Liqui Moly Ceratec

[Yuille36]

I'm curious to know how many of you actually use this stuff, and what is your impressions of it. My X5M is going in for an oil change on Wednesday, and I'm changing my current oil from Mobil 1 0W-40 to Liqui Moly 5W-40, to see if that helps mitigate the oil consumption issue.
I also bought a can of Liqui Moly MOS2 Additive, that I wanted to try first. I've heard a lot about LM Ceratec, but wanted to get some opinions. I've seen videos on Youtube testing this stuff, and their findings are neither positive or negative, so is this stuff just snake oil.
So, before I pay $60+ for 2 cans, I wanted to hear your stories first.

[Yuille36]

What nobody has used this stuff?

[YvesD]

Originally Posted by Yuille36

What nobody has used this stuff?

Save your $$ Buddy, additives won't do anything you can feel from the drivers seat or measure from an used oil sample, that's my experience anyway.

Honestly, regular oil changes will do far more good for the motor than the additive pack.

Yves

[Blue By You]

Originally Posted by Yuille36

What nobody has used this stuff?

I'm one of those people who overdo things... And as experts always remind me, too much of a good thing can be bad.

The higher weight/viscosity oil might be just fine and more than enough. The manufacturer and a lot of shops will recommend against oil additives.

I think you're on the right track with the oil. Maybe consider the oil flush and fuel cleaner too.

But when it comes to the additives, in my opinion, the best thing you can do is discuss your plan with Liqui-Moly.

I recommend contacting the company and discussing what they recommend as the best combination of products for your vehicle and mileage, driving style, etc.

Take the time to research this instead of becoming a horror story on here because you overdid it...

And please let us know what they say!

[Yuille36]

I just sent them an email. I really don't know about using a engine oil flush, and I don't want to mess seals and O-rings. But, I have used their Jectron fuel injector cleaner.
I just really wanted to hear of owners experience using Ceratec.

[KCTiger]

I would call them. I have called them twice and they got back to me within the day both times.

I am pretty sure I asked them about additives for our ride. I am also pretty sure they said their oil on its own is what they would recommend. I do know that both times I called they recommended Leichtlauf oil.

[masa52]

if you have oil consumption fix your engine then,
I never topping up any oli between oil intervals
healthy engine doesn't need any stuff like this

[Melbourne_X5M]

It might be worth mentioning that the OM plainly states not to use additives in the engine oil. FWIW

[Blue By You]

Originally Posted by Melbourne_X5M

It might be worth mentioning that the OM plainly states not to use additives in the engine oil. FWIW

Agreed with you and the last two posts before yours.

As mentioned in this thread, the OM recommends against additives. My indy recommended against it too. Although it's tempting to use it (I've been intrigued too), might actually work against what you're trying to accomplish...

I read somewhere that the recommended oil type also has to do with (maybe sensitivity? of the) Valvetronic system. But that's about as much as I know about that.

My vehicle is a CPO and they're using the FE 0w-30 which is tough to duplicate with any other brands or weights/viscosities. (My OM specifies FE oil only, despite many people talking about how LL-01 is okay - according to my SA shop foreman it's FE and that's it.)

A lot of misinformation out there. So be careful! And I agree with calling Liqui-Moly to talk to someone live. Too much money involved to make a mistake.

[Thecastle]

So I would not use thicker than recommended oil on these engines. Thicker oil to mask consumption also can mean reduced lubrication due to thicker oils resistance to flowing into tight clearance areas like the rod bearings.

I have used Ceratec in all of my BMWs, 2011 335D, 2016 550i, 2011 X5M and 2013 Mini Cooper S. The results are the same, the engines run noticeably smoother and quieter especially at idle. Fuel economy while towing is better on the X5M going from an average of 7.2-8.5mpg to 8.5-9.8 mpg. Daily driving no difference I can detect. I have used MoS2, in my rear diff and found no difference.

Project Farm tested it and it did reduce fuel consumption and internal friction slightly. Is it worth 2 cans. Up to you, but don't expect it to reduce your oil consumption.

If you want to reduce oil consumption use Lucas Oil or AT-205 (which works great) if its an oil seal issue.

You've probably got bad valve stem seals. Yes, they go on the S63TU as well.

[Yuille36]

I’ve read all the comments, and I’ve decided that I’m not going to use LM Ceratec, but will use the MOS2 additive, it’s only 10oz added to 9.5 quarts of oil. I haven’t heard anything negative about using this.

[Sophisticated Redneck]

I am huge fan Liqui Moly leichtlauf 5-40. I also run 1.5 cans Mos2 with each 5K oil change and then Ceretec once every 30K instead of the Mos2. Below are pics from the N63 in my E70 This is at 138K Miles when I did the infamous n63 valve stem seals (same valve stem seals are still used in the S63TU btw).. N63 has the same internals as S63 save for upgraded forged pistons/rods. It has a stage 2 tune and pushing power levels of that of a stock S63.

You can see in the pics below it cleaned up nicely (I pulled the heads to decarbonize everything and refresh the valve seats and clean valves/pistons as it was burning a liter every 500-700 miles and had extensive carbon buildup). The cam journals and cylinder walls look excellent for this many miles.

Original N63/S63 arguably has a rougher life then the S63TU in F85/86. BMW learned how to actually turn on the cooling fan and upgraded some of the heat exchangers on the F85/F86
Engine is now at 169K miles and still knocking out a low 4 second 0-60 and low 12 second 1/4mile. Not to shabby for a 9 year old original engine near 170k miles 5500lb tank.

Needless to say I am big believer in both Liqui-Moly and additives. Could be mainly just the oil but its working for me so not going to change it and I highly recommend it to all over-powered SUV drivers . If it does this good in the original problem child reverse flow hot V engine, I think its a fantastic choice for the S63TU in the F85/86.

[Sophisticated Redneck]

Originally Posted by Yuille36

I’ve read all the comments, and I’ve decided that I’m not going to use LM Ceratec, but will use the MOS2 additive, it’s only 10oz added to 9.5 quarts of oil. I haven’t heard anything negative about using this.

A tip on the MOS2, its VERY thick stuff. Poor 2 liters or so of oil in first when changing the oil, then poor the MOS2 into the 5 liter oil jug with the 3 liters that is still in there and shake it up, then poor it into engine followed with rest of the oil. This ensures its already pre-mixed before it ever hits the oil pump.

[Yuille36]

This is the reply that I just received from Liqui Moly.

Dear William,

thank you very much for contacting us and your interest in our LIQUI MOLY products.

According to our database BMW requires a motor oil with BMW LL-01 FE performance in either SAE 0W-30 or SAE 5W-30 viscosity for use in yor S63T engine. The use of a non- LL-01FE approved motor oil in another viscosity is not recommended.

For your X5 M our Special Tec B FE SAE 5W-30 is our recommended oil, it has the necessary LL-01 FE factory approval and is ideally suited for the use in your S63T engine.
To avoid excessive wear even under heavy use and to further improve the performance of your X5 we also recommend you the following products:

Use our Pro-Line Engine Flush at the next oil change. It will remove dirt, sludge, carbon etc. from the inside of the engine which will help the new oil to perform as best as possible from the beginning on. Further it will also remove carbon build up at the piston ring groves which will allow the rings to float freely and raise compression. A very effective way to extend the life of any engine, to optimize the oil consumption and to improve performance. For preventive maintenance we recommend using Pro-Line Engine Flush at every 2nd - 3rd oil change.
Add Cera Tec to the fresh motor oil to further increase wear protection and reduce friction. Cera Tec is a combination of a chemical surface protection and a solid lubricant. It is our latest high-tech additive formulation for less friction and wear in the engine. It has proven itself worldwide even under extreme conditions in races and will protect your engine even under tough operating conditions. The ideal dosage of Cera Tec is at around 6-7% of the total motor oil volume.


To maintain the sensitive fuel system of your engine we recommend you to use our DIJectron as preventive fuel treatment regulary every around 2400 miles. DIJectron is a unique combination of state-of-the-art LIQUI MOLY additives, developed in order to keep clean and protect the fuel system of modern, direct fuel injected (GDI) engines. Using DIJectron will significantly reduce the risk of having an LSPI event caused by deposits at the injectors and inside the combustion chamber.

Please observe the product information which you can see by using these links:

21380-SpecialTecBFESAE5W-30-10.0-us.pdf (liqui-moly.de)
2427-Pro-LineEngineFlush-53.0-us.pdf (liqui-moly.de)
3721-CeraTec-46.0-us.pdf (liqui-moly.de)
22076-DIJectron-13.0-us.pdf (liqui-moly.de)

We hope we could help you with our information. Should you have further questions regarding our products we would be very pleased to get contacted from you again.


Freundliche Grüße / Best regards

i. A. Steffen Niemietz
Anwendungstechniker
application engineer

F & E / Anwendungstechnik

Phone: +49 731 1420-658
Mobil: +49 162 2815064
Fax: +49 731 1420-44658
steffen.niemietz@liqui-moly.de

LIQUI MOLY GmbH
Jerg-Wieland-Straße 4 | 89081 Ulm | GERMANY

www.liqui-moly.com

[Blue By You]

Originally Posted by Yuille36

This is the reply that I just received from Liqui Moly.

Dear William,

thank you very much for contacting us and your interest in our LIQUI MOLY products.

According to our database BMW requires a motor oil with BMW LL-01 FE performance in either SAE 0W-30 or SAE 5W-30 viscosity for use in yor S63T engine. The use of a non- LL-01FE approved motor oil in another viscosity is not recommended.

For your X5 M our Special Tec B FE SAE 5W-30 is our recommended oil, it has the necessary LL-01 FE factory approval and is ideally suited for the use in your S63T engine.
To avoid excessive wear even under heavy use and to further improve the performance of your X5 we also recommend you the following products:

Use our Pro-Line Engine Flush at the next oil change. It will remove dirt, sludge, carbon etc. from the inside of the engine which will help the new oil to perform as best as possible from the beginning on. Further it will also remove carbon build up at the piston ring groves which will allow the rings to float freely and raise compression. A very effective way to extend the life of any engine, to optimize the oil consumption and to improve performance. For preventive maintenance we recommend using Pro-Line Engine Flush at every 2nd - 3rd oil change.
Add Cera Tec to the fresh motor oil to further increase wear protection and reduce friction. Cera Tec is a combination of a chemical surface protection and a solid lubricant. It is our latest high-tech additive formulation for less friction and wear in the engine. It has proven itself worldwide even under extreme conditions in races and will protect your engine even under tough operating conditions. The ideal dosage of Cera Tec is at around 6-7% of the total motor oil volume.


To maintain the sensitive fuel system of your engine we recommend you to use our DIJectron as preventive fuel treatment regulary every around 2400 miles. DIJectron is a unique combination of state-of-the-art LIQUI MOLY additives, developed in order to keep clean and protect the fuel system of modern, direct fuel injected (GDI) engines. Using DIJectron will significantly reduce the risk of having an LSPI event caused by deposits at the injectors and inside the combustion chamber.

Please observe the product information which you can see by using these links:

21380-SpecialTecBFESAE5W-30-10.0-us.pdf (liqui-moly.de)
2427-Pro-LineEngineFlush-53.0-us.pdf (liqui-moly.de)
3721-CeraTec-46.0-us.pdf (liqui-moly.de)
22076-DIJectron-13.0-us.pdf (liqui-moly.de)

We hope we could help you with our information. Should you have further questions regarding our products we would be very pleased to get contacted from you again.


Freundliche Grüße / Best regards

i. A. Steffen Niemietz
Anwendungstechniker
application engineer

F & E / Anwendungstechnik

Phone: +49 731 1420-658
Mobil: +49 162 2815064
Fax: +49 731 1420-44658
steffen.niemietz@liqui-moly.de

LIQUI MOLY GmbH
Jerg-Wieland-Straße 4 | 89081 Ulm | GERMANY

www.liqui-moly.com

Good share!

That Special Tec oil they recommend doesn't seem that special. It's got a low flash point and a high Noack value.

I also found this about the BMW oil FYI - https://blog.fcpeuro.com/why-bmws-sw...-doesnt-matter

One guy posted a comment below that video and pointed out that "It’s important to note that the LL-01FE has a 3.5 HTHSvis. This is higher than API OW30 GF-5 lubes such as Mobil 1 0W30 AFE which have a 2.9 HTHSvis." If that's true, then the BMW oil has a higher HTHS rating than the Special Tec which is 3.0. Unless he was talking about the 5w, because the FE nature of the oil might change things.

There is so much information and debate around oils out there! It's confusing...

Seems like the perfect world would be an FE 0w-40 for the higher summer temps, but it doesn't seem to exist. The 5w only seems to work against the engine on cold starts especially, and on the initial coating of smaller parts. (Valvetronic? etc.)

I'll be sticking with the BMW oil at least for now while I'm under CPO. Might also do the fuel and oil flushes with my indy. Then later out of CPO consider 5w-40. Because there's too much debate and I pushed my SA on this to the point where the shop foreman emailed him back and specified the BMW oil only.

Hope that information helps too. Thanks again for your post.

[Deckdout2]

Originally Posted by Northeastern X5M

Good share!

That Special Tec oil they recommend doesn't seem that special. It's got a low flash point and a high Noack value.

I also found this about the BMW oil FYI - https://blog.fcpeuro.com/why-bmws-sw...-doesnt-matter

One guy posted a comment below that video and pointed out that "It’s important to note that the LL-01FE has a 3.5 HTHSvis. This is higher than API OW30 GF-5 lubes such as Mobil 1 0W30 AFE which have a 2.9 HTHSvis." If that's true, then the BMW oil has a higher HTHS rating than the Special Tec which is 3.0. Unless he was talking about the 5w, because the FE nature of the oil might change things.

There is so much information and debate around oils out there! It's confusing...

Seems like the perfect world would be an FE 0w-40 for the higher summer temps, but it doesn't seem to exist. The 5w only seems to work against the engine on cold starts especially, and on the initial coating of smaller parts. (Valvetronic? etc.)

I'll be sticking with the BMW oil at least for now while I'm under CPO. Might also do the fuel and oil flushes with my indy. Then later out of CPO consider 5w-40. Because there's too much debate and I pushed my SA on this to the point where the shop foreman emailed him back and specified the BMW oil only.

Hope that information helps too. Thanks again for your post.

I got the same from my SA and PA at my local BMW dealership.

Noting that the BMW specific oil is thinner to allow it to cover and protect the tighter tolerances of the valvetrain. The thicker LiquiMoly 5W40 is good for suppressing how much oil is burned but wasn't recommending because the viscosity is thicker and may not coat internals as well.

I'm over here like wtf.....I'll stick with OEM oil I guess as long as I have the maintenance package and they're changing it for free.

[DgjoX6M2016]

Originally Posted by Yuille36

I'm curious to know how many of you actually use this stuff, and what is your impressions of it. My X5M is going in for an oil change on Wednesday, and I'm changing my current oil from Mobil 1 0W-40 to Liqui Moly 5W-40, to see if that helps mitigate the oil consumption issue.
I also bought a can of Liqui Moly MOS2 Additive, that I wanted to try first. I've heard a lot about LM Ceratec, but wanted to get some opinions. I've seen videos on Youtube testing this stuff, and their findings are neither positive or negative, so is this stuff just snake oil.
So, before I pay $60+ for 2 cans, I wanted to hear your stories first.

I just started using it. The orange gunk! Can't provide any empirical info on it. Sorry.

[YvesD]

The thicker LiquiMoly 5W40 is good for suppressing how much oil is burned but wasn't recommending because the viscosity is thicker and may not coat internals as well.

5 - 40 is an approved grade for this engine though so it must provide sufficient protection....

Also notice that all of these aftermarket additives do in fact make the base oil very slightly thicker.

I'm thinking this must be linked to the reduced wear claims given that we know the 5-30/40 grade has better protection at operating temps.

Unless you are routinely starting the motor in -25c temps (not many of us I guess), the 5 - grade is fine.

[Blue By You]

Originally Posted by YvesD

The thicker LiquiMoly 5W40 is good for suppressing how much oil is burned but wasn't recommending because the viscosity is thicker and may not coat internals as well.

5 - 40 is an approved grade for this engine though so it must provide sufficient protection....

Also notice that all of these aftermarket additives do in fact make the base oil very slightly thicker.

I'm thinking this must be linked to the reduced wear claims given that we know the 5-30/40 grade has better protection at operating temps.

Unless you are routinely starting the motor in -25c temps (not many of us I guess), the 5 - grade is fine.

I have a 2017 F85. 5w-40 is "approved" only if it's LL01-FE. Otherwise my OM states that I can add "up to 1 quart" of other (spec I forget right now) oil.

That's where some of the confusion lies. A lot of people talk about LL01 being okay for this engine. That's not true for my engine though. The OM and my M certified shop foreman both specify LL01FE. LL01 without the FE is not approved.

Do you know of a 0w-40 (ideally) or a 5w-40 that is FE approved? I've only seen them in 0w-30.

[YvesD]

Appreciate the US spec engines have slightly different oil requirements due to your high sulphur content fuel.


My OM says I can use LL01, LL01 FE, LL04 and LL12 FE for fill ups and top ups.

Will have a look at the Shell Helix Ultra 5 - 40 LL01 I've got for the next oil change for the FE rating and come back...

OK the Shell product is just LL01.

FE rating is specifically for fuel economy isn't it? Nothing to do with engine protection as such?

[YvesD]

To add to above, just some personal observations on my car.

I've been running 0 - 30 LL04 (not FE) for the past 12000 miles.

There is no wear evident on the engine according to oil lab analysis and she's averaged approx 19mpg over that time.

What's not to like 🤔

[Blue By You]

Originally Posted by YvesD

Appreciate the US spec engines have slightly different oil requirements due to your high sulphur content fuel.


My OM says I can use LL01, LL01 FE, LL04 and LL12 FE for fill ups and top ups.

Will have a look at the Shell Helix Ultra 5 - 40 LL01 I've got for the next oil change for the FE rating and come back...

OK the Shell product is just LL01.

FE rating is specifically for fuel economy isn't it? Nothing to do with engine protection as such?

FE is for fuel economy. Unfortunately FE approved oil is the only oil approved for regular usage in my engine. (As I mentioned, I can top off with others but that's it...)

A lot of people confuse the LL01 with the LL01 FE. You're lucky that you can use all of those other types of oil! I would love to be using that Motul Sport 5w-40 because the flash point is very high and the Noack value is very low.