[mkoesel]

http://autoblog.com/2014/03/25/volks...spy-shots-poll

US availability is of course not guaranteed.

[positiveions]

Looks good. I wish they bring a Jetta S.W. R.

[Nkc]

that's the ugliest wagon I've ever seen and I'm a wagon lover.

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by positiveions

Looks good. I wish they bring a Jetta S.W. R.

For the new VII wagon, they are moving the car under the Golf brand in the US (like it is in most of the rest of the world) since the Jetta has spun off into its own product now that shares almost nothing with the Golf.

But yes, I too am crossing my fingers for US sales. Should be faster than a 328i xDrive and at least 10k cheaper. Same thing when compared to a V60 T6 AWD R Design - faster and cheaper (Polestar is probably faster but a hell of a lot more expensive).

Originally Posted by Nkc

that's the ugliest wagon I've ever seen and I'm a wagon lover.

Well it's a mule.

Here's the new Golf VII R hatchback:



The wagon just adds a longer hind end. Here's the non-R:



The combination of the two should look great.

[pmeloche]

I like the VII R Hatchback a lot, the wagon not so much. The hatchback in red looks really good.

[mkoesel]

Little interest here, but I am convinced people are going to be excited by this car.

http://www.autoblog.com/2014/05/21/v...gon-spy-shots/

Just give it time. If this hits the US, these are going to spring onto lots of people's radar. I'm putting one next to the F80 in the garage if this comes here. Some one try and stop me.

[Meeni]

The current Jetta wagon looks better.

[KingOfJericho]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

Little interest here, but I am convinced people are going to be excited by this car.

http://www.autoblog.com/2014/05/21/v...gon-spy-shots/

Just give it time. If this hits the US, these are going to spring onto lots of people's radar. I'm putting one next to the F80 in the garage if this comes here. Some one try and stop me.

I'm trying to figure out the logic here: Wagons don't sell in the US. The Golf R is a tough sell due to price in the US. I don't see how a combination of the two will create a winning formula.

I actually love the Golf R, but at nearly $36-38k, it faces some stiff competition and really isn't a good buy. I LOVE wagons but this one is quite ugly.

[mkoesel]

^^^

Well, sure, if you aren't a wagon fan or potential buyer, you can safely ignore this one too. But there are lots of enthusiasts who do love wagons, and small as it may be, there absolutely is a market for wagons in the US (the Sportwagen being the poster child).

A Golf R (or any Golf) doesn't work as a small SUV alternative because it lacks the cargo space. The Sportwagen rectifies this. So, now you can make the case against the small SUV (even if it still doesn't quite match some of them in interior room). And those things easily crest $35k. For similar money, I'll take the solution that handles like a sport sedan, accelerates like a sport sedan, and is over all much more fun to drive. And that's regardless of what the hell it looks like because frankly a small SUV isn't winning a beauty contest either. Luckily, in my case, I think it looks good, and the pics I posted earlier show the potential (the mules - like all mules - make the car look like a disaster, nothing new there).

[Red Bread]

Meh, I'd strongly prefer the Golf R to that wagon just as I'd much prefer an M135i to any F31, even the 'you can't have it, silly American' 335i version.

Now, just ignore the wife's car...

[KingOfJericho]

There have already been a few tests of this theory with the Audi S4 Avant. They sold a few hundred in the final years they brought them to the US. That's a pretty good indication of the size of the market and that car was gorgeous.

I had a 2008.5 GTI and it was probably one of the best cars I've owned. It had great fit and finish for the money and drove great for a $26k car. That same car with a price tag $10k higher, although with AWD and more power, starts to feel a little cheap. You can get into a Q5 for that.

I'm excited for the Golf R but that, too, requires a very specific buyer. You're not selling it to people who crave performance because the M235i is a better option for that and you're not selling it to buyers looking for utility because the Q5 is better at that. You're only selling it to people who are looking for a Golf R. That's a very narrow demographic.

[Red Bread]

I'd have bought a three pedal B8 S4 Avant in a second. I'm having a hard time not buying a friend's B5 S4 Avant. I was never a fan of the lame V8 ones though.

[yllwwgn]

I will keep it brief:

Wagons = Awesome

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by KingOfJericho

There have already been a few tests of this theory with the Audi S4 Avant. They sold a few hundred in the final years they brought them to the US. That's a pretty good indication of the size of the market and that car was gorgeous.

Look closer. The A4 Avant went bye-bye soon after too. Why? Well because no one wanted to pay the five figure Audi tax vs. the similar VW for the family wagon, that's why.

Meanwhile the Sportwagen that these people migrated to is thriving in its third generation and the fourth is on its way. This car does not exist to lose VAG money, that's for sure. And you'll acknowledge that if you're honest.

Viable market for the Sportwagen R in the US? Who knows. But it sure isn't impossible. Same type of rhetoric about wagons not selling in US gets regurgitated about hatchbacks all the time too. Yet seven generations of Golf beg to differ. Differ enough to get the R across the pond. It isn't impossible that the wagon can perform that same feat.

Give me a 300hp AWD VW wagon for 40k over a 240hp 55k+ AWD BMW 3 touring all day long. How many of you wagon lovers can honestly say you would not at least consider that now?

[KingOfJericho]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

Look closer. The A4 Avant went bye-bye soon after too. Why? Well because no one wanted to pay the five figure Audi tax vs. the similar VW for the family wagon, that's why.

Meanwhile the Sportwagen that these people migrated to is thriving in its third generation and the fourth is on its way. This car does not exist to lose VAG money, that's for sure. And you'll acknowledge that if you're honest.

I think Audi killed the A4 and S4 Avants in favor of the Allroad. Why bother Federalizing A4, S4, A6, and S6 wagons to only sell a few hundred of each when you can make one and call it a day? They know that the Q5/Q7 would only further desimate wagon sales.

When I was growing up in the 80s, the go-to family car was typically a station wagon because it was the most practical vehicle for the job. When the 90s rolled around, SUVs became commonplace, making wagons obsolete. I think this is ultimately what led to their demise. They are still quite popular in Europe due to the high cost of fuel and smaller roads in many places which is why European manufacturers still make them (and where they profit from them). I have no doubt that they sell quite well oversees - I've seen it with my own eyes - they're everywhere. The question is really about them offering them in the US, which is a largely dead market for wagons.

VAG does strange things sometimes. Did you know they axed the manual S4 in Europe? What the hell is this world coming to!?

Originally Posted by mkoesel

Viable market for the Sportwagen R in the US? Who knows. But it sure isn't impossible. Same type of rhetoric about wagons not selling in US gets regurgitated about hatchbacks all the time too. Yet seven generations of Golf beg to differ. Differ enough to get the R across the pond. It isn't impossible that the wagon can perform that same feat.

Give me a 300hp AWD VW wagon for 40k over a 240hp 55k+ AWD BMW 3 touring all day long. How many of you wagon lovers can honestly say you would not at least consider that now?

The Golf has a cult following and will continue to sell well. The GTI is the best value out there in terms of fit and finish and performance at its price point. That's why I bought one and why my father still has his. The R relies on the most dedicated of Golf devotees. They want to hottest hatch and they get it. My only concern is that I doubt that this already-thin crowd of R buyers is really in search of a wagon version.

It's only an opinion and time will tell but I think the smart money is on this not coming stateside considering that dealers already end up with leftover Rs when the initial rush subsides.

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by KingOfJericho

I think Audi killed the A4 and S4 Avants in favor of the Allroad.

I think they canned it because they couldn't make money on it here anymore and that's all there is to it. They sell the allroad along side the avant in other countries and I'm sure they would do it here too if they could find the buyers.

The question is really about them offering them in the US, which is a largely dead market for wagons.

I feel like you are trying to tell me that you don't actually think the Sportwagen is a successful product despite what the sales charts say. I'm sure that's not the case so it's strange to me that you keep going back to this dead market theory. I'm here trying to tell you that you are mistaken and that the wagon - at least the VW one - is alive and well and all you want to do is bury the body and move on.

Let's not mistake the sales failure of the performance variant of a wagon that itself could not sell for the sales potential of a performance variant of a wagon that does.

The Golf has a cult following and will continue to sell well.

Psst. Secret - just between you and me. So does the Sportwagen. Don't tell anyone else.

My only concern is that I doubt that this already-thin crowd of R buyers is really in search of a wagon version.

Golf R buyers don't care a bit about a Sportwagen R, just like standard Golf buyers don't care about the Sportwagen today. Two different cars for two different customers.

Wagon buyers in general, on the other hand, tend to be enthusiasts who love cool performance variants.

It's only an opinion and time will tell but I think the smart money is on this not coming stateside considering that dealers already end up with leftover Rs when the initial rush subsides.

Maybe not, but I think it has a shot.

You want to know what else shouldn't work? A six speed manual diesel wagon in the US, that's what. Yet you can go buy one today, and wouldn't you know they even decided to bring one over for the new generation too. So then, yes, sometimes there is a market for what seems way too quirky to sell. A 300hp AWD wagon has real potential for appeal.

Even if it doesn't make it here, I think it'll be a great car that VW deserves props for putting into production.

[KingOfJericho]

I was only ever talking about the USA. I know it will sell overseas and was never arguing that point. That's where I think we have our wires crossed.

Which co offers a manual diesel wagon? The BMW only comes in auto.

EDIT: I think it's the VW Sportwagen?

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by KingOfJericho

I was only ever talking about the USA. I know it will sell overseas and was never arguing that point. That's where I think we have our wires crossed.

Not at all. I am talking about the US market, and I think I've been pretty clear about that. Surely you are not completely unaware that that the Sportwagen is sold here and has been for years now, right?

Which co offers a manual diesel wagon? The BMW only comes in auto.

The diesel Sportwagen, though, does get the manual option (as does the gasoline model).

[KingOfJericho]

Looks like VW sells about 1,200-1,500 Sportwagens monthly. Pretty solid numbers. Admittedly, this is a vehicle that is not on my radar.

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by KingOfJericho

Looks like VW sells about 1,200-1,500 Sportwagens monthly. Pretty solid numbers. Admittedly, this is a vehicle that is not on my radar.

Try it in reverse.

[Meeni]

Originally Posted by KingOfJericho

I think Audi killed the A4 and S4 Avants in favor of the Allroad. Why bother Federalizing A4, S4, A6, and S6 wagons to only sell a few hundred of each when you can make one and call it a day? They know that the Q5/Q7 would only further desimate wagon sales.

There is a market for a nice Wagon, just not at the A6/F31 pricepoint.

[KingOfJericho]

Most manufacturers have dropped wagons and those that were introduced (CTS, TSX) were quickly dropped due to low sales. I think VW may be the only manfacturer seeing an uptick in wagon sales.

As an enthusiast and a father, I would love to have my S4 in avant form but it wasn't offered. I think the last of the performance wagons died with the end of the last gen CTS-V. I miss the Audi Avant. They were best of breed.