[ynguldyn]

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

Remove Smart and the Mercedes-Benz Sprinter and it is a different story.
BMW don't include MINI and Rolls-Royce.

Again September a different story for other markets.

Two words: lipstick, pig.

[SickFinga]

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

Remove Smart and the Mercedes-Benz Sprinter and it is a different story.
BMW don't include MINI and Rolls-Royce.

Again September a different story for other markets.

Check your reports again, cause it does not include smart, Sprinter, Metris nor Freightliner.

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by Bosozoku

Two words and a number: "Tesla Model 3".

When I see comments like this.... all I can think is.. Let me know when it's * actually on the market * and not a pipe dream ... Just because there are orders means very little- Tesla has barely begun to demonstrating that it's capable of mass production anywhere near the scale of the order list....


The automaker delivered approximately 24,500 vehicles in the third quarter, which is a record for the California-based company. That's roughly 10,000 more vehicles than last quarter

https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/t...rly-sales-yet/

and If I am not in error.. I believe they have received many concessions from the US EPA/DOT/NHTSA to date for their low production models and they most certainly will be able to get these concessions for mass produced models..

As of this article.. they can't even sell in all 50 states..

http://www.sfgate.com/business/artic...ut-6113145.php

[AndreyATC]

Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster

Let us know when it's * actually on the market * and not a pipe dream ... Just because there are orders means very little- Tesla hasn't come close to demonstrating it's capable of mass production anywhere near the scale of the order list

There are tons of M2 orders and yet BMW isn't filling all of them....

The automaker delivered approximately 24,500 vehicles in the third quarter, which is a record for the California-based company. That's roughly 10,000 more vehicles than last quarter

https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/t...rly-sales-yet/

The sad part is, you'll see more and more of these type of decrease-sale reports from BMW especially the minute Model 3 rolls out off assembly line.
And if that's not enough, SUV on model 3 platform will make sure that market takes a dive as well
I'm surprised naysayers are still doubting Tesla
Maybe pipe dream is not what you think it is

[MilehighM3]

Originally Posted by username8701

Revisit your maintenance policy. If BMW cannot afford to pay for Bmws maintenance like it used to, of course there would be a steady decline in sales.

BMW does still pay for maintenance! You're just spouting off misinformation. The '17 models will not include brakes and wipers, but it's still more inclusive than any other manufacturer, at no cost. For around $600 you can have the other items included in the maintenance program. Since the '17 models are still limited, that doesn't account for the decline in sales numbers, as you claim. However the increase in pre-owned sales does. That's largely in part to huge lease numbers in the past 2-3 years. The number of lease returns is off the charts, and that always hurts new vehicle sales in a price driven economy. Given the shit show of an election we have coming up, it's no surprise people are cutting back.

[hellrotm]

Originally Posted by BlackJetE90

Mercedes and Audi are still setting sales records through out the year.

Mercedes has been increasing sales month to month over last year, they are just flat out moving a lot more cars than BMW.

BMW Sept - 25,389
Mercedes Sept - 29,500

BMW year - 230,133
Mercedes year - 249,204

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

Remove Smart and the Mercedes-Benz Sprinter and it is a different story.
BMW don't include MINI and Rolls-Royce.

Again September a different story for other markets.

Originally Posted by ynguldyn

Two words: lipstick, pig.

Scott those numbers do not include Smart and Sprinter.

Originally Posted by SickFinga

Check your reports again, cause it does not include smart, Sprinter, Metris nor Freightliner.

Thank you.

If Scott wants the numbers that include Smart and Sprinter, here they are...

Sept - 33,075
Year - 278,404

[hellrotm]

Originally Posted by AndreyATC

The sad part is, you'll see more and more of these type of decrease-sale reports from BMW especially the minute Model 3 rolls out off assembly line.
And if that's not enough, SUV on model 3 platform will make sure that market takes a dive as well
I'm surprised naysayers are still doubting Tesla
Maybe pipe dream is not what you think it is

It will be interesting to see what happens to Telsa's market share, when the big boys enter the electric car market with more mainstream products...aka Mercedes, Audi, BMW, Porsche. Just read an article today BMW plans to produce an all-electric X3 to be released in 2019. Also planning on an all electric Mini. Guessed they realized their quirky little i3 isn't what they planned.

[bavarian19]

BMW used to offer a decent performance/luxury car at a respectable price. They have forced the performance side to VERY high price points in their respective segments (40i and M models in the 3/4). The value AND sportiness are both gone.

While I long for an M car, the rest of the lineup is gray and dull to me. BMW needs to offer something genuinely exciting at a respectable price point to bring me back.

Another interesting point: Anyone notice how the BMW 328 is also one of the cars that is most expensive to keep on the road long term?

[thecurryman]

Originally Posted by MilehighM3

BMW does still pay for maintenance! You're just spouting off misinformation. The '17 models will not include brakes and wipers, but it's still more inclusive than any other manufacturer, at no cost. For around $600 you can have the other items included in the maintenance program. Since the '17 models are still limited, that doesn't account for the decline in sales numbers, as you claim. However the increase in pre-owned sales does. That's largely in part to huge lease numbers in the past 2-3 years. The number of lease returns is off the charts, and that always hurts new vehicle sales in a price driven economy. Given the shit show of an election we have coming up, it's no surprise people are cutting back.

The new maintenance plan is a full year shorter (3yr 36k mile) and does not include brakes (biggest maintaince repair), wipers (seriously? it costs like nothing for BMW to include that), and the clutch (also large repair cost). The maintenance plan is no longer transferable even if the car is within the year/mile limit.
"For around $600"- why should I pay $600 on top of my car's selling price just to have a maintenance plan that was longer and more inclusive?

We may/may not ever know the impact of the maintenance plan change on sales numbers, but I do know it has lowered brand perception across all consumers. People used to tell me they bought BMW b/c of the maintenance plan since Audi or MB weren't as good, but now? well not so much.

[AndreyATC]

Originally Posted by BlackJetE90

It will be interesting to see what happens to Telsa's market share, when the big boys enter the electric car market with more mainstream products...aka Mercedes, Audi, BMW, Porsche. Just read an article today BMW plans to produce an all-electric X3 to be released in 2019. Also planning on an all electric Mini. Guessed they realized their quirky little i3 isn't what they planned.

I think there is enough room for everyone

However, the fact that other Brands are coming out with their EVs doesn't necessarily mean they will "mass" produce them.
I hope, i'm wrong, and EVs are not coming out just so they can check off their list or do it for bragging rights
Competition is great
Joined effort will make EV reality

[Germanauto]

Originally Posted by bavarian19

BMW used to offer a decent performance/luxury car at a respectable price. They have forced the performance side to VERY high price points in their respective segments (40i and M models in the 3/4). The value AND sportiness are both gone.

While I long for an M car, the rest of the lineup is gray and dull to me. BMW needs to offer something genuinely exciting at a respectable price point to bring me back.

Another interesting point: Anyone notice how the BMW 328 is also one of the cars that is most expensive to keep on the road long term?

I agree, seems like nowadays the only non-M cars that get the blood pumping are the 240, 340, and 440 coupe/Gran Coupe. BMW's performance credentials used to be a lot more accessible in the past; I know because my first Bimmer was an E90 328 sport pkg. which I still have and love dearly. Sure it's a little low on power, but the handling, steering feel, and overall connection to the pavement is something I've never experienced in any BMW since the brand went soft with the E89 Z4 and every subsequent new release thereafter. My E90 even feels more "connected" than any newer Porsche I have driven.

On a side note, the E90's interior is superior to the F30 in quality of materials and build quality. Only the design is a little more dull (mine is flashy though with brown leather and dark wood) and the tech isn't modern. Better car, sure; but a better BMW? Not in a million years. So for what reason would I "upgrade" to an inferior BMW? The brand is losing people like me, the people who made them.

[MilehighM3]

Originally Posted by thecurryman

The new maintenance plan is a full year shorter (3yr 36k mile) and does not include brakes (biggest maintaince repair), wipers (seriously? it costs like nothing for BMW to include that), and the clutch (also large repair cost). The maintenance plan is no longer transferable even if the car is within the year/mile limit.
"For around $600"- why should I pay $600 on top of my car's selling price just to have a maintenance plan that was longer and more inclusive?

We may/may not ever know the impact of the maintenance plan change on sales numbers, but I do know it has lowered brand perception across all consumers. People used to tell me they bought BMW b/c of the maintenance plan since Audi or MB weren't as good, but now? well not so much.

For starters, the clutch is not a maintenance item, but it's covered by the warranty just the same. Maintenance items covered by the plan include items with an interval, not just wearable components. Those who complain about not getting free wipers as part of a vehicle price are foolish. They're cheap and most people in warm climates never even use them! The same type of person finances appliances and landscaping with the price of a new construction home for 30 years. Realistically the brakes often last more than the 36k these days since BMW switched pad compounds to reduce the brake dust, the biggest complaint of most owners the past 10-15 years. On a related note, look at the lease numbers these days- more people lease than ever and keep the vehicle 3 years or less with a pull ahead. These owners are not effected by he change. The maintenance plan hasn't transferred with the owner since a retail date of about 7/15, iirc, but is easily transferred at the dealers for about $400. If that's too much for a potential client who buys a car outside of a BMW dealer because they got a "better price", then they should ask themselves just how much that maintenance will cost elsewhere while they own the vehicle? Then perhaps they'll start to learn the difference between value and price. It's still the best maintenance plan associated with a new vehicle these days, and that's a fact.

[ynguldyn]

Let me try and sum it up in more than the two words I've already said:

Relative to the wider market, BMW used to be a niche player: it catered to the people who were willing to pay extra for performance without compromising comfort. This was not a small niche by any measure, but at some point BMW decided that they could get a bigger piece of the pie. So they went for the rest of the luxury market. However, after a relatively brief success they are now discovering that others are still better than they are at that game, while, looking back, they see that their former loyal customers have given up and also moved on to other brands.

Or, in other words, BMW let go of the bird in hand to chase whatever flying pigs they were seeing in the sky. They just didn't know that pigs don't fly.