[fijigabe0]

remember, in the US, BMW's are strictly luxury cars. thus, they won't diminish their reputation with what may be seen as a "non-luxury" engine choice. why don't we get 320's and very few diesel engines in the states? beyond the fact that they'd have to get them certified for use in the US, they're not seen as "luxury" engines.

the next 3 series will show up here as either a 325 or 328, boasting a turbo 4-banger, generating as much power as the current engine. however, unless and until BMW can move 4-bangers as luxury engines in the US, we won't see them here (my opinion).

[d3l0n]

That may just work.. inline 3 cylinder turbo or biturbo engine! not bad... we gotta economize here folks.. thats gone be the hotest thing "gas milage" before we end up having wars over gas/energy.. (oh wait.. that already started smh)

[footie]

The problem with the States is their arrogance to all things environmental, the majority don't think that the world's well being has anything to do with them. (Sorry but this it the truth)

The US produce more greenhouse gases than anyone else, probably close to a quarter. There has to be a shift in their thinking and adopt these exciting new engine concept or fosel fuels will be a thing of past and California will be under 10ft of water due to the melting of the polar ice caps which wouldn't actual be a bad idea. No more Sticky.

[fijigabe0]

ahh, how to respond... well, let's go bit by bit.

Originally Posted by footie

The problem with the States is their arrogance to all things environmental

Well, Europe's problem is their arrogance in thinking they're better than everyone. want to make a stupid comment, i'll respond with an equally stupid one. before you start running your mouth talking about the US's arrogance, why don't you look in the mirror.

Originally Posted by footie

The majority don't think that the world's well being has anything to do with them. (Sorry but this it the truth)

I would LOVE to see any sort of polling or citation for this comment. on the other hand, let's look at some real numbers:

According to Rasmussen Polling, "64% of voters think global warming is at least a somewhat serious problem, with 41% saying it is Very Serious."

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/publ...arming_dangers

According to Gallup's polling numbers: "Six in 10 Americans indicate that they are highly worried about global warming, including 34% who are worried 'a great deal' and 26% "a fair amount.'"

Now, i'll admit that the numbers presented in the article are down from previous years, however, your argument that "a majority" don't think the world's well being has anything to do with them is clearly wrong.

additionally, keep in mind that these numbers are being posted after one of the COLDEST winters in decades. don't believe me, check here:

http://www.google.com/search?q=winte...ient=firefox-a

Now, let's keep going:

Originally Posted by footie

The US produce more greenhouse gases than anyone else, probably close to a quarter.

WRONG -

check here: http://www.greenbiz.com/news/2009/02...2-rise-exports

and here: http://www.usatoday.com/weather/clim...a-energy_N.htm

Originally Posted by footie

There has to be a shift in their thinking and adopt these exciting new engine concept or fosel [sic] fuels will be a thing of past and California will be under 10ft of water due to the melting of the polar ice caps which wouldn't actual be a bad idea. No more Sticky.

Now, to say that these new engines aren't exciting is missing my point. my point is that given that in the US, BMW is a luxury car manufacturer first, and a performance car manufacturer second, these engines aren't likely to appear in the US for some time. that's not to say that a budget Z2 or 1 series won't see them, but that they'll show up in the next gen 3 series sold stateside is probably not going to happen. hell, we can't get a turbo 4-cylinder, or a proper diesel (that's affordable to the masses - 335d is quite proper). this is just MY opinion, based on my observations of people's purchasing tastes (lots of 525's and 528's in my area, and those must be DOGS to drive, since my wife's 328i is peppy, and my X3 3.0si is, too - but they have far superior power/weigh ratios than the 5's).

I will admit there is skepticism in the US relating to global warming, and whether it's a man-assisted phenomenon, or whether we are just undergoing a cyclical change in weather patterns. however, considering the fact that there isn't even universal agreement between climateologists or other scientists, i'll stay away from Al Gore's Kool-Aid until there's some more research done.

[ptack]

Originally Posted by footie

The problem with the States is their arrogance to all things environmental, the majority don't think that the world's well being has anything to do with them. (Sorry but this it the truth)

The US produce more greenhouse gases than anyone else, probably close to a quarter. There has to be a shift in their thinking and adopt these exciting new engine concept or fosel fuels will be a thing of past and California will be under 10ft of water due to the melting of the polar ice caps which wouldn't actual be a bad idea. No more Sticky.

So if California is under 10 feet of water where will you be, treading water?

[footie]

Clearly I have hit a nerve.

I don't doubt your sincerity and you maybe do feel the way you are writing here but it's not you (as a country) who is almost exclusively driving small capacity diesels that deliver up to 50mpg. In Europe diesels account for close on 60% of all new sales and this has been increasing year on year. Where as America on a whole regard diesel as a dirty fuel that is only suitable for truck and continue to drive v8 large capacity motors that are not measured in length by meters but in zip codes.

I don't doubt that a lot of your fellow American are concerned about global warming but chose not to scale down in car size, you could argue that the US government are to blame, what with fuel prices that are dramatically cheaper than Europe, with cheap fuel what is the incentive for down sizing and looking for a more economical option.

I think Jay Leno said it best when he was on Topgear, 'people drive Prius to let everyone know the good work they are going anonymously',maybe I am misunderstanding those comments but to me that sounds like they are only driving one to look good among their equals.

BTW, here's the top 20 countries for CO2 emissions

1. China 6017.69
2. United States 5902.75
3. Russia 1704.36
4. India 1293.17
5. Japan 1246.76
6. Germany 857.60
7. Canada 614.33
8. United Kingdom 585.71
9. South Korea 514.53
10. Iran 471.48
11. Italy 468.19
12. South Africa 443.58
13. Mexico 435.60
14. Saudi Arabia 424.08
15. France 417.75
16. Australia 417.06
17. Brazil 377.24
18. Spain 372.61
19. Ukraine 328.72
20. Poland 303.42

Even if you add all of the European countries on this list together we are still less than the USofA, try 3750 compared to 5900.

You yourself admit that you doubt BMW would be able to sell a 4 cylinder BMW never mind a 3 cylinder one so by your own admission you in a way are agreeing with me that Americans don't think that improving the environment is up to them, well not at the expense of looking good.

Get on board with the program people and accept that the only way we can ever hope to keep our sportscars for the weekend is to drive something very economical throughout the rest of the week.

Sorry, I will get off my soapbox now.

[footie]

Originally Posted by ptack

So if California is under 10 feet of water where will you be, treading water?

That was only a joke directed at the continuing problem of sticky i.e. the new BMW website being advertised here all of the time. No SoCal no sticky.

Bad joke I know.

[amsfoto]

Speaking for many younger people in my generation, I have to agree that the US has a big problem. But, the problem lies in the older generations who are stuck in their ways and hate anything that isn't American. Just the other day I was having dinner with relatives and the topic of my choice of music and fashion came up. I mentioned European culture, fashion, and the way of life was something that I admired. Everyone at the table got all up in arms about how anything European is bad and I shouldn't look up to Europeans...bla bla bla. It's really sad.

Most Americans are self absorbed rednecks at heart, and until these generations that are so stuck in their ways die off nothing is going to change. I am excited by new technologies and change, I would welcome lighter, smaller, more nimble automobiles that are better for our environment, but the older crowd in the US that grew up with huge steel boats with V8's aren't going to accept these changes.

It's sad but it's the truth...people are stubborn by nature, and seeing as how the US is a relatively new country, we have a lot of learning and adjusting to do. I don't think that we are the "best", we are far from it. The USA is like the out of control teenager who thinks he knows what's best for himself and everyone around him. Sometimes I'm ashamed to be part of this agenda.

[d3l0n]

Originally Posted by amsfoto

Speaking for many younger people in my generation, I have to agree that the US has a big problem. But, the problem lies in the older generations who are stuck in their ways and hate anything that isn't American. Just the other day I was having dinner with relatives and the topic of my choice of music and fashion came up. I mentioned European culture, fashion, and the way of life was something that I admired. Everyone at the table got all up in arms about how anything European is bad and I shouldn't look up to Europeans...bla bla bla. It's really sad.

Most Americans are self absorbed rednecks at heart, and until these generations that are so stuck in their ways die off nothing is going to change. I am excited by new technologies and change, I would welcome lighter, smaller, more nimble automobiles that are better for our environment, but the older crowd in the US that grew up with huge steel boats with V8's aren't going to accept these changes.

It's sad but it's the truth...people are stubborn by nature, and seeing as how the US is a relatively new country, we have a lot of learning and adjusting to do. I don't think that we are the "best", we are far from it. The USA is like the out of control teenager who thinks he knows what's best for himself and everyone around him. Sometimes I'm ashamed to be part of this agenda.

I have to agree

[TK-421]

We are fat Americans, face it. We love our high calorie/cholesterol foods and our big, low mpg engines

[fijigabe0]

while i agree with you, that the US contributes greatly to the problems facing the world, the way you presented your argument was ridiculous. you quoted absolutely no one, on your way to bashing the US, and the "facts" you presented were, for the most part, wrong. The US may produce more than its fair share of carbon, but a large percentage of the population at least believes it's a problem.

now, to say that many Prius owners buy their cars to be seen in them, again, leads me to the question: where do you get your information? a comedian like Jay Leno? hardly a source of credible information. i think, and i have no information to back me up, other than my own observations, that most Prius owners are driving around in them because they believe: (1) they are saving on fuel and (2) they are saving the earth. there are some who fall into category (3), which is those who love producing Smug, and smelling their own farts, but i believe them to be the minority. they are still stuck in their Cadillac Escalades and Lincoln Navigators (or 5-series & E-Classes, etc...)

Now, my point on the 4-cylinder engines was that until BMW designed a way to make 4-cylinder engines that appealed to American consumers, they realized it was better to NOT offer the engine at all, instead focusing on economical 6-cylinder engines. now that BMW has developed the way to produce 4-bangers that Americans will want, while still preserving the "luxury" appearance that BMW has in this country, then we're talking. however, a 3-cylinder engine will be a tough sell here in the US.

if you want to make sure you can continue driving your sporty BMW, listen to the US market. they only make up 39% of BMW's global sales... think about what BMW would be, if they didn't sell here.

[Robert]

Originally Posted by aem kei

Euh... news flash.

The world is more than just the United States

And yes, Europe is on that part quite innovative; But the American people are asking for smaller more economical cars. so I think it could happen soon.
also because it goes all the way up to the x25i.

Look what Ford is doing with the Ford Ka, the smallest car from the brand is going to the states, like Smart, Mini,...

Doesn't BMW sell more cars in the states? They will be fools to ignore consumer wants. Unless the consumer needs trend for smaller car there's no way BMW will offer small engines here. That's the only way.

[footie]

Originally Posted by fijigabe0

while i agree with you, that the US contributes greatly to the problems facing the world, the way you presented your argument was ridiculous. you quoted absolutely no one, on your way to bashing the US, and the "facts" you presented were, for the most part, wrong. The US may produce more than its fair share of carbon, but a large percentage of the population at least believes it's a problem.

now, to say that many Prius owners buy their cars to be seen in them, again, leads me to the question: where do you get your information? a comedian like Jay Leno? hardly a source of credible information. i think, and i have no information to back me up, other than my own observations, that most Prius owners are driving around in them because they believe: (1) they are saving on fuel and (2) they are saving the earth. there are some who fall into category (3), which is those who love producing Smug, and smelling their own farts, but i believe them to be the minority. they are still stuck in their Cadillac Escalades and Lincoln Navigators (or 5-series & E-Classes, etc...)

OK, maybe I wasn't very diplomatic in my approach but the facts still remain to be true, the USA after China is the bigger offender for CO2 emissions and it is not solely down to population, the UK as an example has a fifth of the population of the USA but produce a tenth of the emissions.

Americans in general are very patriotic, preferring to buy home grown where ever possible and I admire that, the problem is that for one reason or another they demand more for their money and generally get it. Their cars are cheaper than Europe (even examples made here) and they get better warranties, it's that bang for your buck philosophy which not only applies to performance but quantity as well, somehow bigger is always better.

You may shrug off Leno's comments as BS but I believe that there is a definite number of owners that buy them to look good, a PR stunt instead of genuine care, especially among the rich. Cars like the Prius do more long term damage to the environment than anything, the manufacture and disposal of these batteries are far worse than an efficient petrol or diesel engine so why produce them. The simple answer is PR, it looks good to the public of which the majority know very little about their long term effects.

Audi's CEO has openly admitted that Hybrids are not as efficient as diesels but they are forced to develop them to keep up with the Jones so to speak. If Toyota, Honda, etc have them then so must they and I bet BMW and Mercedes feel the exact same way.

Originally Posted by fijigabe0

Now, my point on the 4-cylinder engines was that until BMW designed a way to make 4-cylinder engines that appealed to American consumers, they realized it was better to NOT offer the engine at all, instead focusing on economical 6-cylinder engines. now that BMW has developed the way to produce 4-bangers that Americans will want, while still preserving the "luxury" appearance that BMW has in this country, then we're talking. however, a 3-cylinder engine will be a tough sell here in the US.

if you want to make sure you can continue driving your sporty BMW, listen to the US market. they only make up 39% of BMW's global sales... think about what BMW would be, if they didn't sell here.

I bet you anything that US brand dealers will have a field day when BMW start introducing 4 cylinder engined cars, they will use the engine size of their cars to look down on BMW products. It's that bigger is better philosophy and I bet it will work for a while until the US consumer finally sees sense that it's not how big it is but how you use it, now where have I heard that one before. I can just see BMW's ad campaign for these smaller engines.

[fijigabe0]

Originally Posted by footie

I bet you anything that US brand dealers will have a field day when BMW start introducing 4 cylinder engined cars, they will use the engine size of their cars to look down on BMW products. It's that bigger is better philosophy and I bet it will work for a while until the US consumer finally sees sense that it's not how big it is but how you use it, now where have I heard that one before. I can just see BMW's ad campaign for these smaller engines.

I'll bet you are incorrect on that. comparable to BMW are the following manufacturers in the US:

Acura
Audi
Infiniti
Lexus
Mercedes

of those manufacturers, Acura & Audi continue to make 4-cylinder competitors to the BMW, with no negative feedback, in fact, Acura's TSX (the Global Honda Accord) uses a NA 4-cylinder.

Audi's 2.0T is the backbone of the A4, whether in Quattro trim or not.

Mercedes, until the recent redesign of the C class, had a supercharged 4-cylinder as their main engine (C230)

Infiniti offers one engine, the 3.7L V6, in their G37. you can call it a poor man's 335. Lexus offers a 2.5L V6 in their IS250, which produces just 204hp.

in all of these cases, if BMW puts a good turbo 4-cylinder against the competition, i have no doubt it'll win, and win going away. with the torque numbers they've demonstrated from the 3.0TT, and the number they're talking about from the 4-cylinders, they've got nothing to fear. 4-cylinders are a known commodity here in the US. they're viewed as "economical" engines, which, with gas prices as unstable as they are today, is a good thing.

for the 3d or 4th time, 4-cylinders are good! i don't think the 3-cylinders will sell well here.