Exhaust slut reviews the F80 M3 / F82 M4

[kitw]

[Sorry for those of you who stumble across this twice, but I posted it in another thread and ended up pontificating so long, I figured I'd make my own thread.]

In the last 5 years, I've owned:
08 Evo GSR
09 335i
09 Honda fit
09 BMW Z4
08 S2000
06 M5
11 M3
05 Elise
11 M3 convertible
09 911
12 GTI
12 M3
12 Hyundai Genesis
07 911tt
12 328i
13 M3
13 991 S
14 Evo X GSR
14 Chevrolet Corvette Z51
13 991 C4S
14 BMW 535d
11 M3

I currently have a 991 C4S and an E90 m3.

The F80 M3 is really quite fun to drive. BMW did a great job of creating a car with very accessible and fun dynamics. It is not the fastest or the stickiest thing out there, but the balance created is excellent.

I drove a 991 Turbo and a Turbo S yesterday, back to back with a 2011 997.2 Turbo. I was planning on getting a PDK P-Car, but I forgot how badly PDK sucked in the 997.2. The paddles are Mercedes slow and the car was laggy and handled like all 4 shocks were blown. Sad. The 991 was way better and quite an enjoyable drive - I couldn't really tell between the Turbo and Turbo S, either. (I also drove a 2014 GTR and a 2014 Jaguar F-Type S)

Anyway, that's just for some context. After that discouraging day of test driving, and not falling in love with any single package (991 turbos were too expensive, GTR is still a massive beast but not really a comfortable car at all, and Corvette cheap inside - I know, I also owned a 2014 Z51 Stingray as well, Jag F-type - what an exhaust but the automatic feels last generation and the combination of electronics and ergonomics were stupid - STOP HONKING AT ME YOU PIECE OF CRAP!) I ended up going to see the M3/M4. I told myself I'd wait until they got cheap and would do Euro delivery near Euro Invoice in a year or two, so I could have it as my second car to the P-Car.

But wow. These cars are really great to drive. BMW has done a great job and everyone is extolling the virtues. I drove an F82 M4 with steel brakes and the standard suspension and an M3 with CCMs and the adjustable suspension.

Here's the reality check:
- This car sounds... ok. It's not horrible but it's strange sounding and synthetic. Not even in the same realm of the last gen NA M cars (I've owned both V10 M5s and 5 V8 M3s and I love the way both cars sound with a slight but clear nod to the S85 V10 over the M3 motor.) But, we knew that already. It doesn't sound offensive, but especially the off idle exhaust note is just kind of weird, like the car is trying too hard to sound mean. It reminds me of the exhaust note equivalent of a chihuahua. rufrufrufufururfu. My 991 pipes sounds into the cabin and it sounds like a dustbuster in heat (the AWE Switchpath I had on it really opens it up and gives it lungs!) but it at least sounds like honest motor noise. The guy who drove the M4 before me got out shaking his head and said, "It sounds weird!" I mentioned that they pipe electronic sound into the car and he said, "Oh, that explains a LOT!"

It's very similar to the F10 M5/F12 M6 in sound, probably more similar to the M6 exhaust tuning (which is very similar but a touch more rowdy)

- the interior has a LOT of wins, and it's clearly upmarket from the E90/E92. Very nice primary materials, the seats feel great, as does the steering wheel (at least the leather) etc. However, without full leather, the F30 dash plastics are very Nissan looking and not in a good way. I was disappointed with the way they looked, especially with the goop the dealership detailed them with. (one was detailed one wasn't) The standard dash materials basically scream at you - YOU SHOULD HAVE GOTTEN FULL LEATHER

I think the upgraded materials (the standard extended leather adds some really nice detailing over the cloth/leather combination) around the center console, etc are great but they do make some of the cheaper materials look blah by constrast. I'd say that overall quality wise, the Audi interiors are still a bit more coherent and consistently upscale, but I much prefer BMW ergonomics. The controllers and navi are WAY better in the BMW.

- the navi screen is comically smaller than the F10. I guess I'm used to the way the system looked in my F10 535d M Sport, but it looks ridiculously small in the car. The screen is gorgeous and the controller is awesome, and overall the navi is great, but I wish they'd stuck a bigger screen in the car.

- The actual steering wheel feels a bit on the bus side in terms of size! It's size appropriate for the big ol' fatty F10 but in this little, extremely lithe and agile sedan (at least as far as 3550 lbs cars go) it feels too big from a diameter point of view.

- I was shocked how mushy the CCMs felt. Maybe they get better after break in but the steel brakes felt REALLY good with positive bite that made my E90 crazy jealous - they feel much more like the factory 6 piston Brembos in the 991. (the car had 10 miles on it when I drove it)

- There is a CRAPTON of headroom - anyone who felt that the E90 and E92 were short of headroom on the track with a helmet is REALLY going to love the F80/F82. The seats go nice and low.

- If you haven't driven both, definitely do so. The F82 does feel like a different car, but I prefer a fast sedan over a fast coupe, because I naturally compare the coupes with P-Cars and that is not exactly fair, given the practicality and near sedan size of the F82. But, they have a distinct personality, more so than the e90/e92 did, imho.

- I do NOT like that they did away with the adjustable thigh bolsters. They are pretty good, and definitely keep a coherent look to the seat, but I was sad because they are a little short for me and a little long for my wife.

- I was surprised how much I missed the ability to turn the car off with a single push of the button and then locking the car to turn off the ACC mode. I'm REALLY hoping I can code that in because its super annoying to go to lock the car only to have it squawk at you.

- The power is good in the low end but not quite as forceful as a shove as my 535d. I was hoping it would feel that much of a slam in the back but it's not nearly as sudden as the diesel motor. That said, the Diesel had HORRIBLE throttle response - part of which led to it feeling faster - you stomp on the pedal and... ... .. THEN IT GOES. It's not nearly as exciting as the E90 M3's S65, but it's also never going to end up in the torque hole you get when you stomp on an E90 M3 at 2000 rpm (especially with my Akrapovic Evolution before I got the dip tuned out!)

- The cars feel a LOT more agile and coherent in the corners than the E90/E92 did stock. I was surprised, they both ride better and feel more agile than the E90. This is VERY good.

- The BIGGEST NEGATIVE of the suspension is the ride height and offset of the stock wheels. The front of the car just looks disgustingly high compared to the rear. There is a proper ~1 finger gap in the back and the full 3 fingers in the front make it look like you went shopping for a load of bricks and are trying to bring them home without dragging the exhaust tips in the back. I was sad - I really hoped that the spring spacers were still on or something, but that was properly prepped. The wheels are ultra conservative too, from an offset point of view, you could easily fit an 18mm spacer front and rear, maybe even 20. The good news about this is that there is room for a ton of tire once we get some mods flowing (because the 275s are perfect for the stock power levels - they are at the edge of forward traction enough to make the car feel quick!) Anyway, call me a ricer or a krautboy and admittedly my E90 M3 is lowered on Ohlins, but it looks ridiculous.

Anyway, I'm likely going to buy one. But, I did want to present some of the things I didn't like, since most of the reviews have been overwhelmingly positive. I think a lot of that is the fact that this is the smaller HP delta of any new generation M-Car (possible exception of the S50B32 vs S54B32 in the E36 Euro vs E46.)

The M3/M4 are, once again, the standard at which the class will be measured against. I'm hoping this drives premium sporty coupes/sedans lighter in weight rather than in stupid silly horsepower wars. For all the M5/M6 owners... I really thought I was going to end up in an M5 or M6. The 135-145 horsepower difference seemed like it was overwhelming. The M3 is just so much more coherent a handler than the M5 or M6... it's clearly a small car going fast, rather than a big car with a stiff suspension that you can manhandle around corners. The M5/M6 put power down with a lot more grip but a lot less fun - you're going silly speeds before you really can have fun. The M3 is fun even during a test drive! And, the aftermarket is going to be ALL over these cars, I bet they make a ton of power very easily.

Hope this helps anyone on the fence!

[Sedan_Clan]

Exhaust slut? Wow, I've only encountered pizza sluts. You're on another level.

[kitw]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

Exhaust slut? Wow, I've only encountered pizza sluts. You're on another level.

hehe. I got named that by Sal @ evolve after writing a bunch of exhaust reviews for the e9x M3. I think I've owned nearly 30 different exhaust setups for the 5 E9x M3s I've owned.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by kitw

hehe. I got named that by Sal @ evolve after writing a bunch of exhaust reviews for the e9x M3. I think I've owned nearly 30 different exhaust setups for the 5 E9x M3s I've owned.

I like that nickname. LOL! It's catchy you slut!


P.S. You mentioned something about the car not shutting off with one push of the button. It usually shuts completely off once you open the door (..and coding can address other aspects of that). Did the ///M's you drove not shut off completely when the door opened? Or am I forgetting that I coded my 335i to do that? Damn, I'm getting old.

[FogCityM3]

Talk about having been around the block!

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by FogCityM3

Talk about having been around the block!

Ooooo, I like what you did there. You have gained 5 cool points for a creative one-liner.

[metrickid]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

I like that nickname. LOL! It's catchy you slut!


P.S. You mentioned something about the car not shutting off with one push of the button. It usually shuts completely off once you open the door (..and coding can address other aspects of that). Did the ///M's you drove not shut off completely when the door opened? Or am I forgetting that I coded my 335i to do that? Damn, I'm getting old.

One push of the button turns the engine of and if you lock the car from the outside or push the button again it turns of completely, at least here in Euroland!

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by Rossifumi

I push of the button turns the engine of and if you lock the car from the outside or push the button again it turns of completely, at least here in Euroland!

Ok, so I'm not going crazy. That's what I thought, and that's what my F30 does. I'm surprised that the ///M's he drove didn't do that.

[4/3rds]

Ok then. Clearly you want one and we love you for that. Besides the stance height/offset, what other "mods" will you be making? For example, what exhaust system? Excellent post BTW.

[M3guy3]

finally a review from someone who has owned a bunch of performance cars. clearly the old V8 will have its place in history.

[fabolous]

That post is way too long

[dawgdog]

Really nice thorough review. Thanks.

[IMrMark]

Great post, thanks, can't wait to give these a test drive as well!

[bvez3ro]

Nice review, thanks.

[dhoggm3]

Good info, thanks!

[signes]

Glad to see you made your own thread. Good to see a familiar name around from the E9x world.

[Bluehinder]

Past four cars have been 991 GT3, 991 C2S with sport suspension, latest M5, 997.2 Turbo S and currently own a new M4. I agree completely with what you said kitw.

Biggest disappointment for me was the M5.

It's not perfect, but I'm liking the M4 so far. For the money it has exceeded my expectations. Easy car to like. Needs a drop and spacers though.

[GrussGott]

Originally Posted by kitw

Hope this helps anyone on the fence!

Ok, first of all, for anybody from M3post you know this kind of knowledge bomb is standard fair from Kit.

If you're not a veteran of M3Post you should know - Kit's the MAN!

Sure, his reviews are great, but what's really special about him is his product testing. If there's ANYTHING you were thinking of buying for your M3/4 Kit will buy it first and review the feck out of it. It's just how he is.

In short, welcome aboard Kit!!

[GrussGott]

Hey Kit, I saw this same MG M4 at Stevens Creek a little bit ago ... I have to say I wasn't impressed by the looks and nobody was even looking at it. What did you think?

Granted driving it probably solves a lot of those problems, still ...

[tomwac]

Originally Posted by kitw

In the last 5 years, I've owned:
08 Evo GSR
09 335i
09 Honda fit
09 BMW Z4
08 S2000
06 M5
11 M3
05 Elise
11 M3 convertible
09 911
12 GTI
12 M3
12 Hyundai Genesis
07 911tt
12 328i
13 M3
13 991 S
14 Evo X GSR
14 Chevrolet Corvette Z51
13 991 C4S
14 BMW 535d
11 M3

I currently have a 991 C4S and an E90 m3.

Damn! ...

[budpaul]

Originally Posted by tomwac

Damn! ...

Insane u mean!

[Hujan]

Great review, kitw. I always loved your exhaust reviews. And we have similar tastes.

I will never understand why BMW cuts the fenders so high in the front relative to the rear. Would it kill them to make a car with even fender gap front to rear? Unfortunately, I worry that dropping the front too much relative to the rear will spoil the handling, but something has to be done!

The white F80 M3 with silver 437M wheels looks amazing, by the way. Absolutely love the way it looks (though it would be better with a CF roof).