[MiddleAgedAl]

Originally Posted by gtron

wall street journal:

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/...01792853334000

i also network with some execs that have tattoos but it's not my place to name drop.

As the article points out: "Mr. Hempel's various tattoos aren't visible when he's wearing his business attire."

That's a key distinction here (depending on how traditional/formal/conservative the industry is, of course).

I used to work at a place where a senior exec had tats, but they were also hidden. I had no idea until I saw him coming back from raquetball once, and he made damn sure no clients saw him that way. Ironically, he would not hire anyone with "visible" tattoos.

He actually said they were an indicator of a person's lack of judgement and foresight if they worked in a job where they had to project a reserved, professional image, and still elected to get them where they could be seen, thus potentially depriving the company of some valuable business from uptight folks who might otherwise be great, pay-the-bill-on-time clients.

What you did on your private time, or to private areas of your body, was not his concern.

He said that discussing whether a client was subjectively right or wrong to hold such views against ink was a waste of time. People have biases that influence big decisions, and it's rarely in your best interest to act as if that is not the case. He felt that the odds of you driving them elsewhere are far greater than the odds of you changing their mind, but you are welcome to try, as long as you dont do it while representing the company. I can't say his position was irrational.

[Never Convicted]

Originally Posted by gtron

wall street journal:

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/...01792853334000

i also network with some execs that have tattoos but it's not my place to name drop.

So...you made it up. A lawyer and a college professor who wears chopsticks in his ears translates to many executives at billion dollar companies. It's ok, you were trying to make a point. But please, I don't want to know how you know these execs you hang with have tats. That's just so wrong.

[Never Convicted]

Originally Posted by PINeely

WAIT! This changes everything! Finally tangible proof!

[gtron]

Originally Posted by Never Convicted

So...you made it up. A lawyer and a college professor who wears chopsticks in his ears translates to many executives at billion dollar companies. It's ok, you were trying to make a point. But please, I don't want to know how you know these execs you hang with have tats. That's just so wrong.

i made it up? that's so wrong?

i enjoy your posts.

[Lups]

Originally Posted by Never Convicted

So...you made it up. A lawyer and a college professor who wears chopsticks in his ears translates to many executives at billion dollar companies. It's ok, you were trying to make a point. But please, I don't want to know how you know these execs you hang with have tats. That's just so wrong.

I do know a couple, but they are on a different continent and billions is an overkill. They tend to keep their clothes on while working, I don't know if this is a problem here, but it seems to be a major issue, if body art can not be covered.

[Never Convicted]

Originally Posted by gtron

i made it up? that's so wrong?

i enjoy your posts.

Yours too. When I read your original post, I just got a mental image of a bunch of button down guys in a conference room ripping open their shirts and flexing their pecs so the Hula Girls would dance. Then Lups got in on it and nuked everything, like she does.

But you know in your heart that the lawyer in that 11 year old story is running a weed dispensary in Colorado, and the Cal Tech Professor is customizing Harleys now.

[gtron]

i'm actually surprised by how conservative a lot of people are. it opened my eyes a little. it won't change the things i do and i'll obviously still keep my next appointment but it's quality information to say the least.

turned out to be a cool thread, thanks.

[Never Convicted]

Originally Posted by Lups

I do know a couple, but they are on a different continent and billions is an overkill. They tend to keep their clothes on while working, I don't know if this is a problem here, but it seems to be a major issue, if body art can not be covered.

It's just business. It's been proven that people don't buy as many double soy skinny decaf lattes from barristas with Swastikas on their foreheads.

[Lups]

Originally Posted by Never Convicted

Yours too. When I read your original post, I just got a mental image of a bunch of button down guys in a conference room ripping open their shirts and flexing their pecs so the Hula Girls would dance. Then Lups got in on it and nuked everything, like she does.

But you know in your heart that the lawyer in that 11 year old story is running a weed dispensary in Colorado, and the Cal Tech Professor is customizing Harleys now.

Hey no blaming this on me! But I like the way your mind works! Could they be in their mid thirties and build well? And could there be some light babyoil accident? And would you please just PM me the image in it's full glory, and you would save my extremely dull, rainy day!

Damn, I really ruin these for you, don't I... oh well, it's for my personal gain...

[Lups]

Originally Posted by Never Convicted

It's just business. It's been proven that people don't buy as many double soy skinny decaf lattes from barristas with Swastikas on their foreheads.

A swastikas in a forehead is recommended, that way an idiot can be spotted miles away, and there is no risk of conversation. That's the male version of orange tan, tough many of you also prefer this last option.

[gtron]

Originally Posted by Never Convicted

Yours too. When I read your original post, I just got a mental image of a bunch of button down guys in a conference room ripping open their shirts and flexing their pecs so the Hula Girls would dance. Then Lups got in on it and nuked everything, like she does.

But you know in your heart that the lawyer in that 11 year old story is running a weed dispensary in Colorado, and the Cal Tech Professor is customizing Harleys now.

let me help settle your "mental image". lol as i mentioned before, i worked for quite a large corporation for several years. one of the perks of working for a company that large was the free gym in the building. if you've ever been to a gym then you know that you see all kinds of things in locker rooms (even things you don't want to see and can't unsee ). i still network with some of these people today. unfortunately, i've never seen an executive with anything extreme and/or any hula girls. nor have i ripped off my button down with anyone. i hope that doesn't destroy your mental image of me.

i think some people have a hard time separating the thought of someone having a limited amount or strategically placed tattoos. i believe their imaginations go right to the face, neck and hands. people can have tattoos and still look and be professional.

[Lups]

I already took credit for killing this while mentioning baby oil in a forum full of men. Thanks Gtron for proving me wrong.

[Templar]

Being an "executive" is not necessarily synonymous with being successful.

Let me ask this, exactly why is having a tattoo a negative thing? What exactly makes it a "negative perception?" Again, having ink on someone's skin doesn't impair them from doing their job (no matter what it is), right?

No one here is trying to justify a swastika on your face or a stripper on your arm as being professional, so I have no idea how or why that is even a part of the discussion.

[jerseymikes]

The bigots and racists are out to play today it seems.

[gtron]

Originally Posted by Lups

I already took credit for killing this while mentioning baby oil in a forum full of men. Thanks Gtron for proving me wrong.

any time.

Originally Posted by Templar

Being an "executive" is not necessarily synonymous with being successful.

Let me ask this, exactly why is having a tattoo a negative thing? What exactly makes it a "negative perception?" Again, having ink on someone's skin doesn't impair them from doing their job (no matter what it is), right?

No one here is trying to justify a swastika on your face or a stripper on your arm as being professional, so I have no idea how or why that is even a part of the discussion.

well said.

[Lups]

Originally Posted by jerseymikes

The bigots and racists are out to play today it seems.

Hey we had fun, and I learned a lot about corporate America. Apparently people run around naked. I'm starting job hunting tomorrow!

[954Stealth]

Originally Posted by Vic311

That's not ignorant. Tattoos are unprofessional in an office setting, especially in my field of finance and accounting. It's about perception; if our clients see a bunch of tatted, no sleeve guys running around the office it projects horribly on us as a firm.

One of our managers is ex-miltary and has tats all over his arms. The guy never wears a short sleeve shirt in the office because of it.

Personally, I think if you want to stand out more nowadays, then don't get a tatoo.

It's all a matter of perception. See, I think short sleeve shirts in the office are unprofessional.

[Vic311]

Originally Posted by Templar

Being an "executive" is not necessarily synonymous with being successful.

Let me ask this, exactly why is having a tattoo a negative thing? What exactly makes it a "negative perception?" Again, having ink on someone's skin doesn't impair them from doing their job (no matter what it is), right?

No one here is trying to justify a swastika on your face or a stripper on your arm as being professional, so I have no idea how or why that is even a part of the discussion.

It became part of the discussion when you called a member ignorant when they said they wouldn't get a tatoo because they have a professional career, remember???

On a side note I hope he was not banned over that because he was right on the money.

Originally Posted by jerseymikes

The bigots and racists are out to play today it seems.

I didn't invent prejudices, bigotry or racism they've been around long before me.

But hey you want to kick down doors, go for that Harvard MBA and then get the ink to go along with it. See how far you get on the interview circuit.

[Vic311]

Originally Posted by 954Stealth

It's all a matter of perception. See, I think short sleeve shirts in the office are unprofessional.

You are right to a certain degree. Casual Fridays and summertime being the exception.

Just don't be the guy with the short sleeve button down and the tie. That look just screams loser

[Never Convicted]

Originally Posted by Lups

Hey no blaming this on me! But I like the way your mind works! Could they be in their mid thirties and build well? And could there be some light babyoil accident? And would you please just PM me the image in it's full glory, and you would save my extremely dull, rainy day!

Damn, I really ruin these for you, don't I... oh well, it's for my personal gain...

Sorry, but my mental image was of paunchy middle aged guys with crew cuts, not male strippers. Think Chris Farley, not the Magic Mike guy.

[Lups]

Originally Posted by Never Convicted

Sorry, but my mental image was of paunchy middle aged guys with crew cuts, not male strippers. Think Chris Farley, not the Magic Mike guy.

My revenge will be horrible someday.

Thanks for saving my day.

[MiddleAgedAl]

Originally Posted by Templar

Again, having ink on someone's skin doesn't impair them from doing their job (no matter what it is), right?

No, and not wearing a tie doesnt impair your ability to do a job either, but there was a time when you'd be judged negatively for that also.

Human nature proves time and time again that people make judgments and assumptions based on appearance, and the nature of those judgments varies from 1 generation to the next, as social norms evolve. That's not news.

30-40 years ago, every man in an office wore a dress shirt and tie, and suits were common for all but the lowest on the ladder. The show Mad Men is fiction, but it's depiction of period appropriate dress is not. Today, you see casual pants, even jeans, are paired with dress shirts, or less formal collared shirts, or even t-shirts. Even at the c-suite level, ties are becoming more and more rare.

But, fact is, there was a time when anyone who showed up to a meeting without a tie, would be judged for doing so (silently or even openly). Their superiors would make assumptions about their professionalism, and their career development would be affected accordingly.

Even then you couldnt prove that wearing a tie around your neck makes the accounting work you do any better, but that didnt matter, it was the social norm of the time. Over time, the people who honestly thought your attire was a proxy for your ability and professionalism slowly retired out of the workforce, and things relaxed.

Acceptance of tats will unfold the same, but it's lagging by 20 years or so. But, until the old guys retire, work their way out of the system, there will be a stigma attached to visible tats too.

Cycle will continue. All the folks complaining about not being able to express themselves with a big nose ring today, will be 65 someday, in a position of real power, and will complain about the young kids who show up to work topless on hot summer days. The young kids then will complain about the uptight old guys who make them wear shirts, when being topless requires less A/C, is more green, and does not impair your ability to work on the next Mr. Fusion for your flying car.