[sdshah]

Originally Posted by SunnyD

Ever driven a Fiesta ST? Not saying it's better than an e46 M3 (I owned a Z4 M Coupe), but there's a reason why it's so well loved among journalists. It's a really great handling, lightweight car that gives you enough power to have fun.

It must be great but the comparison and comments are so pointless. I may be a sucker for a top gear style of presentation of cars - but there has to be some sort relevancy in these videos.

[The HACK]

Originally Posted by sdshah

This video gives you a ton of good examples.

Besides the fact that he mis-identified the wheels, there's nothing in the video that he said I disagree with completely. Sure, he wasn't impressed with the S54. But the subjective reasons that he stated as to WHY he didn't like the S54 in conjunction with the E46 chassis is DEAD ON. And he's absolutely right, that at 3,4xx lbs, the E46 M3 lacks that certain "feel" that you will never get unless you're in a much lighter car.

Factually, he's done his homework. Subjectively, if you don't agree with his opinion and the conclusion he's arrived at, that's one thing. But your not the one doing these videos, so your opinion and your conclusions is irrelevant to whether or not Matt Farrah is right.

[sdshah]

Originally Posted by The HACK

Besides the fact that he mis-identified the wheels, there's nothing in the video that he said I disagree with completely. Sure, he wasn't impressed with the S54. But the subjective reasons that he stated as to WHY he didn't like the S54 in conjunction with the E46 chassis is DEAD ON. And he's absolutely right, that at 3,4xx lbs, the E46 M3 lacks that certain "feel" that you will never get unless you're in a much lighter car.

Factually, he's done his homework. Subjectively, if you don't agree with his opinion and the conclusion he's arrived at, that's one thing. But your not the one doing these videos, so your opinion and your conclusions is irrelevant to whether or not Matt Farrah is right.

The comparison doesn?t make any sense in the first place...lol.

[The HACK]

Originally Posted by sdshah

It must be great but the comparison and comments are so pointless. I may be a sucker for a top gear style of presentation of cars - but there has to be some sort relevancy in these videos.

Just because you disagree with his conclusions does not make him wrong. There's no relevancy in these videos? Your opinion. He's absolutely correct that these two cars are in the same price range, one new, one used. There's really nothing else on the market that you can buy for $22K that would come CLOSE to the E46 M3 as a used car right now at $22-24K.

So the comparison is absolutely valid, even though the two cars don't exactly have a lot in common (besides price). I know plenty of people who WOULD cross shop the two based on budget, especially if they are into cars.

[sdshah]

Originally Posted by The HACK

Just because you disagree with his conclusions does not make him wrong. There's no relevancy in these videos? Your opinion. He's absolutely correct that these two cars are in the same price range, one new, one used. There's really nothing else on the market that you can buy for $22K that would come CLOSE to the E46 M3 as a used car right now at $22-24K.

So the comparison is absolutely valid, even though the two cars don't exactly have a lot in common (besides price). I know plenty of people who WOULD cross shop the two based on budget, especially if they are into cars.

And I?m sure all 16 of those people who cross shopped it, enjoyed the video. All other people who are logical when making a decision about a car know that this makes no 0 sense.

[The HACK]

Originally Posted by sdshah

And I?m sure all 16 of those people who cross shopped it, enjoyed the video. All other people who are logical when making a decision about a car know that this makes no 0 sense.

LOL. Again, just because you disagree does not make him wrong.

I'm active in the DE environment, and most of the Focus and Fiesta ST/RSes you see at the track, most of them at one point or another have considered the possibility of an E46 M3. Because a new Focus or Fiesta ST would cost nearly the same as a well sorted out M3. I have friends who actually did make that research and end up with a Focus ST. Kid you not.

The only people who blindly thinks that both cars have zero in common are the ones that that don't really know or care about cars outside of the propeller brand he/she follows. The vast majority of the REAL car enthusiasts in my circle would absolutely cross shop these two cars.

[sdshah]

Originally Posted by The HACK

LOL. Again, just because you disagree does not make him wrong.

I'm active in the DE environment, and most of the Focus and Fiesta ST/RSes you see at the track, most of them at one point or another have considered the possibility of an E46 M3. Because a new Focus or Fiesta ST would cost nearly the same as a well sorted out M3. I have friends who actually did make that research and end up with a Focus ST. Kid you not.

The only people who blindly thinks that both cars have zero in common are the ones that that don't really know or care about cars outside of the propeller brand he/she follows. The vast majority of the REAL car enthusiasts in my circle would absolutely cross shop these two cars.

Yeah, well then all those people should have gotten a GTI because it is better than both these cars. Anddddd That would have been a valid companion... but i guess it?s better to do this for all 16 people in the DE Fiesta gang.

[Brake_Late]

Originally Posted by Mako

New gen meets a classic

Fellow baseball dad has good taste in cars.
He is the original owner, 160,000 miles and going strong.

Dakar love

[wdb]

Originally Posted by sdshah

Yeah, well then all those people should have gotten a GTI because it is better than both these cars. Anddddd That would have been a valid companion... but i guess it?s better to do this for all 16 people in the DE Fiesta gang.

Costs >10% more. QED

[sdshah]

Originally Posted by wdb

Costs >10% more. QED

So 2500 bucks more or a 1 year used for 5k less...But we are comparing it to a 12 year old M3...makes complete sense. My point exactly.

[Longboarder]

Originally Posted by sdshah

This video gives you a ton of good examples.

From this video, why don?t you give us examples of ?He also is off about so many things so frequently.?

We?re waiting.

[Mingwan]

im more impressed with how the guy inherited such a car at a young age and managed to keep it in immaculate condition all these years.

i dont think i couldve done that, even if i had a daily driver.

[SpenceRx]

So clean. What a classic.

[chris82]

Originally Posted by The HACK

LOL. Again, just because you disagree does not make him wrong.

I'm active in the DE environment, and most of the Focus and Fiesta ST/RSes you see at the track, most of them at one point or another have considered the possibility of an E46 M3. Because a new Focus or Fiesta ST would cost nearly the same as a well sorted out M3. I have friends who actually did make that research and end up with a Focus ST. Kid you not.

The only people who blindly thinks that both cars have zero in common are the ones that that don't really know or care about cars outside of the propeller brand he/she follows. The vast majority of the REAL car enthusiasts in my circle would absolutely cross shop these two cars.

Can't imagine buying a car for the DE environment and choosing front wheel drive over rear wheel drive.

[The HACK]

Originally Posted by chris82

Can't imagine buying a car for the DE environment and choosing front wheel drive over rear wheel drive.

You know, I used to think that too when I first started. Then I got to drive a few well prepared FWD rockets on the track and that changed my perspective.

IF you're limited by budget to start your DE career, or you've progressed through enough to know what you're doing, there are certain advantages to FWD platform on the track. From a certain point of view.

1. FWD chassis are almost always LIGHTER. By several hundred lbs. Take the comparison that kicked off this discussion, where someone scoff at comparing a $25,000 used M3 vs. a $25,000 NEW Ford Fiesta ST.

E46 M3 Curb Weight: 3,450 lbs
Ford Fiesta ST Curb Weight: 2,720 lbs.

700 lbs is NOTHING to scoff at. Weight is the enemy of speed. That weight differential leads to a TON of advantages for a platform, including:

1a: Consumables. Tires, brakes, even FUEL are consumed at a much lower rate
1b: Cornering speed. All things being equal (i.e. tire compound), potential cornering speed is higher through turns therefore potential terminal speed at the end of straight or next turn should be higher too

2. FWD, while inherently disadvantaged at putting power down exiting a turn, when driven right allows a driver to lay into the throttle earlier in a turn, thus negating some of that dynamic disadvantage

Granted, in an ideal world, you'd go to the track with the lightest possible RWD platform with the most power. But that cost $$$. Not everyone of us can afford to track a Lotus Exige 240S AND daily drive that too. Some of us compromise to a more reasonably comfortable, not quite so light weight street-able RWD (BMW), a few decided the light weight aspect of an affordable FWD platform is the better compromise.

Otherwise we'd all be driving Miatas on track. But that's another can of worms.

[chris82]

Originally Posted by The HACK

You know, I used to think that too when I first started. Then I got to drive a few well prepared FWD rockets on the track and that changed my perspective.

IF you're limited by budget to start your DE career, or you've progressed through enough to know what you're doing, there are certain advantages to FWD platform on the track. From a certain point of view.

1. FWD chassis are almost always LIGHTER. By several hundred lbs. Take the comparison that kicked off this discussion, where someone scoff at comparing a $25,000 used M3 vs. a $25,000 NEW Ford Fiesta ST.

E46 M3 Curb Weight: 3,450 lbs
Ford Fiesta ST Curb Weight: 2,720 lbs.

700 lbs is NOTHING to scoff at. Weight is the enemy of speed. That weight differential leads to a TON of advantages for a platform, including:

1a: Consumables. Tires, brakes, even FUEL are consumed at a much lower rate
1b: Cornering speed. All things being equal (i.e. tire compound), potential cornering speed is higher through turns therefore potential terminal speed at the end of straight or next turn should be higher too

2. FWD, while inherently disadvantaged at putting power down exiting a turn, when driven right allows a driver to lay into the throttle earlier in a turn, thus negating some of that dynamic disadvantage

Granted, in an ideal world, you'd go to the track with the lightest possible RWD platform with the most power. But that cost $$$. Not everyone of us can afford to track a Lotus Exige 240S AND daily drive that too. Some of us compromise to a more reasonably comfortable, not quite so light weight street-able RWD (BMW), a few decided the light weight aspect of an affordable FWD platform is the better compromise.

Otherwise we'd all be driving Miatas on track. But that's another can of worms.

You don't need to be able to afford a Lotus Exige to do things right, just a rwd BMW, (preferably an M3)

[The HACK]

Originally Posted by chris82

You don't need to be able to afford a Lotus Exige to do things right, just a rwd BMW, (preferably an M3)

If you've ever driven an Exige S at a track you wouldn't be saying that, IMO.

[NashvegasR]

The E30 M3 looks great. That is why it is so white hot. It looks ridiculously awesome.

The engine... cool. The handling. cool. That's not why this is such a badass car. It's the looks.

I grew up in the 80's, I've owned an E30 M3 (that I sold for 12K with a broken everything in 2002 when I made less than zero in Los Angeles as an assistant)... long story short I just bought a low mileage 944 Turbo over a low mileage E30 M3 (same miles, 2x the price)... and ... the 944 Turbo is in every single respect a better car. Both cars are great.

The ONLY reason I wanted another E30 M3, and the ONLY reason I want another one is the boy racer 80's look. It's like RAD the car movie. It's fun but I have other cars that are better.

IT IS WHAT THE CAR LOOKS LIKE. It is the trophy wife of 80's cars.

Many cars put better numbers up. I guess what i don't understand is why people don't just say .. I'm f-ing shallow. I like the look. I want it. Everyone so caught up in the #'s. ... UH who cares.

B