[alexx03]

hey guys,
Sunday i had my first track experience and i loved it,cant wait to get back.
i have some questions but i will start off with some info about my car.
2007 BMW 335i with factory oil cooler
FBO JB4 G5 ISO BMS Race Flash 100% Meth Single CM10 nozzle
BC coilovers,MFactory LSD,UUC Short Shifter
Front:19x8.5 235/35 Michelin PSS Rear:19x9.5 275/35 Michelin PSS

my first question would be, should i go to the track with less power?
i wasn't using the cars full potential all the time,only WOT on the 2 straights i didnt know if it would just be to much.

second question would be i have motul RBF600 and brand new stock pads in my garage. When i bought the car the guy told me it has BMW Performance slotted rotors,would this be a okay track setup? maybe brake lines in a few months?

3rd thing would be logging. i didn't log anything while at the track because i didn't exactly know what i should be logging. should i be logging a whole lap?
just the straights?

4th question is 2 in 1, my only problems i had all day. after a bunch of good laps when i would start down shifting and slowing down after the straights my car would not let me downshift to 2nd. when i asked the instructor what it could be he said its my car not letting me downshift because it knows it will over rev. but at points i feel like i was going pretty slow and that it could not have been that. Could my transmission fluid have been getting to hot? not lubricating enough?
the second part is,when i would be able to downshift into second and go hard threw the first turn thats a longer faster turn the car felt very bouncy and not very stiff.
subframe bushings? dampeners not stiff enough? tire pressure?

well thats all for now,i hope some of you track stars have some helpful tips and advice!!
and yes this was my first time ever on a road course track in any sort of car so my questions may sound a little silly to some!!

[3002 tii]

1. I personally don't think all that power is necessary, there's nothing to be won and you're going to gain few tenths max. Where you really make up is time is corner and braking and at this point in the game you shouldn't be worried about times. I would run stock map and minimize any overheating issues.

2. Motul 600 is fine, I do a full flush once in the beginning of the season (2 bottles) and then a bleed every 2-3 events (1 bottle). SS lines will help with pedal feel but won't really improve/change braking. BMW Performance slotted rotors are fine but in a way a waste since they're so expensive. If you plan to track often, you're almost better off getting a 2nd set of cheap blank rotors (ATE, Powerslot, Brembo blanks from TireRack) and saving those expensive slotted rotors for street. But if you're getting 2nd set of rotors, may as well get a 2nd set of track pads to go with them so you don't have to worry about re-bedding before/after track.

3. No data logging this early, just go out, have fun, learn the lines, be aware of your surroundings. If anything you can check your entry speeds coming onto the main straight to see which 'line' you prefer on the turn before. I've experimented with different entry points on the last corner leading to a straight to see which carries the most exit speed onto the straight.

4. What do you mean you can't downshift into 2nd? Are you driving auto/dct/step? How slow are you coming down you feel the need to get into 2nd. The n54/n55 has so much torque I can't see why you'd have to go to 2nd (assuming you probably hit 5th gear on the main straight). 3rd gear should be sufficient. This is where a manual trans comes into play because you could heel/toe to get the revs up coming out of the turn. If you have DCT though, it should replicate heel/toe for you.

The trans fluid in our cars are "lifetime" but I've flushed mine every 40k and it can't hurt. Car feeling bouncy could be a few things, the soft e9x bushings are definitely a factor. Folks upgrade to M3 bushings, I personally did the subframe inserts as it was way more cost effective and easier to install while achieving 70% of the benefit of the m3 bushings. Your shocks could also be due for replacement, how many miles on them?

Tire pressures are tough to advise on, every car and every tire likes different pressure. Key is for you to monitor your pressures. Do a few hot laps and come in to see what the pressures are. Some tires have little triangles on the sidewall to show how much rollover you're experiencing. Similarly you could chalk your tires (more done in auto-x) to see how it's wearing. Ask around others who are running same setups (car, weight, tires) to see what their preference is. As a starting point, you can go 2-3lbs lower than manufacturer specs knowing pressures will spike as they heat up. My Z4 is 2950 lbs and it likes 39 hot on R888's.

[alexx03]

Originally Posted by 3002 tii

1. I personally don't think all that power is necessary, there's nothing to be won and you're going to gain few tenths max. Where you really make up is time is corner and braking and at this point in the game you shouldn't be worried about times. I would run stock map and minimize any overheating issues.

2. Motul 600 is fine, I do a full flush once in the beginning of the season (2 bottles) and then a bleed every 2-3 events (1 bottle). SS lines will help with pedal feel but won't really improve/change braking. BMW Performance slotted rotors are fine but in a way a waste since they're so expensive. If you plan to track often, you're almost better off getting a 2nd set of cheap blank rotors (ATE, Powerslot, Brembo blanks from TireRack) and saving those expensive slotted rotors for street. But if you're getting 2nd set of rotors, may as well get a 2nd set of track pads to go with them so you don't have to worry about re-bedding before/after track.

3. No data logging this early, just go out, have fun, learn the lines, be aware of your surroundings. If anything you can check your entry speeds coming onto the main straight to see which 'line' you prefer on the turn before. I've experimented with different entry points on the last corner leading to a straight to see which carries the most exit speed onto the straight.

4. What do you mean you can't downshift into 2nd? Are you driving auto/dct/step? How slow are you coming down you feel the need to get into 2nd. The n54/n55 has so much torque I can't see why you'd have to go to 2nd (assuming you probably hit 5th gear on the main straight). 3rd gear should be sufficient. This is where a manual trans comes into play because you could heel/toe to get the revs up coming out of the turn. If you have DCT though, it should replicate heel/toe for you.

The trans fluid in our cars are "lifetime" but I've flushed mine every 40k and it can't hurt. Car feeling bouncy could be a few things, the soft e9x bushings are definitely a factor. Folks upgrade to M3 bushings, I personally did the subframe inserts as it was way more cost effective and easier to install while achieving 70% of the benefit of the m3 bushings. Your shocks could also be due for replacement, how many miles on them?

1. Thanks
2. i dont think i will be going to the track more then once a month,its something me and some friends are just getting into. i was hoping to use these rotors until there done( DD and track) and then just buy some slotted stoptechs for DD and track also. good idea?
3. Thanks
4. i have 6MT, thats something the instructor told me also that if i have enough grip i should just adjust my speed and go through in third. i never went back out after he suggested this tho. now that i think of it i was always reving really high through out that turn. still doesnt solve my mystery of not being able to get into second,maybe i was just getting nervous?

the shocks are BC coilovers that were installed last summer so i dont think they could be gone already,the bushings i dont think have ever been changed.
the car has 95,000 km's.
are you using OEM trans fluid or something else?

thanks a million!!

[3002 tii]

Originally Posted by alexx03

1. Thanks
2. i dont think i will be going to the track more then once a month,its something me and some friends are just getting into. i was hoping to use these rotors until there done( DD and track) and then just buy some slotted stoptechs for DD and track also. good idea?
3. Thanks
4. i have 6MT, thats something the instructor told me also that if i have enough grip i should just adjust my speed and go through in third. i never went back out after he suggested this tho. now that i think of it i was always reving really high through out that turn. still doesnt solve my mystery of not being able to get into second,maybe i was just getting nervous?

the shocks are BC coilovers that were installed last summer so i dont think they could be gone already,the bushings i dont think have ever been changed.
the car has 95,000 km's.
are you using OEM trans fluid or something else?

thanks a million!!

1. NP
2. Sounds good
3. NP
4. Obviously I don't know the track and the speeds you're carrying but I never downshift 3 gears. So were you in 4th or 5th? Regardless, if you're revving that high, I don't see the point of going down even lower a gear. But in general, worn transmission mounts can be the reason for not being able to downshift or missing a shift.

Hate to break it to you but BC coilovers are not really performance oriented, they are more street and you may be finding they are under dampened for track (or the spring rates you're running).

Look into the subframe bushings/inserts but this is something that would be even more noticeable on street when you drive over uneven pavement and less so on track.

I use the OE stuff, MTF-L2/3 (whichever is right for your VIN).

[alexx03]

Originally Posted by 3002 tii

1. NP
2. Sounds good
3. NP
4. Obviously I don't know the track and the speeds you're carrying but I never downshift 3 gears. So were you in 4th or 5th? Regardless, if you're revving that high, I don't see the point of going down even lower a gear. But in general, worn transmission mounts can be the reason for not being able to downshift or missing a shift.

Hate to break it to you but BC coilovers are not really performance oriented, they are more street and you may be finding they are under dampened for track (or the spring rates you're running).

Look into the subframe bushings/inserts but this is something that would be even more noticeable on street when you drive over uneven pavement and less so on track.

I use the OE stuff, MTF-L2/3 (whichever is right for your VIN).

4. at the end of the straights i was maybe 5k rpm in 4th? maybe a little more maybe a little less,honeslty i was just more worried about stopping and not crashing since it was my first time lol

yes i know BC's are no where near track coilovers,when i bought them i had no intention at all of going to the track...now its a different story.

on the street the cracks and uneven pavement do make my car feel very squirmy and kind of like the back tires and sliding in place and in the rain it is actually a little scary because if it feels as if the back end is very lose. i always thought it was just the Michelin PSS not being very good on anything but hot sticky asphalt or concrete. do you think it could be my subframe bushings?

and i guess i will take a look at my transmission mounts,how can you tell if a bushing or mount is going bad? cracks and deformation?

youve been a giant help, Thanks!!

[3002 tii]

Originally Posted by alexx03

4. at the end of the straights i was maybe 5k rpm in 4th? maybe a little more maybe a little less,honeslty i was just more worried about stopping and not crashing since it was my first time lol

yes i know BC's are no where near track coilovers,when i bought them i had no intention at all of going to the track...now its a different story.

on the street the cracks and uneven pavement do make my car feel very squirmy and kind of like the back tires and sliding in place and in the rain it is actually a little scary because if it feels as if the back end is very lose. i always thought it was just the Michelin PSS not being very good on anything but hot sticky asphalt or concrete. do you think it could be my subframe bushings?

and i guess i will take a look at my transmission mounts,how can you tell if a bushing or mount is going bad? cracks and deformation?

youve been a giant help, Thanks!!

Again, no idea what track you're driving but during classroom / download sessions you should ask others or the instructor where they're shifting (assuming same car, gearing, etc).

Squirmy can also mean different things. If you're squirming side to side, might be an alignment or your rear trailing arm bushings that needs to be replaced. If you're bouncing up/down, it could be shocks or subframe bushings.

If you have the oe rubber trans mounts, visual inspection might not say much but if you find your shifts aren't as precise as they used to be, those might be due for replacement. I'd replace them since they're relatively cheap and easy to do.

[Killerfish2012]

Originally Posted by alexx03

hey guys,
Sunday i had my first track experience and i loved it,cant wait to get back.
i have some questions but i will start off with some info about my car.
2007 BMW 335i with factory oil cooler
FBO JB4 G5 ISO BMS Race Flash 100% Meth Single CM10 nozzle
BC coilovers,MFactory LSD,UUC Short Shifter
Front:19x8.5 235/35 Michelin PSS Rear:19x9.5 275/35 Michelin PSS

You're asking for it!

[alexx03]

Originally Posted by Killerfish2012

You're asking for it!

What you mean by this??
Pretty sure im just 1 of hundreds of people running that setup.
Jb4 G5 with meth is a pretty normal thing in this car, or does it have something to do with the track?

[Killerfish2012]

Originally Posted by alexx03

What you mean by this??
Pretty sure im just 1 of hundreds of people running that setup.
Jb4 G5 with meth is a pretty normal thing in this car, or does it have something to do with the track?

I mean engine failure bub.

[alexx03]

Originally Posted by Killerfish2012

I mean engine failure bub.

Care to explain why your thinking engine failure, its why im asking all these questions.
Jb4 g5 with meth seem like pretty common mods?

[alexx03]

Thanks a lot
I have been noticing the shifting does feel different then when I bought the car 2 years ago.
At the track it was a more up and down feeling, on the street its more side to side.

Originally Posted by 3002 tii

Again, no idea what track you're driving but during classroom / download sessions you should ask others or the instructor where they're shifting (assuming same car, gearing, etc).

Squirmy can also mean different things. If you're squirming side to side, might be an alignment or your rear trailing arm bushings that needs to be replaced. If you're bouncing up/down, it could be shocks or subframe bushings.

If you have the oe rubber trans mounts, visual inspection might not say much but if you find your shifts aren't as precise as they used to be, those might be due for replacement. I'd replace them since they're relatively cheap and easy to do.

[Killerfish2012]

Originally Posted by alexx03

Care to explain why your thinking engine failure, its why im asking all these questions.
Jb4 g5 with meth seem like pretty common mods?

First of all, I tracked my 335I from 2009 till it's retirement April of this year. About a year ago, a fellow long time member of this forum who used meth on the streets, decided to start circuit racing. He made a thread after his first track day, asking for advice from those who have a lot of track experience. I only made one post in his thread (do a search with my username), and it was suggesting that he ditch his meth setup ASAP, and use a flash tune + 100 octane race gas. His response was similar to yours, verbatim. A few months later, he blew his engine to bits. I'm just giving you my two cents. From your initial response, I was going to just drop the issue.

[Mavus]

Originally Posted by alexx03

Care to explain why your thinking engine failure, its why im asking all these questions.
Jb4 g5 with meth seem like pretty common mods?

what fish said 100%

meth on track is asking for significant damage

[alexx03]

im not doughting you or anything man, i was just looking for an explanation along with your input. i have no idea who you are so i cant just trust someone who just says"your asking for it" after you said blowing my engine i thought who is this guy and went threw your posts and quickly saw you track a lot.
i wasnt trying be rude or a dick i just wanted some background info on why not to use meth on the track. i hope you understand where i am coming from.
would you care to explain why race gas is better then meth at the track? please

Originally Posted by Killerfish2012

First of all, I tracked my 335I from 2009 till it's retirement April of this year. About a year ago, a fellow long time member of this forum who used meth on the streets, decided to start circuit racing. He made a thread after his first track day, asking for advice from those who have a lot of track experience. I only made one post in his thread (do a search with my username), and it was suggesting that he ditch his meth setup ASAP, and use a flash tune + 100 octane race gas. His response was similar to yours, verbatim. A few months later, he blew his engine to bits. I'm just giving you my two cents. From your initial response, I was going to just drop the issue.

[tc535i]

I know a guy in socal that ran jb4 map 5 + meth and popped his motor at the track

for the extra .1 sec per lap, I wouldn't risk my motor to be the #1 TRACK DAY CHAMPION

[tc535i]

Originally Posted by alexx03

im not doughting you or anything man, i was just looking for an explanation along with your input. i have no idea who you are so i cant just trust someone who just says"your asking for it" after you said blowing my engine i thought who is this guy and went threw your posts and quickly saw you track a lot.
i wasnt trying be rude or a dick i just wanted some background info on why not to use meth on the track. i hope you understand where i am coming from.
would you care to explain why race gas is better then meth at the track? please

because meth is a fully separate system, and just adds a number of possible failure points to the mix

anytime you increase possibility, statistically you'll tend to that direction

but hey, I made my decisions with my wallet, everyone's free to their own

[3002 tii]

Blown motor thread here

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=807663

[Killerfish2012]

Originally Posted by alexx03

would you care to explain why race gas is better then meth at the track? please

It's a very long story, but old schoolers suspect that there is an "inherent design flaw" if you will, with the N54. Specifically, cylinder's 5 & 6 suffer from fuel starvation under high G cornering loads at the track. Meth exacerbates this issue. You want to rely on the fuel injectors supplying the high octane fuel, as opposed to having pemium fuel flowing through the injectors, and a secondary source of high octane fuel via a separate delivery system. In this scenario, the smallest disruption to flow in the secondary system, that would ordinarily not result in much incident on the streets, will cause your piston 5/6 to turn into a missle.

[alexx03]

okay thanks guys
i didnt mean to come off as a dick or anything but i dont like when people say"just do this" without explaining why or why i shouldn't do it the way i had.
its why i made this thread,i wasnt doubting anyone i just like explanations to go along with the suggestions.
the way i took my car to the track is the way i DD it,i wasnt even suppose to track that day i was just watching some friends and then decided to join in since there was only about 6-7 cars for the entire event.

so JB4 map 2 or map 5 NO METH? what would be better.

again i wasnt trying to come off as rude or anything i just like when people explain,once again im sorry!

[Mavus]

Originally Posted by alexx03

okay thanks guys
i didnt mean to come off as a dick or anything but i dont like when people say"just do this" without explaining why or why i shouldn't do it the way i had.
its why i made this thread,i wasnt doubting anyone i just like explanations to go along with the suggestions.
the way i took my car to the track is the way i DD it,i wasnt even suppose to track that day i was just watching some friends and then decided to join in since there was only about 6-7 cars for the entire event.

so JB4 map 2 or map 5 NO METH? what would be better.

again i wasnt trying to come off as rude or anything i just like when people explain,once again im sorry!

no issues ... folks that respond in this section have significant experience and always try to help

[fastaction]

power should always be the least of concern for track novices, tires/brakes/fluid should be the most important considerations. Definitely invest in some dedicated track pads to switch out for track days.

[alexx03]

Originally Posted by fastaction

power should always be the least of concern for track novices, tires/brakes/fluid should be the most important considerations. Definitely invest in some dedicated track pads to switch out for track days.

yes i understand, like i said thats the setup i daily drive and was just going up to watch my friends but since there werent many cars i thought no better chance for a first time then now.
next time i will deffinitley have track pads,fluid and my car on a different setup power wise.
are OEM pads no good for the track is that why everyone is telling me to switch out for the track?
i have no problem selling the brand new OEM pads i have for better ones but i was hoping i can use the same pad for DD and track.