[UdubBadger]

Originally Posted by The1

it just feels like the learning curve for people might be stunted with this.

maybe for like 3-4 people.... most of the learning curve around here has always been

Search archived photos > put in watermark > upload to flicker > hotlink image.

Or

Go outside your door, see something you can shoot, spend 5 min shooting it, "edit" for 10 min, submit.

[- Paul -]

Originally Posted by UdubBadger

maybe for like 3-4 people.... most of the learning curve around here has always been

Search archived photos > put in watermark > upload to flicker > hotlink image.

Or

Go outside your door, see something you can shoot, spend 5 min shooting it, "edit" for 10 min, submit.

We have never said (as far as I'm aware) that the images we submit for the contests have to be new.

If this was the case - it's easy enough to change the wording to ask that only new photos are submitted. As already voiced on Rodi's new contest thread though, I really feel we are losing our way with all the changes being made. The old system has always worked - never excluded anyone and had plenty of entries. This is a Car forum.

[UdubBadger]

Originally Posted by - Paul -

We have never said (as far as I'm aware) that the images we submit for the contests have to be new.

If this was the case - it's easy enough to change the wording to ask that only new photos are submitted. As already voiced on Rodi's new contest thread though, I really feel we are losing our way with all the changes being made. The old system has always worked - never excluded anyone and had plenty of entries. This is a Car forum.

you are 100% correct but also from the start, these contests weren't intended on being a "whos archives have the best photos in them" contest. a lot of these themes are meant to make people go out and shoot them in the time frame allowed, to learn something new and practice becoming a better photographer. It would be one thing to have a mix of both old and new but it really feels like the majority (not all but most) photos in a contest are ones that were shot BEFORE the contest was announced. A lot of times if people don't have a photo that fits, we don't see them enter the contest at all.

This might be a car forum but this is the photo section and we have PLENTY of people with enough skill, time and willingness to run a legit contest.

That being said, I see your point and maybe the few of us who want to see things get better around here are just being a little to ambitious in what to expect from the masses.

The old system might have "worked" but I don't think it was the best it could be because we still had a lot of shady stupid general forum-esque like behavior going on (you all know what I'm talking about). The goal of modifying it was to eliminate that and let the people who want to take these seriously enter and have a 100% reliable voting method on the quality images that deserve recognition.

Trust me I'm in way trying to make these contests "exclusive" or anything. I just want to see the people who take them seriously get a chance to shine and the others who don't really give a shit know that they can't do it that way anymore. Thats why I went for the judges thing. I think we all see a lot of genius in each others photos (well maybe most of us), its a shame when a good photo loses a contest to one that had votes from total randoms or a photo of something purely sensationalized to attract voters who couldn't even tell you what an aperture was. That is what I want to get rid of. If there are other means to do so, lets figure that out.

[- Paul -]

Originally Posted by UdubBadger

you are 100% correct but also from the start, these contests weren't intended on being a "whos archives have the best photos in them" contest. a lot of these themes are meant to make people go out and shoot them in the time frame allowed, to learn something new and practice becoming a better photographer. It would be one thing to have a mix of both old and new but it really feels like the majority (not all but most) photos in a contest are ones that were shot BEFORE the contest was announced. A lot of times if people don't have a photo that fits, we don't see them enter the contest at all.

This might be a car forum but this is the photo section and we have PLENTY of people with enough skill, time and willingness to run a legit contest.

That being said, I see your point and maybe the few of us who want to see things get better around here are just being a little to ambitious in what to expect from the masses.

The old system might have "worked" but I don't think it was the best it could be because we still had a lot of shady stupid general forum-esque like behavior going on (you all know what I'm talking about). The goal of modifying it was to eliminate that and let the people who want to take these seriously enter and have a 100% reliable voting method on the quality images that deserve recognition.

Trust me I'm in way trying to make these contests "exclusive" or anything. I just want to see the people who take them seriously get a chance to shine and the others who don't really give a shit know that they can't do it that way anymore. Thats why I went for the judges thing. I think we all see a lot of genius in each others photos (well maybe most of us), its a shame when a good photo loses a contest to one that had votes from total randoms or a photo of something purely sensationalized to attract voters who couldn't even tell you what an aperture was. That is what I want to get rid of. If there are other means to do so, lets figure that out.

I admire the sentiment and agree mostly - I'm aware that the way things are going currently could be seen as a bit "cliquey". This is what I personally wish to avoid. Anyone should be able to enter and their photo should be voted on. If a photo wins that you disagree with - that's the way it is - the forum voted. If it stops the regulars from posting I'd be surprised but if it happens and there are no entries for the contests then so be it. I don't think this will happen.

Why do you think that the contests could be better? How could you improve them? If the voting is still left visible - it should be fairly easy to spot any random voters.

Re searching the archives to fit - I always do that. I don't see anything wrong with it. I took the photo,why discount it just because the forum contest theme appeared after I took it?. I still learn from other entries, I'm still inspired by other entries. I still take photos. I still enter and I still vote.

[UdubBadger]

Originally Posted by - Paul -

I admire the sentiment and agree mostly - I'm aware that the way things are going currently could be seen as a bit "cliquey". This is what I personally wish to avoid. Anyone should be able to enter and their photo should be voted on. If a photo wins that you disagree with - that's the way it is - the forum voted. If it stops the regulars from posting I'd be surprised but if it happens and there are no entries for the contests then so be it. I don't think this will happen.

I agree that anyone should be allowed to enter and I don't think anything is wrong with that by any means. If I disagree with the winner thats fine, art is subjective anyway. However its a very different situation when you have a 2 technically sound photos against each other and when you have 1 sloppy photo with a "sensational" subject versus a much more technically stronger one and that unsound piece wins by popularity with the help of randoms or people who don't actually know what they are talking about and just think its "cool".
Just because you've never seen a Rolls Royce v12 engine before doesn't mean it was a better PHOTOGRAPH than a flower in a vase, ya know?

Originally Posted by - Paul -

Why do you think that the contests could be better? How could you improve them? If the voting is still left visible - it should be fairly easy to spot any random voters.

problem is we don't do anything about that, we just say oh hey, random guys voted on this one... they still won though. My thought was by making the voting 2 rounds - a judging of people who have displayed photographic knowledge and successfully won a contest (meaning the masses agreed they knew what they were doing) can choose the strongest ones for the theme they chose. Then we let the masses decide out of that group, which one was the best of the best. That to me sounds like how it should be done. People might not like it cuz they get left out now and then but that really just speaks to how much they want it. Do they just feel bad and say fuck it I don't want to be a part of this or do they work at getting better and more focused on the theme/subject so that the next time they are included in it?

Originally Posted by - Paul -

Re searching the archives to fit - I always do that. I don't see anything wrong with it. I took the photo,why discount it just because the forum contest theme appeared after I took it?. I still learn from other entries, I'm still inspired by other entries. I still take photos. I still enter and I still vote.

Not disputing that it shouldn't be allowed, I've done it too. I'm just pointing out that a lot of times the submissions I'm referring to barely fit the theme like they could/should. They aren't being carried out in a manner of seriousness to fit the theme as best as they can but rather stretch the theme as far as they can to make what they have already shot work for the contest. By doing so, it makes it seem that people don't take things seriously (I know these are for fun but a certain minimal level of seriousness should be maintained to keep things moving). I mean if I picked a theme of "water" how many people would go shoot something in their sink or bathtub and how many would make a 10 min drive to some sort of body of water they lived by? I would probably guess on a 70/30 split in favor of the bathtub. I just think that the people who make the effort should be rewarded more for doing so than the ones who half ass it just for the sake of doing it. Sure they can be a part of the contests but I see it as a real honor to be chosen as a winner amongst your peers as "the best" and if you're half assing it then why are you more deserving than someone who worked their butts off for it, especially when 9/10 times their photo is technically speaking more sound than the other?

[- Paul -]

Originally Posted by UdubBadger

I just think that the people who make the effort should be rewarded more for doing so than the ones who half ass it just for the sake of doing it. Sure they can be a part of the contests but I see it as a real honor to be chosen as a winner amongst your peers as "the best" and if you're half assing it then why are you more deserving than someone who worked their butts off for it, especially when 9/10 times their photo is technically speaking more sound than the other?

This is the only bit I disagree with. For me , if the pic of the bath is better than the pic of the lake or whatever, then the bath pic should win. It's not about the fact you drove for an hour/stood in rain/etc.

I don't think you always have to work hard to get a good photo.

The technical side is an issue and this can only be voted on by those that understand it - there is no way round this unless you can control those who vote to those that do (does that make sense?!). To remain inclusive - all forum members should be able to vote - even those that haven't a clue what f2 is etc.

[UdubBadger]

Originally Posted by - Paul -

This is the only bit I disagree with. For me , if the pic of the bath is better than the pic of the lake or whatever, then the bath pic should win. It's not about the fact you drove for an hour/stood in rain/etc.

I don't think you always have to work hard to get a good photo.

The technical side is an issue and this can only be voted on by those that understand it - there is no way round this unless you can control those who vote to those that do (does that make sense?!). To remain inclusive - all forum members should be able to vote - even those that haven't a clue what f2 is etc.

well looking at it again, it's a bit extreme. If the photo of the bath shows thought, good photo concepts and principles and stuff... then sure I have no problem with it. Its just that I think most times it wouldn't with the mentality of just shooting whatever is around. If someone does it with the proper concepts, thats totally different and of course I wouldn't have an issue with it, but again - the mentality is what bugs me.

I agree with your statements on the inclusiveness of the contest but I think you're missing the give/take of what the new voting did. Everyone was still allowed to vote, we just voted on the ones to make the poll. If that means maybe we choose MORE photos to make the poll larger, fine but I still think the contest creator should have some pull in who they think captured the theme the best out of all of the submissions. I really don't think it's fair if person A goes and shoots for the theme and nails it, exactly how its supposed to be done, and person B does something kind of like how its supposed to be done but has some sensational item in the photo. Then when we get to the poll time, person A gets a few votes from people who know what they're talking about/doing and B's photos gets a ton of votes yet was light years away from what the theme was actually about.

To me that part is more of an injustice than anything else.

[- Paul -]

I can see what you are getting at - I'm just mindful that this (especially to the non regulars) looks a lot "boys club".

[UdubBadger]

yeah I understand and be assured I don't want that. I just want it to be taken seriously (with fun in mind).

[Chewy734]

I know this is a bit late... but out of curiosity, how did rodi actually win this competition? I see a tie with Mark.

edit: n/m... I had to read Badger's ramblings over the past two pages to figure it out.

[UdubBadger]

cool story bro