A discussion about reliability (DCT in particular)

[GrussGott]

Originally Posted by modkrazy

Hell, maybe whatever malfunctioned in your unit will help them fix a design flaw/software error, so you may also get an updated unit.

A story one of my recent BMW service tow truck drivers told me ...

He towed a Z4 with an SMG with the same type of transmission malfunction - car wouldn't go into gear. Making the very long story short ...

* The local dealer couldn't fix after multiple attempts so BMW flew up a mechanic from Los Angeles

* The mechanic works on it for a full day and concludes the transmission is shot, sends for a new one from Germany

* The wrong transmission comes in and by this time it's going on 2 months

* The owner sells the car to the tow truck driver who then asks for the SMG transmission.

* The driver has a shop and knows nothing about the transmission but looks up everything and takes the thing apart and starts testing stuff

* The driver finds a blown sensor on a gear set that checks to see if the gear is there or not and orders a replacement - $16 post-paid from Germany

The car has driven like a champ since.

Anyway, my point is that it even BMW doesn't have their troubleshooting down for a transmission that's been out for years ... and the problem may just be a $0.50 sensor that nobody knows how to test.

[BimmerBoomer]

Originally Posted by GrussGott

Anyway, my point is that it even BMW doesn't have their troubleshooting down for a transmission that's been out for years ... and the problem may just be a $0.50 sensor that nobody knows how to test.

BMW has no intention of repairing DCTs - now, or in future. When the DCT in my 2010 M3 coupe starting throwing codes I was given a choice between driving it until it stopped working and replacing it for $14,000. Heck, they don't even stock simple parts in North America. I had to wait close to a month to get a pan from Germany. And that's a known weak point.

One thing I know for sure: I'll never again own a car with a DCT out of warranty.

[GrussGott]

Originally Posted by BimmerBoomer

One thing I know for sure: I'll never again own a car with a DCT out of warranty

whoa - good point! Well, I made that choice 15 years ago, no fancy cars out of warranty ... and that was back when I was willing to work on them. Now I don't even tools anymore beyond my cell phone to call a tow truck.

[1230vani]

I was suppossed to have the new M3 for the weekend (dealer likes me as I bought too many cars with them).

The problem is they cancelled because the car does not want to be put into gear. So looks like it is quite a common problem. Car is a week old I believe.

[mkoesel]

Hmmm. Munich, we have a problem?

(And yes, I know only the M4 coupe is built in Munich, M3 sedan and M4 cab are built in Regensburg)

Originally Posted by 1230vani

I was suppossed to have the new M3 for the weekend (dealer likes me as I bought too many cars with them).

The problem is they cancelled because the car does not want to be put into gear. So looks like it is quite a common problem. Car is a week old I believe.

[SteveSpy]

@dondula had a broken tranny and he had to deal with major BS at the dealership in order to get things fixed. And they still aren't fixed AFAIK... which kinda scares me a bit because I'm about to drop 85k on a car that has had its fair share of odd mechanical issues so far. This doesn't instill a lot of confidence in BMW for me right now, seeing as they have a recall out for the turbo hoses already. How many years has this car been in development now? 4? No excuse.

[modkrazy]

Originally Posted by sspyrops

@dondula had a broken tranny and he had to deal with major BS at the dealership in order to get things fixed. And they still aren't fixed AFAIK... which kinda scares me a bit because I'm about to drop 85k on a car that has had its fair share of odd mechanical issues so far. This doesn't instill a lot of confidence in BMW for me right now, seeing as they have a recall out for the turbo hoses already. How many years has this car been in development now? 4? No excuse.

Launch year gremlins. It's always the same. We thank you pioneers that will test the waters and ensure the rest of us get much better cars in a year or two.

[jbtco]

Originally Posted by modkrazy

Launch year gremlins. It's always the same. We thank you pioneers that will test the waters and ensure the rest of us get much better cars in a year or two.

Just as it is about to be replaced by the next model and it all starts again

[SteveSpy]

Originally Posted by modkrazy

Launch year gremlins. It's always the same. We thank you pioneers that will test the waters and ensure the rest of us get much better cars in a year or two.

[modkrazy]

Originally Posted by jbtco

Just as it is about to be replaced by the next model and it all starts again

We'll, F30 LCI is next year, so I expect ZCP/LCI for the F80 shortly after.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by sspyrops

@dondula had a broken tranny and he had to deal with major BS at the dealership in order to get things fixed. And they still aren't fixed AFAIK... which kinda scares me a bit because I'm about to drop 85k on a car that has had its fair share of odd mechanical issues so far. This doesn't instill a lot of confidence in BMW for me right now, seeing as they have a recall out for the turbo hoses already. How many years has this car been in development now? 4? No excuse.

Fair share? Hmmm....ONE DCT issue that is common amongst DCT's and ONE loose clamp on a non-delivered test car. Is that how we define "fair share" these days?

[jc05e46m3]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

Fair share? Hmmm....ONE DCT issue that is common amongst DCT's and ONE loose clamp on a non-delivered test car. Is that how we define "fair share" these days?

We find ourselves saying this over and over and over it seems. The negatives are what the forum members hear most about, because frankly, the negative things should be voiced in case others have the same issue or find out there's a way to avoid future trouble. Let's just not forget how many people already have taken delivery or bought dealer cars and they're doing just fine.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by jc05e46m3

We find ourselves saying this over and over and over it seems. The negatives are what the forum members hear most about, because frankly, the negative things should be voiced in case others have the same issue or find out there's a way to avoid future trouble. Let's just not forget how many people already have taken delivery or bought dealer cars and they're doing just fine.

+3

I think the owners who aren't aware of, or who don't frequent, internet car forums have inadvertently done themselves a huge favor and circumvented the inevitable neurosis that develops due to frequent forum involvement.

[Dinh335]

Originally Posted by jc05e46m3

Let's just not forget how many people already have taken delivery or bought dealer cars and they're doing just fine.

let's not also forget about the people that r not forum members who may have issues that we dont see here...it works both ways.

i've never been a fan of the "the negatives posts on a forum are overplayed" line of thinking. It's a mass produced car. tons of car owners also aren't forum posters. I'm not saying it's like the plague, but a bad issue on a mass produced car may happen again whether just 1 person posts about it or 20.

[jc05e46m3]

Originally Posted by Dinh335

let's not also forget about the people with problems that might not be forum members...it works both ways.

i've never been a fan of the "the negatives posts on a forum are overplayed" line of thinking. It's a mass produced car. tons of car owners also aren't forum posters. I'm not saying it's like the plague, but a bad issue on a mass produced car may happen again whether just 1 person posts about it or 20.

You're right, but the major issues get put on blast. Remember the E46? or the E92? All of the actual major design flaws of those cars were communicated on the forums. The enthusiasts get the info out, and that usually covers the 99% of problem areas. Fact is, N54 cars had issues on launch, E46 has issues, E92 had issues, and the F8x is definitely going to have issues as well. Part of the game. The cycle is always the same. The other thing is, even though things happen, BMW usually takes care of those who were affected.

[Dinh335]

Originally Posted by jc05e46m3

You're right, but the major issues get put on blast. Remember the E46? or the E92? All of the actual major design flaws of those cars were communicated on the forums. The enthusiasts get the info out, and that usually covers the 99% of problem areas. Fact is, N54 cars had issues on launch, E46 has issues, E92 had issues, and the F8x is definitely going to have issues as well. Part of the game. The cycle is always the same. The other thing is, even though things happen, BMW usually takes care of those who were affected.

I agree, but i think some of what happened in this crappy thread was an issue was presented then all of a sudden it was a "oh why you so pissed its common its the same dct, why you so pissed blah blah. , it's expected etc etc."

I think personally its sad that a car like this is "definitely going to have some issues" and the hint at the notion that we should just chill and relax and expect it. If I have it misread, then I apologize, but it sure comes off that way. Sure BMW takes care of you but that's nothing exceptional. IMO i'd rather they get it right the first time.

I'd like to simply hear how this ends up.

[jc05e46m3]

Originally Posted by Dinh335

I agree, but i think some of what happened in this crappy thread was an issue was presented then all of a sudden it was a "oh why you so pissed its common its the same dct, why you so pissed blah blah. , it's expected etc etc."

I think personally its sad that a car like this is "definitely going to have some issues" and the hint at the notion that we should just chill and relax and expect it. If I have it misread, then I apologize, but it sure comes off that way. Sure BMW takes care of you but that's nothing exceptional. IMO i'd rather they get it right the first time.

I'd like to simply hear how this ends up.

I don't think it's sad. That' simply part of engineering design. When you;re dealing with something that is incredibly strong, is marketed as something you can drive from the dealership to a track and be competitive, but still does other things right, there's inherently going to be issues. I would love for them to "get it right" the first time as well, but this i simply part of the engineering process. Nothing is going to be perfect the first time and that is something that people need to understand. I would be super pissed if I had a DCT and it failed and would probably be knocking down doors to get it back immediately, but having an engineering background, it makes it very hard for me to get riled up. They fix problems that arise and make changes as the model progresses in its life cycle. That's why I don't blame those who are waiting for the LCI.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by Dinh335

I agree, but i think some of what happened in this crappy thread was an issue was presented then all of a sudden it was a "oh why you so pissed its common its the same dct, why you so pissed blah blah. , it's expected etc etc."

If I have it misread, then I apologize, but it sure comes off that way.

You have misread and your quotes aren't stated correctly nor are they in context. Nearly everybody was empathetic from the very beginning. It wasn't until later in the thread that it shifted for other reasons.

[W///]

Originally Posted by jc05e46m3

I don't think it's sad. That' simply part of engineering design. When you;re dealing with something that is incredibly strong, is marketed as something you can drive from the dealership to a track and be competitive, but still does other things right, there's inherently going to be issues. I would love for them to "get it right" the first time as well, but this i simply part of the engineering process. Nothing is going to be perfect the first time and that is something that people need to understand. I would be super pissed if I had a DCT and it failed and would probably be knocking down doors to get it back immediately, but having an engineering background, it makes it very hard for me to get riled up. They fix problems that arise and make changes as the model progresses in its life cycle. That's why I don't blame those who are waiting for the LCI.

And it's not just even BMW. At the end of the day, cars are so complex now that it is bound to happen. You just hope it's not you. Look at how many cars GM and Toyota (of all people) are recalling these days. Ford lost a whole bunch of profits this year because they had to spend so much on warranty costs.

The days when you see a 525i E34 go 200k miles with nothing but common maintenance is over now unfortunately.

Having said that, I hope to get an F80 in about 3 years.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by W///

And it's not just even BMW. At the end of the day, cars are so complex now that it is bound to happen. You just hope it's not you. Look at how many cars GM and Toyota (of all people) are recalling these days. Ford lost a whole bunch of profits this year because they had to spend so much on warranty costs.

You Sir, are objective and rational. Well done!

[jzmundy]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

+3

I think the owners who aren't aware of, or who don't frequent, internet car forums have inadvertently done themselves a huge favor and circumvented the inevitable neurosis that develops due to frequent forum involvement.

I couldn't agree more.

[jc05e46m3]

Originally Posted by W///

And it's not just even BMW. At the end of the day, cars are so complex now that it is bound to happen. You just hope it's not you. Look at how many cars GM and Toyota (of all people) are recalling these days. Ford lost a whole bunch of profits this year because they had to spend so much on warranty costs.

The days when you see a 525i E34 go 200k miles with nothing but common maintenance is over now unfortunately.

Having said that, I hope to get an F80 in about 3 years.

Oh how I've missed your support here and totally logical method of reasoning.