[schoy]

Originally Posted by abisson

Currently living in Canada. Only reason I would move to the USA is to pay less taxes. That's it. (and the Sun in Cali)

Yeah, I thought about Canada. Too cold though. Have to take climate into consideration though because it has such a large effect on psychology. That's not to say there aren't cold places in the US (there certainly are), but there are more options.

[BMWinNorthdakota]

America is the king of capitalism, and I love capitalism and all it's fruits. America, fuck yes.

Inequalities (financially) are necessary.

[len56]

I loved that part of the show. Helps to contradict many Americans seemingly have without basis.

The more I read about america on the internet, the more happy I am to be living in Canada, lol. You guys get sued [on occasion] for downloading stuff.

Don't get me wrong I think America is honestly a great country and would be an awesome place to live (...I would stick to the typical coast cities that everyone wants to be in though, NY, LA, Miami, San Francisco etc.). It's just surprising how completely backwards some parts of it are. Also, lots of stupid people. I know every country, including my own has plenty of stupid people, but damn, you guys have a lot. I see science/technology initiatives and achievements that are the best in the world and make me incredibly proud of humanity, and then some of the worst people on the planet. It's definitely a place of stark contrast.

Then again it's not the best country in the world either. There's plenty of places in Europe I'd rather live. The lazy Mediterranean is the life.

I think if America raised it's social standards (ie. more taxes, or simply taxes better spent than policing Earth... I know, I know, blasphemy! socialism! How can I afford my McMansion with 3 pools!!!!), then it could easily become the best country again. Imagine a nation with the social benefits of some tidy, clean, refined european country, with all the technological progress of a superpower economy. You would become amazing. Probably won't happen for a while thanks to a whole bunch of regressive greedy people. Oh well.

[BMWinNorthdakota]

Originally Posted by len56

I loved that part of the show. Helps to contradict many Americans seemingly have without basis.

The more I read about america on the internet, the more happy I am to be living in Canada, lol. You guys get sued [on occasion] for downloading stuff.

Don't get me wrong I think America is honestly a great country and would be an awesome place to live (...I would stick to the typical coast cities that everyone wants to be in though, NY, LA, Miami, San Francisco etc.). It's just surprising how completely backwards some parts of it are. Also, lots of stupid people. I know every country, including my own has plenty of stupid people, but damn, you guys have a lot. I see science/technology initiatives and achievements that are the best in the world and make me incredibly proud of humanity, and then some of the worst people on the planet. It's definitely a place of stark contrast.

Then again it's not the best country in the world either. There's plenty of places in Europe I'd rather live. The lazy Mediterranean is the life.

I think if America raised it's social standards (ie. more taxes, or simply taxes better spent than policing Earth... I know, I know, blasphemy! socialism! How can I afford my McMansion with 3 pools!!!!), then it could easily become the best country again. Imagine a nation with the social benefits of some tidy, clean, refined european country, with all the technological progress of a superpower economy. You would become amazing. Probably won't happen for a while thanks to a whole bunch of regressive greedy people. Oh well.

"raise taxes"- yeah, right.

Its not a revenue problem, my Canadian friend, its the individuals in office who have the mentality that they have this unlimited check book funded by us (taxpayers): a SPENDING problem. And yes... overseas policing expenditures, I agree.

Tidy, clean, refined European country? Please, every country has its clean/dirty cities.

Regressive greedy people?

10% Bracket $0 – $17,400
15% Bracket $17,400 – $70,700
25% Bracket $70,700 – $142,700
28% Bracket $142,700 – $217,450
33% Bracket $217,450 – $388,350
35% Bracket Over $388,350

Here, take a look. Those "Greedy" people are giving up over 35% of their income up while people making little to nothing are paying virtually nothing in taxes. Wouldn't it be "fair" (yeah, I know... some of you reading this like that word) if they paid their share?

SOCIAL benefits

It is NOT the job of the government to "give benefits" to it's people. Notice anytime that the government gives it generally fails (think the postal service, Canadian health care (to the admission of many Canadians, along with its "creator" from what I gather), public schools in the united states, social security... the list goes on )

It is the governments job to enforce the laws and protect individual's right and liberty, to foster an environment that promotes private job creation, and to protects it's people's freedom by WHATEVER means necessary.


As far as stupidity in America goes, I guess I can't really argue that one... but then again the outrageous cases of stupidity are usually far more vocalized than normal intelligent levels.

[scott_uw]

Originally Posted by BMWinNorthdakota

It is NOT the job of the government to "give benefits" to it's people. Notice anytime that the government gives it generally fails (think the postal service, Canadian health care (to the admission of many Canadians, along with its "creator" from what I gather), public schools in the united states, social security... the list goes on )

I'm fairly annoyed by the fact you believe this, there was a 'hit job' of sorts in the American media about the Canadian healthcare system and, like many other things, your media portrayed it in a less than honest light.

Tommy Douglas, the instigator and creator of socialized medicine in Canada, was voted to by the "greatest canadian" of all time eight years ago. I'm not saying it was a perfect poll of 100% of Canada's population but what you are saying is on the whole wrong.

Canada's socialized medicine provides a far better /$ result than the American system(you spend ~$7.2k/year per capita iirc, canadians ~$3.9k/year per capita). We spend ~10% of GDP, you spend 16%. We live longer and have better preventative medicine, you have better specialists and the ability to have any groundbreaking operation you want in the US. I'm not saying the Canadian system is perfect(Australia's is better) but I would not trade healthcare systems with the US given the choice.

If you have time please watch an opposing view

As far as the failure of American public school system, chalk that up to severe underfunding. You could decrease the defense budget by 50% easily and still be a very secure nation, not sure whats up with that.

Given the choice to move for free, instead of living in Canada I would move to Australia/NZ or Nordic nations.

[DSB335d]

Originally Posted by BMWinNorthdakota

"raise taxes"- yeah, right.

Its not a revenue problem, my Canadian friend, its the individuals in office who have the mentality that they have this unlimited check book funded by us (taxpayers): a SPENDING problem. And yes... overseas policing expenditures, I agree.

Tidy, clean, refined European country? Please, every country has its clean/dirty cities.

Regressive greedy people?

10% Bracket $0 – $17,400
15% Bracket $17,400 – $70,700
25% Bracket $70,700 – $142,700
28% Bracket $142,700 – $217,450
33% Bracket $217,450 – $388,350
35% Bracket Over $388,350

Here, take a look. Those "Greedy" people are giving up over 35% of their income up while people making little to nothing are paying virtually nothing in taxes. Wouldn't it be "fair" (yeah, I know... some of you reading this like that word) if they paid their share?

SOCIAL benefits

It is NOT the job of the government to "give benefits" to it's people. Notice anytime that the government gives it generally fails (think the postal service, Canadian health care (to the admission of many Canadians, along with its "creator" from what I gather), public schools in the united states, social security... the list goes on )

It is the governments job to enforce the laws and protect individual's right and liberty, to foster an environment that promotes private job creation, and to protects it's people's freedom by WHATEVER means necessary.


As far as stupidity in America goes, I guess I can't really argue that one... but then again the outrageous cases of stupidity are usually far more vocalized than normal intelligent levels.

Postal Service... I can't believe to this day people still think the postal service is run on tax dollars; It is not.

In fact the USPS is the only revenue producing entity of our government.

On the other hand the USPS is also poorly mismanaged just like every other branch of this nation.

[schoy]

Originally Posted by DSB335d

In fact the USPS is the only revenue producing entity of our government.

Amtrak?

[smyles]

Actually quite a few Federal agencies are revenue producing, with various levels of effectiveness. Re USPS, while they have their issues, task any private company with the same levels of service - locations, prices, hours of operations, etc. - and lets see how long they survive before some kind of bailout.

To our Canadian friends: be careful what you wish for and don't forget how much your economy relies on high prices on natural resources, esp. oil. Keep in mind any significant decreases in those prices will have cascading effect on other parts of the economy, while the burden of social services will keep growing. Before you knock down US for high medical costs per person, etc., keep in mind unlike your county, US absorbs millions of newcomers every year, with only portion of them being productive, tax paying workforce. Multiply it by decades, and see if your economy can absorb comparable load w/o sacrificing any of the goodies you have.

[RambleJ]

Originally Posted by abisson

Currently living in Canada. Only reason I would move to the USA is to pay less taxes. That's it. (and the Sun in Cali)

If you're wanting to pay less taxes, stay away from Cali

[smyles]

When you point out relatively low income taxes in US, you need to understand that Americans also pay for many other things, either directly as taxes (state income, sales, property) or indirectly like medical, education, childcare expenses, or via higher consumer prices to cover the corporate taxes, employee benefits, etc.

[BMWinNorthdakota]

Originally Posted by scott_uw

I'm fairly annoyed by the fact you believe this, there was a 'hit job' of sorts in the American media about the Canadian healthcare system and, like many other things, your media portrayed it in a less than honest light.

Tommy Douglas, the instigator and creator of socialized medicine in Canada, was voted to by the "greatest canadian" of all time eight years ago. I'm not saying it was a perfect poll of 100% of Canada's population but what you are saying is on the whole wrong.

Canada's socialized medicine provides a far better /$ result than the American system(you spend ~$7.2k/year per capita iirc, canadians ~$3.9k/year per capita). We spend ~10% of GDP, you spend 16%. We live longer and have better preventative medicine, you have better specialists and the ability to have any groundbreaking operation you want in the US. I'm not saying the Canadian system is perfect(Australia's is better) but I would not trade healthcare systems with the US given the choice.

If you have time please watch an opposing view

As far as the failure of American public school system, chalk that up to severe underfunding. You could decrease the defense budget by 50% easily and still be a very secure nation, not sure whats up with that.

Given the choice to move for free, instead of living in Canada I would move to Australia/NZ or Nordic nations.

Tell me about the efficiency of the health care that you've experienced. I've heard the lines are GREAT and they prioritizes wonderfully.

As for the education system, in my book.. it is not a funding issue... Stossel did a peice a while back about the edu system in America it is quite interesting/enlightening. Watch it when you get the opportunity.

I'll watch that CNN video when I get the opportunity.

Originally Posted by DSB335d

Postal Service... I can't believe to this day people still think the postal service is run on tax dollars; It is not.

In fact the USPS is the only revenue producing entity of our government.

On the other hand the USPS is also poorly mismanaged just like every other branch of this nation.

While the USPS hasn't received taxpayer money since the mid 80's (if I remember right), it doesn't pay local/state taxes, receives subsidies, borrows money at reduced rates, and most advantageous of all..it is allowed to maintain its monopolistic position and would never be allowed to fail. This results in inefficiencies that are not mended by the market place like a typical industry do (Bad companies often fail and slip in to obscurity which results in the rise of better companies). The funny part is that after receiving all these benefits... it STILL cant run efficiently


It is the nation's largest creditor, debtor, lender, employer, consumer, contractor, grantor, property owner, tenant, insurer, health-care provider, and pension guarantor...the United State's Federal Government.

The government is big enough, it does not need to sponsor something like healthcare or mail


And OH... Murica' is still da fkin best bros


EDIT: just watched that CNN video and I feel like that just proved my point- "if you have a broken leg in Canada you may have to wait a day or two" rofl

[ianbiz]

Originally Posted by vioaltec

True on that literacy statement. Students from China have a better grasp of the English language than the majority of American students.

Originally Posted by MrRoboto

That was great. If only leaders had the balls to tell it like it is really existed these days.

[schoy]

Curious about the Stossel report re: education in the US, but don't have time to watch (maybe someone can provide Cliffs?).

From my experience (back when I assisted in my mom's tutoring program and gave lectures and presentations to academic-problematic kids and their parents), the fault lies 90% of the time with the parents. Rarely were the teachers to blame (not saying there aren't bad teachers), and even more rare were kids too stupid to learn (not saying kids don't have varying degrees of "intelligence"). Mainly, it came down to parental supervision and parental-directed motivation.

[len56]

Originally Posted by BMWinNorthdakota

"raise taxes"- yeah, right.

1) Its not a revenue problem, my Canadian friend, its the individuals in office who have the mentality that they have this unlimited check book funded by us (taxpayers): a SPENDING problem. And yes... overseas policing expenditures, I agree.

2)Regressive greedy people?

10% Bracket $0 – $17,400
15% Bracket $17,400 – $70,700
25% Bracket $70,700 – $142,700
28% Bracket $142,700 – $217,450
33% Bracket $217,450 – $388,350
35% Bracket Over $388,350

Here, take a look. Those "Greedy" people are giving up over 35% of their income up while people making little to nothing are paying virtually nothing in taxes. Wouldn't it be "fair" (yeah, I know... some of you reading this like that word) if they paid their share?

3) SOCIAL benefits

It is NOT the job of the government to "give benefits" to it's people. Notice anytime that the government gives it generally fails (think the postal service, Canadian health care (to the admission of many Canadians, along with its "creator" from what I gather), public schools in the united states, social security... the list goes on )

It is the governments job to enforce the laws and protect individual's right and liberty, to foster an environment that promotes private job creation, and to protects it's people's freedom by WHATEVER means necessary.


As far as stupidity in America goes, I guess I can't really argue that one... but then again the outrageous cases of stupidity are usually far more vocalized than normal intelligent levels. This is true and unfortunate, I hear far too much about the WBC, etc.. I do also hear about a whole bunch of scientific progress, so that keeps me positive

I think I want to be your friend.

1) I agree, It looks to me like you have more than enough money to build a basic eutopia, however instead people who like to build weapons and make money would rather be reducing other parts of the planets to rubble. Build up a good defense network and leave it at that, I'd say. (I know there are many complications, but would the radical Islam even hate you if you weren't all up in their business all the time?? Or literally creating their 'religion'... https://groups.google.com/group/tota...277ceea1a0673c The war machine is certainly interesting. )

2) Haha, I'm not that socialist. I didn't mean people who make good money. I applaud them. They pay enough. Most worked hard to get there. In fact it's my favorite part of capitalism. I don't even hate wall street bankers unless they are literally stealing from the poor to give to the rich (mortgage crisis?).

I was talking about the most regressive ones, the ones who are already massively rich, and still try [successfully] to corrupt your nation's politics so that they can make more money. That just makes me angry. If you have hundreds of millions of dollars, and are trying to get rid of the peoples rights so you can have some more, gtfo. On the other hand, if you built a good company that makes you a whole bunch of money, I think you're completely entitled to it.

3) Here we disagree. People in poverty do not help any country, what so ever. Even at the lowest, vanity level, who wants homeless people on their streets? With poverty comes many more important complications, like drugs and filth and murder and general 'ghettoness'.

Now I'm not one for those that would just leech off the system. I can see how people would get upset at that, and it's the point that I see mostly Americans make about more social systems. But there's a whole bunch of people stuck in ghettos who would love to get out, but they don't have the opportunity because of the situation they were born in. That's just awful. (this is of course not just a problem in america). I think the leeches tradeoff is necessary and won't be such a big problem. It's not exactly a fantastic life, having nothing to do.

Education has always helped in this regard. A more educated population is less criminal, more healthy, more happy. There will always be some bad eggs. But the numbers will be drastically reduced. America already has free education, but I hear people complain about the system (I know next to nothing about your public education myself). The way we educate needs to be brought up to the 21st century as well, but that's a whole different issue (ie. changing the way we learn/teach kids, a complete revamp of the way we do education around the world) You guys obviously have the best universities. Instead of funding more wars, funding more or better teaching would be appropriate. As for post-secondary, if you had them subsidized so more people could enter, I ensure your country would be a better place. I heard education in France is something like $250/semester?? Imagine that.

Like you said the government should ensure people's rights. I think healthcare is a right. I don't care how they get it. It can be universal, or the government can simply enact things that prevent the insurance companies from making bullshit policies, and not paying up to people who are desperately in need. For those who can't afford it, a benefit system should be in place (It's free if you're trying to better yourself, ie. going to school).

And here's what I love about America, summed up in one man:

eccentric

I have a strange pride for your country, I hope it does well. (then again I try to have pride for all humans ...until they prove themselves otherwise haha ). For that to happen, this old corrupt system has to go. You're going to need a ballsy, progressive leader who doesn't take shit from anyone. Like the founding fathers. This might be a little difficult.

[Vanity]

Originally Posted by BMWinNorthdakota

EDIT: just watched that CNN video and I feel like that just proved my point- "if you have a broken leg in Canada you may have to wait a day or two" rofl

I had a "sprained" ankle, not as severe as a broken leg, and I went to the hospital and was immediately put into the "fast-lane". Got to see a doctor within the hour (this is at a hospital, where lines do exist. If you book an appointment with your own doctor, that would not be the case). So no, the broken leg statement is quite ridiculous. You'd be first priority in line with a broken leg here, barring someone with a gun shot wound comes in and needs medical attention before you do (of which he does). Our health care system is based on a "most severe, first priority" manner. Which means when you need it, it always has your back. The only time where this is not true, would be with organ transplants, simply because our population is so small and finding a matching donor is why a waiting time exists. For organ transplants, I'd go to the United States. For everything else in life, Canadian Healthcare for sure.

[len56]

Originally Posted by BMWinNorthdakota

wow, that's enlightening. Can't say my experience here in Canada was anything like that.

Simple solution: if other countries are clearly doing it better, why not just copy them?

[BMWinNorthdakota]

Originally Posted by len56

wow, that's enlightening. Can't say my experience here in Canada was anything like that.

Simple solution: if other countries are clearly doing it better, why not just copy them?

I agree completely. If I remember right, Belgium has a policy that basically says if the school lacks in test scores/what have you (not sure of the exact criterion), they are simply shut down and the kids are moved to schools that are top notch.

This leads to constant innovations in teachings and continued efforts to figure out the best way to reach kids. The results are kids that are far more educated then what we pump out.

[kevinbahnz]

funny thing i was just watching waiting for superman on netflix the other night.

[Nutballa]

Originally Posted by vioaltec

Its more from experience. 1- I work at the Four Seaons Silicon Valley which is 15 minutes away from Stanford and we get alot of international students from China and Asia. The way they speak and carry themselves puts American students to shame. Not only students from China but students from South America and Europe. 2nd-When i went to Hangzhou to help open the new Four Seasons Hangzhou at West Lake, the Chinese trainees there knew how to properly use terms like "They, their, they're" unlike the American trainers- mind you these are people went to top hospitality schools like San Jose State and Cornell University. Maybe us Americans are just lazy?

[Nutballa]

Originally Posted by kevinbahnz

funny thing i was just watching waiting for superman on netflix the other night.

I've had this in my queue but have not watched it. Any good?

[Robin_NL]

The best country in the world to live would be Switzerland imo, but I'm not so fond of the mentality of the Swiss, so Italy/Tuscany it is, but no corruption and stuff....that would be no, eventually.

Then the south of France...I only speak un peu French....

Catalunya----> Now we're talking, but hey the crisis.....

UK near London:Just GREAT....but the damn weather just like overhere....

The southern part of Germany----> I love Freiburg Im Breisgau.

Maybe when we're old(er) we're going to find some appartment there.
Central EU.


First off to Spain next month and see what the realestate prices are....

Cheers
Robin

[leJUNd]

It's really hard to answer which country is best by asking where would you rather live. We have limited experience and all have different preferences and priority. I am pretty happy living in the US but this could change in an instant if you moved me to a different city. It might sound shallow but for me it's where I can consume the most. I like living in LA because there's everything. From food, clothes, food, cars, furniture, art, sporting goods, electronics, all sorts of services... whatever I demand, as long as I have money it's readily available.

I think the problem with education in the US stems from home not from the institution. I could be biased because I went to one of better public schools but from speaking to lot of the parents in the US... their priorities seem different than parents from different country.