[zx10guy]

Originally Posted by DETRoadster

There's only 2 factory certified BMW repair shops in Seattle and my car is in pieces at one of them. Pulling out now is not really an option. i trust the body shop. They have kept me cc'd on all correspondence with LIMU and the guy is extremely direct. Pulls no punches. The problem is that LIMU is not obligated to pay for OEM parts and after calling my insurance about subrogation I've learned that neither are they, if the vehicle is more than 2 years old. The hope was that I'd be a big enough bother that they'd just sign off on the $317 difference in OEM vs. non OEM parts but they arent budging. So it's looking like I'll have to suck it up and pay that difference, then try to collect on the back end through a diminished value claim.

Well, you're sort of stuck since your car is in pieces at the shop.

But both my ex-wife's and my car were over 2 years old when we had our respective claims. I think hers was 3 years old. Mine was 5 years old. Yet my shop was able to get factory parts for both. Yes, all insurance companies will tell you the official party line about using factory parts. Then there's the reality when you have a good shop.

My shop appeases the insurance companies by going through their process and then showing with clear proof why an aftermarket or junk yard part will not work. It takes more time from their end to do this but they do for valued customers or those that they know are anal retentive about their cars. In the end, it's their reputation. My insurance company require junk yard/reconditioned parts for my 135i. The shop went through the process and got a new bumper cover and two new LCI adaptive headlight assemblies among other genuine BMW parts....again on a 5 year old car.

ETA: And my shop is not BMW certified but their work is still top notch. They matched the paint on my car perfectly (carbon black), along with my ex-wife's Acura RDX (metallic black), and my Ducati 848 (pearl white).

[NytWolf]

Just a thought, if OP had a lienholder and if the lienholder got involved, how would that change things? If the lienholder can require you to a said deductible value (e.g. $500), they should be able to require the insurance company to use OEM parts. Anyway....

In OP's case, I would get my own insurance involved. IDK why they weren't in the first place, especially OP wasn't at fault. At least it wasn't made clear.

[DETRoadster]

Originally Posted by zx10guy

Well, you're sort of stuck since your car is in pieces at the shop.

But both my ex-wife's and my car were over 2 years old when we had our respective claims. I think hers was 3 years old. Mine was 5 years old. Yet my shop was able to get factory parts for both. Yes, all insurance companies will tell you the official party line about using factory parts. Then there's the reality when you have a good shop.

My shop appeases the insurance companies by going through their process and then showing with clear proof why an aftermarket or junk yard part will not work. It takes more time from their end to do this but they do for valued customers or those that they know are anal retentive about their cars. In the end, it's their reputation. My insurance company require junk yard/reconditioned parts for my 135i. The shop went through the process and got a new bumper cover and two new LCI adaptive headlight assemblies among other genuine BMW parts....again on a 5 year old car.

ETA: And my shop is not BMW certified but their work is still top notch. They matched the paint on my car perfectly (carbon black), along with my ex-wife's Acura RDX (metallic black), and my Ducati 848 (pearl white).

Yep, did all that. Gave them documentation from the IIHS, an Insurance agency backed group, saying aftermarket safety equipment like bumpers are not up to OEM spec and shouldn't be used. Cited a number of OEM studies showing that garbage is not up to spec and what happens when an airbag is deployed just 6 milliseconds late due to the design of the bumper being slightly off. Hint, it's NOT good.

Anyway, none of that seems to matter as they are holding firm. I'm demanding to talk to the supervisor and threatening to open a case with the WA state insurance commissioner.

[DETRoadster]

Originally Posted by NytWolf

Just a thought, if OP had a lienholder and if the lienholder got involved, how would that change things? If the lienholder can require you to a said deductible value (e.g. $500), they should be able to require the insurance company to use OEM parts. Anyway....

In OP's case, I would get my own insurance involved. IDK why they weren't in the first place, especially OP wasn't at fault. At least it wasn't made clear.

Hmm, not sure on the lienholder angle. Thats' an interesting one I never thought of! Will need to investigate.

I was 100% not at fault. WA State Patrol report said so much. I opted to go through the other guy's insurance rather than involving mine as my feeling is I'll fight harder for my desired outcome than my insurance company will.

[zx10guy]

Originally Posted by DETRoadster

Yep, did all that. Gave them documentation from the IIHS, an Insurance agency backed group, saying aftermarket safety equipment like bumpers are not up to OEM spec and shouldn't be used. Cited a number of OEM studies showing that garbage is not up to spec and what happens when an airbag is deployed just 6 milliseconds late due to the design of the bumper being slightly off. Hint, it's NOT good.

Anyway, none of that seems to matter as they are holding firm. I'm demanding to talk to the supervisor and threatening to open a case with the WA state insurance commissioner.

What my body shop did wasn't with showing them documentation from IIHS. They went ahead with the process of actually ordering the parts. Then mounted them up and showed them all the flaws with the fitment and such. Of course this takes a lot of work on their end to do this but that's why they're as big as they are and have tons of referral work. My ex-wife's Acura dealer doesn't have a body shop and uses my body shop as their official one.

However they presented their case concerning aftermarket parts has worked for me on two occasions with two different insurance companies, one of which was Liberty Mutual.

I know you're stuck at this moment as your selected body shop has already started work on your car. But I wanted to put this out there for others that the body shop you select is very important as to the final outcome of your repairs. Even dealer body shops are not always the best place to go. When I had my Focus hit by someone at fault, I thought the Ford dealership I had the repair work done would go above and beyond to get OEM parts; especially since I bought the car from them too. Nope. They went aftermarket. My BMW dealership has their own BMW certified body shop. I had my body shop handle the repairs and am glad I did.

But I sympathize with your situation as I would be pissed too.

[DETRoadster]

Update time! What a F'ing mess!

Got the car back. It's flawless. Big relief there. Super happy with the shop.

As for the insurance side, the shop and I teamed up on the insurance adjuster and got LIMU to assign a local adjuster who actually went out and looked at the car. He was able to authorize OEM crash bars but dug in hard on the OEM bumper covers. The difference between the Chinese bumper covers and OEM was about $300 so of course I sprung for OEM and paid the difference out of my pocket.

Now I get to go about collecting that $300 back from LIMU. Now it's personal. I'll be drafting a letter to a Sr. VP at LIMU that the bodyshop gave me the name of, and copying the physical damage claims rep and the medical damages claim rep. I'll be accusing them of deceptive and dishonest practices and threatening to go to the WA State insurance commissioner with a claim, and blasting my experience all over social media. My supporting evidence of deceptive and dishonest actions is as follows:

1) Statement from LIMU that they will only cover aftermarket bumper covers from Keystone, the Chinese manufacturer.

2) E-Mail from Keystone stating they do NOT have M2 bumper skins in stock and sceenshots from their ordering portal showing the part is NOT available. IOW, LIMU will only pay for parts that are unavailable.

3) E-Mail from LIMU medical claims adjuster trying to get me to settle the medical claim and assuring me that signing the release document was only for the medical side and would not have any impact on my ongoing dissatisfaction with the property damage side of the claim.

4) Said "medical" release claim from LIMU that clearly states that signing releases LIMU for any further medical AND property claims.

5) About 4 e-mails back and forth between me and the medical claims rep questioning if the document really only applies to medical and not property, culminating in this gem of a statement from the medical claims officer: "Not to worry, that is a commonly asked question. While in theory the release does have language that discusses settlement of “all claims”, it is a long-established and understood practice that signing the injury release would not preclude any further questions or settlement on your property damage claim. You have my word that signing the release to settle your injury claim now would not alter our ability to issue future payments on your vehicle claim should other issues with repairs be discovered" LOL "you have my word..." Come on buddy.

All this over $300. LIMU done pissed me off. Time to go to war!

[paliknight]

Originally Posted by DETRoadster

Update time! What a F'ing mess!

Got the car back. It's flawless. Big relief there. Super happy with the shop.

As for the insurance side, the shop and I teamed up on the insurance adjuster and got LIMU to assign a local adjuster who actually went out and looked at the car. He was able to authorize OEM crash bars but dug in hard on the OEM bumper covers. The difference between the Chinese bumper covers and OEM was about $300 so of course I sprung for OEM and paid the difference out of my pocket.

Now I get to go about collecting that $300 back from LIMU. Now it's personal. I'll be drafting a letter to a Sr. VP at LIMU that the bodyshop gave me the name of, and copying the physical damage claims rep and the medical damages claim rep. I'll be accusing them of deceptive and dishonest practices and threatening to go to the WA State insurance commissioner with a claim, and blasting my experience all over social media. My supporting evidence of deceptive and dishonest actions is as follows:

1) Statement from LIMU that they will only cover aftermarket bumper covers from Keystone, the Chinese manufacturer.

2) E-Mail from Keystone stating they do NOT have M2 bumper skins in stock and sceenshots from their ordering portal showing the part is NOT available. IOW, LIMU will only pay for parts that are unavailable.

3) E-Mail from LIMU medical claims adjuster trying to get me to settle the medical claim and assuring me that signing the release document was only for the medical side and would not have any impact on my ongoing dissatisfaction with the property damage side of the claim.

4) Said "medical" release claim from LIMU that clearly states that signing releases LIMU for any further medical AND property claims.

5) About 4 e-mails back and forth between me and the medical claims rep questioning if the document really only applies to medical and not property, culminating in this gem of a statement from the medical claims officer: "Not to worry, that is a commonly asked question. While in theory the release does have language that discusses settlement of “all claims”, it is a long-established and understood practice that signing the injury release would not preclude any further questions or settlement on your property damage claim. You have my word that signing the release to settle your injury claim now would not alter our ability to issue future payments on your vehicle claim should other issues with repairs be discovered" LOL "you have my word..." Come on buddy.

All this over $300. LIMU done pissed me off. Time to go to war!

Fuck them up OP. I trust dealerships more than I trust insurance companies.

[Maynard]

If you really are needing to go to a chiropractor, then $350 extra for auto damage may be chump change compared to future medical issues. Get a really good eval from an experienced orthopedic or rehab doc, w/ full imaging. If you have underlying damage it may take a few years to really express itself. Those kinds of impact can sometimes cause misalignments or hairline fractures; not likely, but certainly something to rule out if you are having symptoms. And I bet that seeing that initial bill will grab LIMU by the short hairs and get them chomping to settle things up.

[DETRoadster]

Originally Posted by Maynard

If you really are needing to go to a chiropractor, then $350 extra for auto damage may be chump change compared to future medical issues. Get a really good eval from an experienced orthopedic or rehab doc, w/ full imaging. If you have underlying damage it may take a few years to really express itself. Those kinds of impact can sometimes cause misalignments or hairline fractures; not likely, but certainly something to rule out if you are having symptoms. And I bet that seeing that initial bill will grab LIMU by the short hairs and get them chomping to settle things up.

Oddly enough I was on my way to my chiropractor for my monthly "tune up" and a massage appointment when I got hit. I've been seeing the same chiro for about 7 years. He's excellent and knows what's normal for me and what isnt. He was a life saver when I herniated my low back about 5 years about. He took X-Rays and confirmed my neck was a little tweaked as well one vertebrae which has never been an issue for me in the past. I'm really lucky in that it was a pretty low speed impact. I did several visits in the weeks following, then COVID hit and I kinda dropped it. it's been 2 months and I feel OK so I'm cautiously optimistic IO'm outta the woods but Ill be keeping the medical claim open and not settling for a few more months just to be safe.

[Maynard]

Originally Posted by DETRoadster

Oddly enough I was on my way to my chiropractor for my monthly "tune up" and a massage appointment when I got hit. I've been seeing the same chiro for about 7 years. He's excellent and knows what's normal for me and what isnt. He was a life saver when I herniated my low back about 5 years about. He took X-Rays and confirmed my neck was a little tweaked as well one vertebrae which has never been an issue for me in the past. I'm really lucky in that it was a pretty low speed impact. I did several visits in the weeks following, then COVID hit and I kinda dropped it. it's been 2 months and I feel OK so I'm cautiously optimistic IO'm outta the woods but Ill be keeping the medical claim open and not settling for a few more months just to be safe.

Sorry to hear that. If you have something visible on xray, then I would double down on my advice. Get your guy's suggestions for the better ortho/rehab people in your area and get a full medical consult, with better imaging (usually MRI). Those transient 'little tweaks and pains' can be the body equivalent of that small puff of smoke at startup that goes right away - occasionally a sign of something much more significant where early prevention will be way better than waiting for something really dramatic to occur. This comes from almost 20 years working in spinal cord injury/rehab - I've seen a whole lot of bad stuff that started with these types of fairly minor injuries, left unattended until something wore out or busted loose. Mind you this is not the likely, or even common outcome; usually people heal up well. But if you don't, you'll drop more than the whole accident cost you for the first round of real treatment. It is far less of overkill than trying to go after diminished value on the car.

[DETRoadster]

Originally Posted by Maynard

Sorry to hear that. If you have something visible on xray, then I would double down on my advice. Get your guy's suggestions for the better ortho/rehab people in your area and get a full medical consult, with better imaging (usually MRI). Those transient 'little tweaks and pains' can be the body equivalent of that small puff of smoke at startup that goes right away - occasionally a sign of something much more significant where early prevention will be way better than waiting for something really dramatic to occur. This comes from almost 20 years working in spinal cord injury/rehab - I've seen a whole lot of bad stuff that started with these types of fairly minor injuries, left unattended until something wore out or busted loose. Mind you this is not the likely, or even common outcome; usually people heal up well. But if you don't, you'll drop more than the whole accident cost you for the first round of real treatment. It is far less of overkill than trying to go after diminished value on the car.

Thanks! Great advice!

[ShakyDog]

Get a lawyer! Be sure to check on 'Diminished Value' and whether it is applicable in your state. Unfortunately, this requires a lawyer as insurance companies are not here for you.

Steve

[DETRoadster]

Well, it's finally done! it took exactly 6 months from the date of the accident to settle everything. The good news is my car is fixed and I'm uninjured. Thought I'd give a little run-down on some of the challenges I faced in getting this thing taken care of.

The biggest thing I learned is to be patient and persistent. The insurance company will try to wear you down and wait you out. it's a time honored technique and costs them nothing to just dig in and hope you fold, eventually.

The other thing I learned is that virtually every issue, every decision point, comes down to your willingness to get a lawyer and sue the insurance company. So you really need to weigh those costs, how far you are willing to take it, and how much you are willing to go into debt to prove your point in the hopes a court sides with you.

Also, do EVERY correspondence by e-mail and save them all. I literally have hundreds of emails from this one, simple accident. I had multiple phone calls with LIMU agents where they tried to get me to sign a settlement and flat out told me that language in the settlement didnt matter, was never enforced, to just "trust" them that they are on my side, etc.

A few places where I ran into trouble and what I did about it:

1) OEM parts vs. Aftermarket. The insurance company (Liberty Mutual / LIMU) for the guy that hit me would not authorize OEM parts, only aftermarket. My repair shop refuses to use anything but OEM. LIMU didnt flat-out refuse until my car was in pieces at the shop. The shop went to bat for me with all kinds of evidence showing that the parts i needed to have replaced (bumper supports, crash sensors, and bumper covers) are part of the car's safety system and there's studies showing that the aftermarket parts do not perform as well in an impact and thus are not "like quality and performance". LIMU backed down on the bumper support and sensors and paid for OEM but refused to pay for OEM bumper covers, stating that they are cosmetic and not a safety system. This went on for weeks. Finally the shop said they need to get my car out of there or into storage. To make matters worse, the aftermarket bumper covers that LIMU approved were unavailable so here I was having to decide between storing the car at my cost, going beyond the rental timeline, and waiting for Chinese bumper covers to some day come into inventory. Or, pay the difference out of pocket. Easy decision, I paid the difference out of pocket and spent the next month trying to collect that difference from LIMU. I provided screenshots from Keystone's website showing that the bumper covers were not available as well as e-mail correspondence between my shop and Keystone showing that the covers are unavailable. LIMU dodged accountability for weeks before I finally wrote them and said "Last chance. Reimburse me or I go to the Sate Insurance Commissioner and file a complaint for unfair and deceptive business practices." A friend of mine in the industry told me that LIMU can ignore me all they want but are obligated by law to respond to all complaints filed with the insurance commissioner, which eats up their time and resources. LIMU did a 180 and immediately mailed me a check for the difference.

2) Diminished Value Appraisal I talked to a diminished appraisal appraiser. There's 2 types of diminished value. One deals with actual diminished value that comes when sheet metal is bent, ripped, torn, stretched, and has been proven to not be the same as it was before the accident. It loses its structural integrity. there are court cases that support this and were fought for decades before being settled in favor of the accident victims. These now serve as the foundation for diminished value claims. Then there's "stigma value loss" which is basically the loss in value attributed to the stigma of the car being in an accident. These are very hard to win and in fact the diminished value appraiser I spoke to said they dont even try to take those on unless it's an antique, classic, or one of a kind vehicle which my M2 is not. My car suffered damage to parts that could be unbolted and replaced. There was no cutting, welding, patching, filling, etc. Straight up unbolt the bad and bolt in the new. So essentially I was going to have a serious uphill battle to win a diminished value claim. LIMU did their own "diminished value" assessment and shockingly they concluded there was no diminished value. So this was a "agree to disagree and move on" or, sue them, situation. For a $6,000 repair it wasnt worth suing them over so I cut bait and moved on.

3) Settlement Paperwork LIMU split the claim into medical and property with 2 different adjusters. The property guy was stubborn and hard nosed, the medical gal was super sweet and pretended to care. she tried on multiple occasions to get me to close out the medical claim since I was feeling better and uninjured. Had a couple chiro appointments and an X-ray. The settlement she sent me closed out BOTH the medical and the property claim, even though my car was in pieces as we fought over Chinese bumpers. I told her I wouldn't sign it because the property side was still open. "Oh, this only applies to the medical side" she said. When I called her on it and read the statement to her she said "Oh, yeah, it says that but that's not what it means. We would not close out the property side until you are ready, even if you sign this." I pushed her to send a medical only settlement and she said she couldn't, but I could trust her that the settlement may say 1 thing but they operate in a different way. WTF. Dont buy that! Read the documents and dont sign ANYTHING till you are 100% satisfied.

Not sure anyone is going to read this long ass post but hopefully it helps someone out someday.