[Neusser]

Originally Posted by Equilibrandt

Honestly, I don't get the 340i take at all.

Find me a sedan that could compete with an M340i... most of the MBs are 4 cyl AMGs, an Audi S3/RS3? A Cadillac CT4-V non-Blackwing, an Acura TLX Type S?

These M340i are pretty serious performance sedans and definitely deserve the M badging, as it's becoming more and more well-known that an M-Lite is comparable to a previous-gen M3 on every freeway and on-ramp at semi-safe and semi-legal speeds. Performance cars deserve performance parts and performance names, which is why the jump from a 330i to an M340i is a world of difference.

No G20 M340i is eating a prospective G80 M3 owner's lunch; the used F80 market, however, is probably getting munched. And that's the exact point: if a G20 B58 can dissuade someone from getting an F80 instead, it deserves an M badge.

The only difference between the M340 and the next model down is the engine.

The M-lites run the M-Sport suspensions. That said, M is nothing more than an in-house tuner. Different levels of kit for different budgets--something you would think "enthusiasts" would celebrate.

[Kaizer84]

Originally Posted by Equilibrandt

Honestly, I don't get the 340i take at all.

Find me a sedan that could compete with an M340i... most of the MBs are 4 cyl AMGs, an Audi S3/RS3? A Cadillac CT4-V non-Blackwing, an Acura TLX Type S?

These M340i are pretty serious performance sedans and definitely deserve the M badging, as it's becoming more and more well-known that an M-Lite is comparable to a previous-gen M3 on every freeway and on-ramp at semi-safe and semi-legal speeds. Performance cars deserve performance parts and performance names, which is why the jump from a 330i to an M340i is a world of difference.

No G20 M340i is eating a prospective G80 M3 owner's lunch; the used F80 market, however, is probably getting munched. And that's the exact point: if a G20 B58 can dissuade someone from getting an F80 instead, it deserves an M badge.

Umm so with that same mindset, an E9X 335 of yesteryear which were absolute rockets when they came out and clearly faster than E46 M3’s should have been called M335i’s??? Because they were munching on the previous gen M car, lol. Funny take but try again. Again the point is why M340 and not 340 etc.

Like I previously stated. Put an M badge on everything. They should make M328’s and M330’s. Why not.

[wtwo3]

Originally Posted by Equilibrandt

Honestly, I don't get the 340i take at all.

Find me a sedan that could compete with an M340i... most of the MBs are 4 cyl AMGs, an Audi S3/RS3? A Cadillac CT4-V non-Blackwing, an Acura TLX Type S?

These M340i are pretty serious performance sedans and definitely deserve the M badging, as it's becoming more and more well-known that an M-Lite is comparable to a previous-gen M3 on every freeway and on-ramp at semi-safe and semi-legal speeds. Performance cars deserve performance parts and performance names, which is why the jump from a 330i to an M340i is a world of difference.

No G20 M340i is eating a prospective G80 M3 owner's lunch; the used F80 market, however, is probably getting munched. And that's the exact point: if a G20 B58 can dissuade someone from getting an F80 instead, it deserves an M badge.

I agreed with your original take of the pearl clutching going on... that's pretty natural and not surprising.

But I can't say I agree with this take. As a former m340i owner, saying something is "deserving" of the M badge outside of marketing strategy is much more nuanced than simply cramming a larger engine into it and slapping an m badge on it. That's essentially what's happening here... the m340i is almost literally a 330i with a b58. It's got the same suspension, brakes, etc as the 330i. Outside of an LSD and the b58, it's the same car. The M3 on the other hand has a totally different suspension setup, brakes, cooling, etc. Take an m340i to the track and after a few hot laps you'll get glazed brakes and/or heat soak. Take an M3 to the track and it'll happily give you a full day's worth of track time. They're totally different machines.

I suspect people going from an f80 to a g20 m340i are doing so not because it's a comparable driving experience (because outside of perhaps straight-line spreadsheet figures, they're nothing alike) but rather because they want something more modern without paying for the g80 premium.

All this is to say, yes BMW is watering down their performance brand.... but so is everyone else (amg and audi etc). These are mass market cars and these automakers are in the business of making money. So if slapping an m sport badge on a 330i will help make more money, better believe BMW is going after that... that's where the bread and butter is anyway.

[Equilibrandt]

b

Originally Posted by wtwo3

All this is to say, yes BMW is watering down their performance brand.... but so is everyone else (amg and audi etc). These are mass market cars and these automakers are in the business of making money. So if slapping an m sport badge on a 330i will help make more money, better believe BMW is going after that... that's where the bread and butter is anyway.

It's logical, but I don't see the merit in that: no one in the world thinks a 330i is a sports car; therefore, its nonsensical to badge it as it wouldn't drive revenue up.

In comparison, the M340i is WIDELY lauded worldwide as one of the best modern sports sedans sub-75k; maybe even the best, judging by how it ranked last year in its segment. Meaning that it'll absolutely work any average road-going car, has sportier additives, and isn't the blatantly unremarkable 330i. Which makes it quite logical that they'd M badge it, which is why I'll always argue that it's deserved.

Where I can see all of your logic is with the modern M235i Gran Coupe. Now that's a great dead horse to beat: it's unremarkable, ugly, and slow, yet with enough gloss black, they M badged it. But to repeatedly freak out about every M-Lite (M240i, M340i, M440i, etc) that isn't the M235i is quite silly to me because by all modern rights and regards, they're sports cars a full step above the average base BMW or Honda Civic.

Originally Posted by Kaizer84

Umm so with that same mindset, an E9X 335 of yesteryear which were absolute rockets when they came out and clearly faster than E46 M3’s should have been called M335i’s??? Because they were munching on the previous gen M car, lol. Funny take but try again. Again the point is why M340 and not 340 etc.

Like I previously stated. Put an M badge on everything. They should make M328’s and M330’s. Why not.

Well, given that no one was rushing to a dealer to buy an E90-gen 335 over the E46 M3, I'd say no, but I can see what you're fishing for. This new name-scheme only fits the new-school model/line up they do these days: the base 330i, a serious upgrade to the M340i, and then a serious upgrade to the M3. And each of those "big" upgrades are denoted by a large engine or displacement change, larger brakes, sportier diffs, altered steering/suspension/exhaust modes and more aggressive styling. All of which are parts of a sports car. An //M.

[Neusser]

Originally Posted by Equilibrandt

and isn't the remotely unremarkable 330i.

Nonsense. Aside from the engine, it is the same car if the 330 is equipped with the M-Sport pack.


That said, the post you are responding to is also nonsense. M produces upgraded parts and systems for BMW cars. That's it. That is M.

Anything M has produced deserves an M badge.

[wtwo3]

Originally Posted by Equilibrandt

no one in the world thinks a 330i is a sports car;

You'd be surprised

[wtwo3]

Originally Posted by Neusser

Nonsense. Aside from the engine, it is the same car if the 330 is equipped with the M-Sport pack.


That said, the post you are responding to is also nonsense. M produces upgraded parts and systems for BMW cars. That's it. That is M.

Anything M has produced deserves an M badge.

Only nonsense posts call other posts nonsense

[BMWCCA1]

Originally Posted by Neusser

Nonsense. Aside from the engine . . .

[Equilibrandt]

Originally Posted by Neusser

Nonsense. Aside from the engine, it is the same car if the 330 is equipped with the M-Sport pack.

This has always been an intriguing take, to me. At what point would the car classify as a deserved upgrade to new badging?

Going from a B48 single-turbo i4 to a B50 single-turbo i6, going from 302/332 to 382/369 hp/tq, bigger oil cooler and bigger brake rotors with the ZTK M340i that isn't given by the ZMP M-Sport on the 330i, the 2T4 "M Sport Diff" that isn't offered on the 330i, and any other software changes that I'm almost certain are reserved the the M340i.

Sure the 704 M Sport Suspension or 2VF Adaptive are offered on both. But the whole idea that the M Sport package makes a 330i anything even remotely close to an M340i is asinine, imo.

[Neusser]

Originally Posted by Equilibrandt

This has always been an intriguing take, to me. At what point would the car classify as a deserved upgrade to new badging?

Going from a B48 single-turbo i4 to a B50 single-turbo i6, going from 302/332 to 382/369 hp/tq, bigger oil cooler and bigger brake rotors with the ZTK M340i that isn't given by the ZMP M-Sport on the 330i, the 2T4 "M Sport Diff" that isn't offered on the 330i, and any other software changes that I'm almost certain are reserved the the M340i.

Sure the 704 M Sport Suspension or 2VF Adaptive are offered on both. But the whole idea that the M Sport package makes a 330i anything even remotely close to an M340i is asinine, imo.

It isn't that intriguing if you look into the builds and spec sheets.

Take my 540: with the M kit it has the same suspension as the M550, with the exception of adaptive dampers (which are not the enthusiast choice anyways). It also has the same brake setup (Brembo, same diameter).

There are no differences between the cars other than the engine, and the V8 is nose heavy.

Prior to the M-Performance line, BMW was simply offering the Power and Sound kit to compete with the AMG lites of the world (see the previous 340i).

I have no issue with the badges, as previously stated. But the idea that a 330i is worlds apart from an M340 is silly. The only real difference is speed. Put them both on a twisty Alpine road over here and the 330 would be stuck to the 340's rear end.

If we really want to nitpick, we could even point out that US and UK cars get softer suspensions than their Euro counterparts. I guess that makes the Anglo world's BMWs much less sporting.

[MADBMWX5MC]

Originally Posted by Car-Addicted

Carbon roofs on faux M cars, what's next M SUV's? Oh Snap

Ha! That's funny right there...

[JMD]

Guys, BMW is in the business of producing products its customers will purchase! They will do whatever they need to continue to hold or gain market share! This we all can believe in. So, if it takes adding a CF roof to a non-M car to increase its appeal to potential buyers, they'll do it in a heartbeat! Oh wait, they've already done that.

That said, and case in point, why else would an M550 be faster to 60mph than an F10 M5,...and every single BMW that was produced alone side or prior to the F10 M5? And get this, the M550 has no carbon fiber seat backs, no carbon fiber roof, or even F10 M5 suspension tuning,...heck, it doesn't even has F90 M5 suspension tuning.

So, by adding the CF roof to a non-M car, BMW is simply spicing up the lineup as much as the they see fit and clearing out the parts bin. So, trust me, they are not too worried about hurting the feelings of owners that bought last generation's M car of any model.

Lastly,...just think, the upcoming Hybrid M5 will have blistering performance not seen from a stock BMW of any generation, yet its successor, the full electric version of the M5,..and possibly the BEV M3 will leave the G90 Hybrid M5 sitting at the traffic light. That's my prediction,...and I'm time will prove this post correct.

I'm willing to bet the first all-electric BMW M5 will crack the 1000Hp mark,...and the CS version may even be around the 1100-1200Hp mark. Heck, the BEV M3 will most likely have some 700-800hp.

That said, is there anyone here that thinks BMW is going to allow Tesla to have all that sub 3-sec glory to itself? Nope,...I hardly doubt it. BMW is simply making advance pre-sales towards getting to that 1000Hp+ full electric BMW ///M car.

[BRAKE!]

I mean think about the origins - the carbon roof was a signature item on an e46 M3 CSL, then it became an option on the “regular” e92 m3 which didn’t make the CSL badge any less special.

The CSL paved the way for next BMWs to get better. As the carbon roof now has been around for 20 years, it makes sense that it’s being integrated to other models. There are other ways that BMW can innovate to make their M cars special and I’m sure they are working on it.

If you’re concerned about how blurring the lines between M and M-lite may look to the layman, don’t waste your time. I have found that they can’t even tell the difference between a Ferrari and a Corvette. To them it’s a “red car.” They won’t know the difference (or care). Just FYI.

[Neusser]

Originally Posted by JMD

Guys, BMW is in the business of producing products its customers will purchase! They will do whatever they need to continue to hold or gain market share! This we all can believe in. So, if it takes adding a CF roof to a non-M car to increase its appeal to potential buyers, they'll do it in a heartbeat! Oh wait, they've already done that.

That said, and case in point, why else would an M550 be faster to 60mph than an F10 M5,...and every single BMW that was produced alone side or prior to the F10 M5? And get this, the M550 has no carbon fiber seat backs, no carbon fiber roof, or even F10 M5 suspension tuning,...heck, it doesn't even has F90 M5 suspension tuning.

So, by adding the CF roof to a non-M car, BMW is simply spicing up the lineup as much as the they see fit and clearing out the parts bin. So, trust me, they are not too worried about hurting the feelings of owners that bought last generation's M car of any model.

Lastly,...just think, the upcoming Hybrid M5 will have blistering performance not seen from a stock BMW of any generation, yet its successor, the full electric version of the M5,..and possibly the BEV M3 will leave the G90 Hybrid M5 sitting at the traffic light. That's my prediction,...and I'm time will prove this post correct.

I'm willing to bet the first all-electric BMW M5 will crack the 1000Hp mark,...and the CS version may even be around the 1100-1200Hp mark. Heck, the BEV M3 will most likely have some 700-800hp.

That said, is there anyone here that thinks BMW is going to allow Tesla to have all that sub 3-sec glory to itself? Nope,...I hardly doubt it. BMW is simply making advance pre-sales towards getting to that 1000Hp+ full electric BMW ///M car.

BMW just announced that they are not phasing out gas engines and that they will move toward substantial investment in hydrogen.

Electric cars are a joke, and nothing but a bridge to no car ownership whatsoever.

[Chihuahua]

Originally Posted by Neusser

BMW just announced that they are not phasing out gas engines and that they will move toward substantial investment in hydrogen.

Electric cars are a joke, and nothing but a bridge to no car ownership whatsoever.

Source? Not flaming, genuinely curious. Thanks.

[JMD]

Originally Posted by Neusser

BMW just announced that they are not phasing out gas engines and that they will move toward substantial investment in hydrogen.

...after the first accident where a hydrogen fuel car explodes,...that'll be the end of that!

Electric cars are a joke, and nothing but a bridge to no car ownership whatsoever.

A joke to some,...a viable means of transportation for many!

Some one hundred and 5 years ago,...a farmer stood at the edge of his corn field,...during one of his many 3 minute breaks of plowing with his trusty old mules! The proud farmer just stood there and thought,..."that contraption they call a 'Tractor' is a joke Betsy,...c'mon, lets get back to work so we can finish before sun down,...you know we have to start on that back 40 tomorrow!"

So, yeah, electric cars are a joke and that's why everyone with an electric car laughs out loud every time they drive by gas pumps!

Lastly, fact is, no one is forcing anyone to buy anything be it gas, diesel, electric or even hydrogen! Anyone can walk to wherever it is they need to go,...or use taxi, planes or trains! The choice is theirs.

[Car-Addicted]

Originally Posted by JMD

Lastly, fact is, no one is forcing anyone to buy anything be it gas, diesel, electric or even hydrogen! Anyone can walk to wherever it is they need to go,...or use taxi, planes or trains! The choice is theirs.

What planet are you on? Most of us wouldn't give a dam if you drove a EV. If you can ignore the environmental damage you're doing with your EV, I can ignore the environmental damage I'm doing with my ICE vehicles. Sadly it doesn't stop there. I'm forced to pay for your EV dalliance while the powers that currently be are forcing me to pay more for my non EV's and forcing manufactures into cars no one wants to satisfy legal requirements. CAFE standards are carbon taxes and produce cars and trucks that don't meet buyers demands and are sold at prices that don't fits peoples pocket books.

[10"]

Originally Posted by chris719

Who cares? The CF roof is stupid anyway. No significant benefit and turns out to be a costly disaster when they delaminate after getting rock chips or UV etc. The only interesting CF roof they ever did is the M2 CS true sandwich carbon roof, except their vendor messed that one up so much they won't ever try it again.

This here is the actual point. Bunch of pointless bling!!

[Neusser]

Originally Posted by JMD

A joke to some,...a viable means of transportation for many!

Some one hundred and 5 years ago,...a farmer stood at the edge of his corn field,...during one of his many 3 minute breaks of plowing with his trusty old mules! The proud farmer just stood there and thought,..."that contraption they call a 'Tractor' is a joke Betsy,...c'mon, lets get back to work so we can finish before sun down,...you know we have to start on that back 40 tomorrow!"

So, yeah, electric cars are a joke and that's why everyone with an electric car laughs out loud every time they drive by gas pumps!

Lastly, fact is, no one is forcing anyone to buy anything be it gas, diesel, electric or even hydrogen! Anyone can walk to wherever it is they need to go,...or use taxi, planes or trains! The choice is theirs.

You are free to purchase whatever you want. In fact, I encourage you to purchase an EV; nothing would be more fitting.

[jkoral]

Originally Posted by Neusser

BMW just announced that they are not phasing out gas engines and that they will move toward substantial investment in hydrogen.

Originally Posted by Chihuahua

Source? Not flaming, genuinely curious. Thanks.

Was on the Bimmerpost front page:
https://g80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=2069268

citing source source from:
https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/t...-to-combustion

(At least not phasing out ICE, no mention of hydrogen investment in that article)

[B58-M340iX]

https://www.bmwusa.com/vehicles/bmw-m/models.html

>Ctrl-F, in search box, type M340
>Find entry
>Per BMW, is an M model

Watered down, maybe, but whether we want the M-Performance models to be or not to be M models, BMW M says they are. I don't think your average owner says "M-Lites" are full-M models. I'd agree that "///M" is a bit watered down and future M models should further separate themselves from their 'performance' counterparts. I'd argue that those who know, know, and those who don't, don't care, so just enjoy your car!

[jkoral]

Originally Posted by B58-M340iX

Watered down, maybe, but whether we want the M-Performance models to be or not to be M models, BMW M says they are.

This BMW dealer has a page:

How to Separate a Genuine BMW M Series from the Imposters
https://www.bmwofnorthhaven.com/how-...the-imposters/

IMHO, the VIN number is the definitive. "Manufactured" by BMW AG or BMW M GMBH?

The S engine code has a couple exceptions, notably the 1M with N54 and OG M2 with N55 -- but both cars have VINs that start with WBS.