[BMWbiker]

Originally Posted by Kaemslothel

Thanks for all this information! I think my best bet is to change the tires when my car gets to the dealership hopefully they can swap them out for me

Arrange for that ahead of time, including having the parts people pre-order the winter tires that you want (or you order them from your vendor of choice and have them delivered to the dealer, etc.).

I bought a new car last month. The winter tires took a few days longer to arrive than originally anticipated. My car came equipped with all-seasons, so I did take delivery, then returned a few days later for the winter tires. Had it been equipped with summer tires, I would have refused delivery until the winter tires were installed.

Summer tires are dangerous in the snow, on ice, and even on dry pavement below about 40 degrees F. They are designed to work great in the summer. Many are designed to work great on the track. They are contraindicated in the winter.

Just as all-seasons are a compromise that make them not great on the track, so too are they a compromise that make them not great in the winter. They are far better than summer tires, but not optimized for winter conditions. They can range from okay to good, depending on the model.

Winter tires are optimized for winter conditions.

Where you live, it behooves you to install winter tires if you drive regularly in the winter.

Consider buying minus-one: narrower tires with wider sidewalls and higher aspect rims and tires, and a square setup. The narrower tires will work better in the snow, all else equal. The wider sidewalls will give the rims more protection from the inevitable winter potholes. The square setup will allow you to rotate the tires, thus giving them additional life. In addition, they’ll probably be less expensive than the original size. Of course, you’ll have to buy rims as well as tires if you go this route.

[tturedraider]

Originally Posted by Kaemslothel

Thanks for all this information! I think my best bet is to change the tires when my car gets to the dealership hopefully they can swap them out for me

Your best bet is to buy a 1” smaller square setup of wheels with winter tires and have a dedicated set you switch back and forth between the seasons. It won’t be hard to find a set in the classifieds here or on Facebook Marketplace.

[tturedraider]

https://g20.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=2153718

https://g20.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=2154470. Offer him $500 - $600.

[NSXR]

Originally Posted by tracer bullet

We could meet for a beer and I could tell you about driving a FWD car on Goodyear Gatorbacks on the way from Moab towards Denver. It was October, warm, and seemed fine but then we had a fun blizzard hit the pass on our way home. That was like 5mph and white knuckles for hours on end. One of the top 10 worst experiences of my life.

I remember these tires. My old Pontiac Formula 350 was fitted with them from the factory. Great tire for the time, when they were hot.

[M3SQRD]

Originally Posted by Ohio Enthusiast

All of this might have been very true 20 or even 10 years ago. But if you read/watch recent tire tests you'd see that all-season (or the European all-weather) tires are significantly improved and are a valid option for many use cases. My E93 came with UHP all-season tires and they're more than adequate in both summer and light snow. I wouldn't track the car on them, but as I'm not looking for that extra 3 tenths of a second on my way to drop the kids off to school, a higher grip summer tire would be wasted. I also wouldn't try to drive in 6 inches of fresh snow on them, but snowfall here happens a handful of times a winter and the roads are very well plowed and salted. I have the luxury of choosing not to drive if there is fresh snow on the roads, so that helps.

On my BRZ I started with a summer and winter sets (specifically performance winter tires) and later moved to UHP all-season and track sets. The all-seasons definitely had less ultimate grip in the dry and warm (I even tracked the summer tires, to their great detriment in wear), but not something that I missed even in aggressive driving (and in fact it fit the character of the car better). In winter the performance winter tires were only marginally better in snow, ice and slush then the UHP all-seasons, and were worse when the roads were dry and when temps crept up (temps in the 60s in the middle of winter are not uncommon here, as well as temps in the single digits).

If you live somewhere were there's snow on the roads for months on end, dedicated winter tires are a must. But if you only get a bit of [...]

Winter performance tires are not for snow only. You’d want winter snow and ice tires if you have to deal with months of snow. Temps consistently below 25-30 F perform far better than AS tires. An AS tire makes sacrifices in all seasons which make them all crap tires. I have driven on recent AS tires in different seasons and they still perform badly in all seasons compared to season specific tires. Winter performance tires handle far better on cold wet roads than AS tires. Winter performance tires can handle 8+” of snow when accelerating, braking and cornering. Winter performance tires are justified when a f8x has to driven in snow, cold and wet conditions.

As others have said, they consider AS tire mileage a plus over summer performance tire mileage or if they are truly worried about the lower mileage of a summer performance tire then you can’t afford to own a f8x. The f8x needs tires with a high level of grip even for street use. People complain it’s difficult, or impossible, to put the torque to the road on MPSS* spec tired so installing AS tires makes things orders of magnitude worse. Get a f3x instead with most models coming standard with AS tires.

[nazali]

short answer no....
long answer (Canadian) just get winter tyres.. dont mess around

also depends on your local regional laws

BUT if you drive a BMW and you wanna keep it, put winter tires on, ESPECIALLY if temps will fall below 7deg's daytime

Originally Posted by Kaemslothel

Living in a state with snow is it safe to drive with Summer Staggering wheels or should I just opt to driving with All season Staggering wheels ?

[Mech Spec]

Originally Posted by M3SQRD

Winter performance tires are not for snow only. You’d want winter snow and ice tires if you have to deal with months of snow. Temps consistently below 25-30 F perform far better than AS tires. An AS tire makes sacrifices in all seasons which make them all crap tires. I have driven on recent AS tires in different seasons and they still perform badly in all seasons compared to season specific tires. Winter performance tires handle far better on cold wet roads than AS tires. Winter performance tires can handle 8+” of snow when accelerating, braking and cornering. Winter performance tires are justified when a f8x has to driven in snow, cold and wet conditions.

As others have said, they consider AS tire mileage a plus over summer performance tire mileage or if they are truly worried about the lower mileage of a summer performance tire then you can’t afford to own a f8x. The f8x needs tires with a high level of grip even for street use. People complain it’s difficult, or impossible, to put the torque to the road on MPSS* spec tired so installing AS tires makes things orders of magnitude worse. Get a f3x instead with most models coming standard with AS tires.

You're not worth responding to because you clearly are not interested in participating in a good faith discussion.

The irony of someone who lives in the "Mid-Atlantic" raging about using winter specific tires. Most "winter performance" tires perform worse than All season and all weather tires in the wet/dry, educate yourself on tyre reviews youtube videos. No need to post the results for you as they are clear and complete.

Why the fk do you keep talking about F8X? nothing in this entire thread is about F8X cars. OP doesnt have one, and isnt buying one.

[Ohio Enthusiast]

Originally Posted by M3SQRD

Winter performance tires handle far better on cold wet roads than AS tires.

I'll respond to this specifically since I have ample experience with this. I ran Verdestein Wintrac Pro on my BRZ for 3 winters, Goodyear Eagle Exhilarate for 1 winter and am running BFGoodrich G-Force Comp-2 A/S Plus now (this winter). My E93 is on Goodyear Eagle Sport (and I drive it this winter).
The Wintrac Pro were very mushy in steering feel regardless of temperature, and it only got worse above 50 degrees. They were much more comfortable than the Goodyear's but on-par with the BFGoodrich's. They had good grip in the wet and dry, but both all season tires had better grip regardless of temperature and significantly better feel. Cold and wet (I'm putting here both above freezing low temps and rain as well as below freezing wet salted roads) is still better for the all seasons, as well as cold and dry and certainly warm and dry/wet (in Ohio it's fairly typical to get days in the 50s in the dead of winter).
For snow and ice, I drove both in similar conditions (fresh 1-4 inches, compacted snow and plowed but unsalted roads). The Wintrac Pro were about the same as both all seasons - worked well on flat roads and were nice and predictable (and fun to slide around), but struggled on any hint of an incline for starting from a standstill. I couldn't climb the hill to my house on any of them with anything more than a dusting unless I timed the momentum well.

Now, you might say that the Wintrac Pro are bad performance winter tires, and you may be right (although TireRack tests are quite favorable, particularly on snow (rather than ice)). Or that my all seasons are exactly the ones that are the best for these conditions (although they are pretty mid-pack, good enough for a good price for me). Perhaps you are comparing to touring all seasons, like the CrossClimate? These do indeed sacrifice dry/wet grip for better snow/ice grip and increased tread wear.

Comparing to summer tires (Bridgestone Potenza Sport) the all seasons had less ultimate grip in both dry and wet, but to test that I really needed to push the car much more than I am comfortable on a public road. I.e. even if I ran summer tires my driving wouldn't really change and I wouldn't see an actual benefit. I also tracked the Potenza Sport a couple of times and they held up well, to the detriment of their life (they were at the wear bars by 6000 miles). I wouldn't think of tracking the all seasons, but I saw a few folks on track with UHP all seasons and they did pretty well (as novices).

I really enjoy data, and both TireRack tests and TyreReviews show that the gap between all season and dedicated season tires is ever shrinking. TyreReviews in particular had a few tests where he threw in an all season and a summer tire into a winter tires test and the all seasons were pretty close in the snow, and better in the wet and dry. All seasons struggled on ice and summers obviously were absolutely terrible in snow/ice (but still very good in cold and dry/wet).

All of this, coupled with the fairly snow-less winters in Ohio and me having the luxury of not driving in the snow if I don't want to, makes UHP all season tires work very well for me. Doesn't mean they'll work for everyone, but I feel that the knee-jerk reaction of "no season" tires is a little out of date with today's tires.

[SCSIsoftware]

Thanks for the great write-up. I think that we’re seeing things pretty much the same way – unless you absolutely must get around in any type of snow condition, UHP All Season tires are good enough.

[BMWCCA1]

Originally Posted by NSXR

To my mind, any video ranking that did not include Continental DWS is not worth watching This one looks like a Hankook ad. And just try to find Kleber here in the USA.

[NSXR]

Originally Posted by Ohio Enthusiast

I feel that the knee-jerk reaction of "no season" tires is a little out of date with today's tires.

100%

Originally Posted by BMWCCA1

To my mind, any video ranking that did not include Continental DWS is not worth watching This one looks like a Hankook ad. And just try to find Kleber here in the USA.

I think he just works with what he has. But I agree, would have liked to see more tires in the test.

[Mech Spec]

Originally Posted by BMWCCA1

To my mind, any video ranking that did not include Continental DWS is not worth watching This one looks like a Hankook ad. And just try to find Kleber here in the USA.

Why would he put a 3 season tire in a 4 season tire test? It doesnt have a 3PMS rating.

I've run DWS06 in the past, they are not capable in snow any more than a Pilot sport AS tire.

[Ohio Enthusiast]

Originally Posted by BMWCCA1

To my mind, any video ranking that did not include Continental DWS is not worth watching This one looks like a Hankook ad. And just try to find Kleber here in the USA

The "tyre" in TyreReviews should have clued you in that he is not a US based reviewer (despite doing a lot of testing in US facilities). He mostly tests European models of tires, and all season tires are very different between the European market and the North American market. Even the categories are not the same (especially the all season vs all weather distinction).

This makes TyreReviews hit-and-miss for relevance for the US market, which is sad as he is probably the most thorough tester and does very good test setups (in terms of tires tests and the types of tests he does). Tire availability is also not always 100%, same as with car comparisons, and he tends to be upfront and transparent about that.

As for being a Hankook ad? If the DWS was included and won the comparison, would you claim a Continental ad? Sometimes mid-tier brands can shine, no need to try and find an ulterior motive.

[co_440i]

Originally Posted by M3SQRD

Are you serious? I have two e92 M3s, a f82, a f22 240ix and a g20 330ix M Sport. The g20 330 handles better than a stock f82 and, yes, it can “need” and put to full use sticky summer tires. Have you driven a g20 330i/ix? A Miata can “need” a sticky summer tire for street and track use. I sure hope this wasn’t a serious answer, and hence the use of the quotes, because if it was then it’s one of the more misinformed posts that I’ve seen in quite some time.
.

You have two m3s and an M4? at the same time? Why?

[SCSIsoftware]

Originally Posted by SCSIsoftware

Thanks for the great write-up. I think that we’re seeing things pretty much the same way – unless you absolutely must get around in any type of snow condition, UHP All Season tires are good enough.

Not to start an argument with myself, but I bought a set of Michelin Pilot Alpin 5 tires for my newly delivered M60i. I guess I was tired of "good-enough"

[Ohio Enthusiast]

Originally Posted by SCSIsoftware

I bought a set of Michelin Pilot Alpin 5 tires for my newly delivered M60i.

Have you driven in the before on studless snow tires? I had Vredestein Wintrac Pro (a performance winter tire) and they were very disappointing in snow and ice, barely any better than UHP all seasons. I'd be very curious how are your impressions of the MP Alpin and if you can compare them to "serious" winter tires.

[tracer bullet]

Originally Posted by Ohio Enthusiast

I had Vredestein Wintrac Pro (a performance winter tire) and they were very disappointing in snow and ice, barely any better than UHP all seasons.

I won't doubt your view but I've got them on my X3 daily driver here in MN and love them. They are FAR better than the Potenza all-seasons I had before. Though that might not be a super high bar.

[SCSIsoftware]

Originally Posted by Ohio Enthusiast

Have you driven in the before on studless snow tires? I had Vredestein Wintrac Pro (a performance winter tire) and they were very disappointing in snow and ice, barely any better than UHP all seasons. I'd be very curious how are your impressions of the MP Alpin and if you can compare them to "serious" winter tires.

I had Pilot Sport A/S 4 tires on my recently traded-in Macan - they were better than any summer tires in the snow, which is definitely a low bar. They were not really particularly good in the snow. I'd have to drive super carefully with them - pretty much every stop would involve some sliding.

I always had Performance Winter tires - usually the then current Pilot Alpins - on my three STIs before the Macan. The STIs never even seemed to know that the roads were slick.

I did have Blizzaks on the family car back in the 90s. They truly were amazing in the snow. But the sidewalls were so flimsy that the low tire monitor (which was based on relative speed of the tires - this was before tire pressure sensors were available) would always turn on at the same dip in the road. The tire monitor mistook the decreased tire diameter for low tire pressure. As far as tires go - they were trash.

While the flexibility of all-season/weather tires can eliminate the twice-a-year tire change over, having dedicated winter and summer tires really helps to bring out the best in a high-performance vehicle.

[STi from DSM]

I thought that I would be ok with AWD in my WRX when I had that brand new. (This was in 2013) I left the summer performance tires on and got stuck in my Cul-de-sac when we had a 13" snowfall. I went 13 feet outside my driveway and got stuck. I went to bowling and came back in one of the worst blizzards I can remember (I'm 42) I aimed for the center of the streets as to not go in the ditch. I made it home and halfway up mu driveway and then had to plow myself out as I got stuck again.

It is ALWAYS more beneficial to have winter dedicated tires if you live in a climate that has snow. Summer performance tires suck in the snow.