01-23-2014, 12:08 AM | #1 |
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Loaded M4 vs. base Porsche 911 (991 3.4L Carrera)
There used to be a relatively significant price difference between a previous generation M3 coupe and previous gen 911 (997). By way of example, a somewhat loaded ZCP E92 with MDCT ran in high 60s MSRP, while base 997 ran in mid 80s. The gap was further increased due to the relatively high discounts that could be had for the M3 vs much smaller discounts on a 997.
The picture seems to be different with current gen offerings: based on available numbers for the M4, it will likely touch mid 80s without trying too hard. With most initial purchases expected to be at or near MSRP (above in some cases), the M4 is now firmly in the 991 911 pricing territory. (Porsche pricing assumes moderate performance options, in line with what M4 has to offer) So, a question for those who are actually in the market for a ~85k+ 2+2 coupe, when the hype and dust both settle, which car ends up in the garage? Last edited by PawnStar; 01-23-2014 at 09:50 AM.. |
01-23-2014, 12:22 AM | #2 |
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They're not exactly comparable in price. The M4 starts at $64,200 and the 991 starts at $84,300. You're trying to compare a heavily optioned M4 to a base 991. If someone is going to add DCT, ceramic brakes, full leather, executive package, etc. to the M4, then surely they would want the same features in the Porsche. A similarly optioned 991 would cost well over $105k.
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01-23-2014, 12:23 AM | #3 | |
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I think your numbers are fictional numbers. In real life, I bet a well equipped M3 averages $25K less than a 911 Carrera non-S. Pat |
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01-23-2014, 12:24 AM | #4 |
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even if the M4 is mid 80s. if you actually look into buying a 911 you will find that there are a ton of options for the car. most 911s you see will be sticker price over 90 grand.
plus i would at least want a 911 carrera s. so really the loaded M4 is BARELY priced at a base 911. i wouldn't really call it firmly priced in with a 911. |
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01-23-2014, 12:32 AM | #5 | |
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A PDK equipped 991 can be had for similar, if not less money. Superfluous packages notwithstanding. While contemplating an $85-90k coupe purchase, 991 will surely pop on the radar of most, if not all, buyers (shoppers and dreamers are excluded for obvious reasons) |
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01-23-2014, 12:44 AM | #6 |
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In Canada the M4 starts at $75k and the 911 C2 starts at $96,200 while C2S starts at $112,800. For a 911 I would go straight to the S model. Even a loaded M4 with all options will not even be what the start price of the C2S.
I do agree that personally I would consider a 911 but the price difference and the options list along with high payments would keep me away from a 911. |
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01-23-2014, 12:50 AM | #7 | |
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Misinformation at best. First, no mention in my post about a 4 door m3. Just the 2 door M4. Second, I just configured a red/tan 991 on Porscheusa.com, with PDK and Premium package it will run 92595. About 88k with a reasonable 5% off MSRP, the car can be ordered from any one of my local dealers for April delivery. No hassle, no option credits, usaa, loyalty, team USA credits, holiday cash, over invoice, under invoice, or any other silly buyer inducements to worry about. Nothing fictional about that. |
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01-23-2014, 12:58 AM | #8 |
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I agree with you. Base Carrera's all over 100k with S in the 110's. The M4 if optioned is still gonna be in the low 70's imo. I'd get all the must haves dont need B&O special leathers etc...Nav is standard, Im thinking exec package, DCT, 19's dont know much else I'd get...
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01-23-2014, 06:11 AM | #9 | |
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01-23-2014, 06:49 AM | #10 | |
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So there is nothing really changing the game if you look at the raw numbers, and we've been down this road before. I'm sure that would be a fantastic purchase as would the similarly equipped, similarly discounted M4 in the low 70s. |
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01-23-2014, 06:50 AM | #11 |
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My relatively well equipped DCT M4 will come out around $86k CAD.
I did look at the Porsche 991. I configured a 911 4S with the important performance options (power pack and the sort but not $995 embossed in the headreat Porshe logo type options) and it came out at $165k CAD . The GT3 starts at $148k... So in Canada, they are not in the same price range at all. |
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01-23-2014, 08:08 AM | #13 |
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There is no similarity in price. Everything is al la carte in a Porsche. Minimizing options will still be +$10 K over the base, plus the maintenance costs
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01-23-2014, 08:23 AM | #14 | |
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To get an M4 to $85k, one would have to start at $64,200 and then add $20k in options. Thusly: Base M4 - $64,200 CCB's - $7,500 Exec Package - $3,900 Metallic - $550 Driver Assist Plus - $1,900 Harmon Kardon - $875 MDCT - $2,900 Adaptive suspension - $1,000 19" wheels - $1,200 Destination - $925 Total - $84,950 So, to get a Carerra optioned in a similar manner: Base Carrera: $84,300 Bose Audio Package: $2,120 Premium Plus w/ Power Sport Seats: $2,330 Metallic: $710 Standard interior with leather seats: $1,550 Park Assist Front & Rear: $990 Dynamic Lights: $Inc in package PASM: $2,090 PCCB's: $8,520 PDK: $4,080 19 Wheels: INC Power Sport Seats with Memory Package: $2,320 Carbon console trim: $630 Carbon Interior Package: $1,770 Voice Control: $595 PTV Plus: $1,490 Total: $114,495 So almost exactly $30k more, comparably equipped. YOu could argue that the Porsche could be optioned out more reasonably. And I agree. But then it wouldn't be apples to apples now would it. Let's go a bit more luxury, without the CCB's, and without Driver assist, but adding in LED lights and extended leather: Base M4 - $64,200 Exec Package - $3,900 Metallic - $550 Lighting Package - $1,900 Harmon Kardon - $875 MDCT - $2,900 Adaptive suspension - $1,000 19" wheels - $1,200 Full Leather - $1,100 with exec Pack Destination - $925 Total - $78,550 Now a similar Porsche. I'll even take off the ridiculous carbon trim: Base Carrera: $84,300 Bose Audio Package: $2,120 Premium Plus w/ Power Sport Seats: $2,330 Metallic: $710 Leather Interior: $3,690 Park Assist Front & Rear: $990 LED Headlights: $3,110 PASM: $2,090 PDK: $4,080 19 Wheels: INC Power Sport Seats with Memory Package: $2,320 Interior Package in Leather (i.c.w. Leather Interior) Voice Control: $595 PTV Plus: $1,490 Total: $109,610 So now the difference is over $31k. Face it, no matter how you slice it, if you want to get the cars equipped reasonably the same, you're looking at $20k difference. To say nothing of the fact that you're down 50 HP and over 100 ft. lbs of torque. Argue all you want, you won't be right. You're also discussing a discounted price vs. full MSRP. Which is bunk. The M4 WILL have discounts available within 6-12 months, just as the 991 does now. I'm sure when the 991 was out there was no haggling then either. So say in a year, you're taking 10% off the 991, and 7% off for Euro delivery or a combination of year end / CCA / USAA, etc. That leaves you with: $79,003 vs. $103,495 and $73,051 vs. $98,649 So your difference is $24k and $25k respectively. To get a car that has less power and a lot less torque. Oh, and next to no back seat. That's a big difference to many buyers. The M4 is generally used way more day to day than the 911 Sorry, just not comparable. Last edited by Needsdecaf; 01-23-2014 at 08:32 AM.. |
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01-23-2014, 08:30 AM | #15 | |
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that said ive driven a 991 c4s and if it cost the same as an m4 there is no way I would take the m4. the c4s is THAT damn good you can get a very well equipped m4 for 70k and the Porsche is far more expensive and has far less tech and space. different cars at different price points
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01-23-2014, 08:42 AM | #16 |
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I think a better comparison is a m4 vs a 2012 or 2013 991. A 2012 fully loaded c2s with a $120k sticker (sport chrono, sport exhaust, pasm, pdcc, burmeister sound etc.) can be had for below $90k today. Since the M4 won't arrive till summer, the Porsche will probably be no more than $80k even by then (low 70's for a less equipped car). One is new, one is used but an interesting decision.
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01-23-2014, 08:48 AM | #17 | |
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can you link a few that are fully loaded and under 90k? and again, the m4 can be had equally equipped for 70k new. still a large price delta.
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01-23-2014, 08:50 AM | #18 |
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I think a better comparison would be the Boxster S. My recently sold ride to make space for the M4 was a nearly fully loaded Convertible which I got for 80k. The performance easily bested that of an E93 in a beautiful package. A comparably equipped 2014 Boxster S can be had for same price as M4 although I will admit that new M4 has improved and distanced itself from the current Boxster and why I easily made the choice to switch after only a short time with her. I don't drive in winter months so just sold it for nearly what I paid for her. Here are a a couple of Pics to help you appreciate my position in my garage and when I picked her up from Dealer.
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01-23-2014, 08:54 AM | #19 |
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It seems there's a disconnect between OP and some of the responses, so a clarification is in order. I used words like 'initial' orders and 'similar performance options' to draw comparisons. I fail to see how optioning up 991 with 18 way seats, more leather, carbon inlays, Bose audio package and glowin the dark emblems are related to performance.
Also, initial orders, not orders placed in 12 months, would necessitate comparisons between a non-discounted M4 and a discounted 991, nothing wrong with either one, just the way it is for now. So then, a rather simpler question is: $85k new M4 or ~$88k new 911? |
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01-23-2014, 08:56 AM | #20 | |
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your comparison makes no sense. you wanna compare base to base, fine. 64k vs 92k. Here is some context for those reading this thread and this guy's unbalanced and biased comparison. He also brought us this gem of a comparison....the 550ix vs the m3. http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=935992
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01-23-2014, 08:59 AM | #21 | |
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I had a regular Boxster last year with a manual, had a lot of fun with it. Boxster S is that much more ...suave... I'm sure. But M4 and 991 are both 2+2... |
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01-23-2014, 09:03 AM | #22 | |
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By using the word 'gem' in the context of your post, it would appear to a casual reader that you're making a derogatory remark. Maybe you can enlighten us as to why you feel the comparison between 550xi vs M3 is an invalid comparison? But you may want to do that in the appropriate thread. Last edited by PawnStar; 01-23-2014 at 09:09 AM.. |
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