air temp before the turbos doesn't really matter as you would value an intake that flows the best (undoubtedly the dci) over one with slightly cooler intake temps. That's why I went back to the dci setup, because I now run meth making flow a more important characteristic vs slightly cooler temps.

[ken1137]

I skipped all posts so I dont know if this has been said already; no issues with DCI and did you know the Berk and ER Time Attack cars ran with DCI's. Google them. Upgrade your FMIC.