Engine flush and ceratec?

[christianfayb]

Who has actual experience with LM Engine Flush and Ceratec?

Picked up an F85 a few months ago and I have always been a huge proponent of sticking to the oil grade on the cap and no addittives ever. LM telling me to move to 5w30 but Ill stick with 0w30 in the manual. Car has about 51k miles on it. I do track it from time to time for fun. I know people report the f85 to burn oil but i have not experiences any of that yet.

[Blue By You]

Originally Posted by christianfayb

Who has actual experience with LM Engine Flush and Ceratec?

Picked up an F85 a few months ago and I have always been a huge proponent of sticking to the oil grade on the cap and no addittives ever. LM telling me to move to 5w30 but Ill stick with 0w30 in the manual. Car has about 51k miles on it. I do track it from time to time for fun. I know people report the f85 to burn oil but i have not experiences any of that yet.

Extensive information and opinions on here and online in general. I've done a TON of research and had a lot of discussions with people who know a lot more about oil than I ever will...

IMO LiquiMoly is good oil. But despite many indy shops supporting it (including both of mine), I think you can do better.

I highly recommend one of the following, in order of how much you want to adhere to factory/warranty specifications:

- Motul Specific 5W30 (if your M specifies 0W30 LL01-FE like mine, this is approved, flows great with a 3.4 HTHS) https://www.motul.com/us/en-US/produ...ll-01-fe-5w-30 Right now this is my winter oil.

- Motul Excess Gen2 5W40 (if you want an amazing LL01-approved oil with better specs than almost anything in the same grade, has great flow with 3.8 HTHS, great for a daily driver that gets hammered and/or tracked) https://www.motul.com/ca/en-US/produ...ess-gen2-5w-40 This will be my summer oil and I might just use it year round we'll see.

- Motul Sport 5W40 (if you are not concerned with approvals and want an insane Ester-based 5W40 with good flow and 4.0 HTHS, better for a tuned/tracked vehicle) https://www.motul.com/us/en/products/sport-5w40 I thought I wanted this until someone educated me on oil and it seems to be a little thick and overkill unless car is consistently killed or tracked.

I would still change the oil every 4-5K regardless of what you use. Engine Flush seems like a great product to use on up to every oil change. But Ceratec is not necessary if using one of these oils - or any good oil - based on what I've learned about oil and the valvetronic system in our Ms.

Hope that helps.

[J0hnnyB0yx5m]

I've been using this https://www.ecstuning.com/b-liqui_mo...ter/20232~liq/ for past couple oil changes haven't had any probs.. wish there was just a simple way to know what the hell is best stuff to use but everyone e has there own opinion and no real facts to says what's best for our motors so read up and make your opinion lol good luck

[christianfayb]

Originally Posted by J0hnnyB0yx5m

I've been using this https://www.ecstuning.com/b-liqui_mo...ter/20232~liq/ for past couple oil changes haven't had any probs.. wish there was just a simple way to know what the hell is best stuff to use but everyone e has there own opinion and no real facts to says what's best for our motors so read up and make your opinion lol good luck

the only thing i would ever take as fact is what the oil cap/manual says. Any deviation from that comes down to preferance and experience. I know LM recommends a different grade oil for my car but Im not sure I will actually accept that.

[christianfayb]

Originally Posted by Blue By You

Extensive information and opinions on here and online in general. I've done a TON of research and had a lot of discussions with people who know a lot more about oil than I ever will...

IMO LiquiMoly is good oil. But despite many indy shops supporting it (including both of mine), I think you can do better.

I highly recommend one of the following, in order of how much you want to adhere to factory/warranty specifications:

- Motul Specific 5W30 (if your M specifies 0W30 LL01-FE like mine, this is approved, flows great with a 3.4 HTHS) https://www.motul.com/us/en-US/produ...ll-01-fe-5w-30 Right now this is my winter oil.

- Motul Excess Gen2 5W40 (if you want an amazing LL01-approved oil with better specs than almost anything in the same grade, has great flow with 3.8 HTHS, great for a daily driver that gets hammered and/or tracked) https://www.motul.com/ca/en-US/produ...ess-gen2-5w-40 This will be my summer oil and I might just use it year round we'll see.

- Motul Sport 5W40 (if you are not concerned with approvals and want an insane Ester-based 5W40 with good flow and 4.0 HTHS, better for a tuned/tracked vehicle) https://www.motul.com/us/en/products/sport-5w40 I thought I wanted this until someone educated me on oil and it seems to be a little thick and overkill unless car is consistently killed or tracked.

I would still change the oil every 4-5K regardless of what you use. Engine Flush seems like a great product to use on up to every oil change. But Ceratec is not necessary if using one of these oils - or any good oil - based on what I've learned about oil and the valvetronic system in our Ms.

Hope that helps.

Where do you live that you are swtching oils in the summer/winter? I dont see any benefit in doing that given the temperature ranges these oils safely operate in. The only negative to going to 5w vs 0w is the slightly thicker oil takes longer to come to temp and doesnt coat as well for the tigher areas that a 0w can get through. Ive been back and forth on oils for years and have nevber deviated from what manual. Sure i track the car but its not a race car.

[Blue By You]

Originally Posted by christianfayb

Where do you live that you are swtching oils in the summer/winter? I dont see any benefit in doing that given the temperature ranges these oils safely operate in. The only negative to going to 5w vs 0w is the slightly thicker oil takes longer to come to temp and doesnt coat as well for the tigher areas that a 0w can get through. Ive been back and forth on oils for years and have nevber deviated from what manual. Sure i track the car but its not a race car.

I just started typing and I feel like this is a late-night ramble, but I'm leaving it here in hopes that it helps even a little bit:

I live in Massachusetts and we can have some wide temperature ranges. But the real reason that I have switched so far is because I started out with the BMW OEM 0W30. Then I used Red Line 0W30 and LM Engine Flush to clean everything out. Then I used the Motul Specific to stay with a BMW-approved FE oil. During that time I did all of the research I mentioned to you, and was debating using the two oil grades since the FE would be better for cold cranking during the winter. (My indy liked the idea of using an FE in winter and 5W40 in warmer months) But I get your point about standardizing on one, which I might do instead.

The Motul Specific 5W30 doesn't take any longer to come up to temp than the BMW 0W30 oil. It's BMW LL01-FE approved, so it's a non-issue. The benefit is that the viscosity is still very low for good flow and the HTHS at 3.4 is higher than the BMW OEM 0W30 which I understand is more like 3.0-3.1. (Although I did hear that the BMW OEM 5W30 has similar stats to the Motul at about 3.4, just haven't been able to confirm that.)

The other thing that is confusing is that my M specifies FE oil, both in the owners manuals and in the onboard computer. But if you read up enough, you'll see a lot of people talking about how LL01 is acceptable. (although my manual states otherwise, unless it's necessary to use a different grade up to 1 quart)

To make things more confusing, my indy confirmed that LL01 is an acceptable oil in my vehicle through their online system. And my dealership used my own provided Red Line 0W30 (not approved but "FE-compatible") for my last oil change. Go figure! It's confusing my man...

IMO you can't go wrong with almost any strong/widely used oil out there. (BMW, Mobil, Castrol, LiquiMoly, Motul, Amsoil, Red Line) LiquiMoly seems to be the most popular brand, but the stats are just okay compared to some of the other oils.

Some of the oils like Amsoil and Red Line are not approved. And if they have one that is approved, the stats are poor. That's why my recommendation is Motul. Other than the Sport 5W40, they are approved and their stats are better than the others I've seen. The bonus is that you can switch between them if you want to, but you certainly don't need to.

Our manuals prohibit additives. So if you're not going to deviate from the manual, don't use Ceratec. It would not be good if you had any engine issues and they were able to find an additive in there. (Not sure how strict they are about testing oil, but if they can avoid paying for your huge repair bill they might try!) But my indy swears by Engine Flush on every oil change, regardless of the oil coming out or going in.

[Sophisticated Redneck]

Originally Posted by J0hnnyB0yx5m

I've been using this https://www.ecstuning.com/b-liqui_mo...ter/20232~liq/ for past couple oil changes haven't had any probs.. wish there was just a simple way to know what the hell is best stuff to use but everyone e has there own opinion and no real facts to says what's best for our motors so read up and make your opinion lol good luck

Oil is like religion and politics, you will find incredibly passionate opinions on the matter. I can only speak from what I have experience with - a 10 year old, near 180,000 mile n63 that is tuned to S63TU power levels and is driven HARD every day. The bottom half of this engine is nearly identical to the S63TU in the F85, sharing the same connecting rods and bearings, oil pump, etc.

I use LM 5-40 Leichtlauf and 2 Cans of LM Mos2 additive every 5K change and every 30K miles I switch out the Mos2 for Ceretec. It still runs a high 11 second 1/4 mile, even after 10 years of nearly 180k miles. IMHO I believe the MOS2 is key to this. Our engine platform is extremely susceptible to LSPI (Low Speed Pre Ignition), also known as superknock, especially when tuned. This phenomenon breaks through normal oil film and causes bearing damage, IMO the Molybdenum disulfide in the LM Mos2 additive adds additional protection against this with Molybdenum disulfide extremely high shear strength.

Again these are just my opinions gathered from real life experience but I do believe the results speaks for themselves.

Also, I would recommend everyone reading this thread who takes BMW oil recommendations as gospel to consider a few items:

1 - Does BMW have long term ownership in mind with their oil recommendations or is it more of a function of CAFE standards?

2 - BMW to this day recommends never to change your transmission oil, going directly against the recommendations ZF who makes the transmission. Do you consider a company that takes this position to have your long term ownership as one of their top priorities?

3 - A new class action lawsuit (https://www.isleysettlement.com/) was just settled against BMW for the N63TU used in the F15 for oil burning and valve stem seal failure. The S63TU in the F85 uses the exact same valve stem seals as the N63TU. Just as with the E70 n63 class action lawsuit the original s63 was not included, the F85 has been left out of this lawsuit and M owners will be left covering the entire bill when it starts effecting the S63TU. Two class action lawsuits spanning nearly 10 years and two generations of n63/s63 engines, affecting thousands of vehicles, and spread across two platforms. Does BMW's recommended oil for this engine platform play a role in this problem BMW continues to fail to fix?

Just a few things to think about...

[Chilled]

Sophisticated Redneck
I've heard that the Ceretec can turn sludgy if the engine is not run often. I tried to do some googling on this, but could not find any posts. Did see a few question "how much/often do you drive?"

Would MOS2 be in the same category.

The problem is that in the last 2 months, I've probably only driven 100mil in the X. Or driven it like 2/3 times.

[christianfayb]

This has all given me a lot of good info to talk about. I only drive my 50 miles a week. And I do plan to keep the car for another 100k miles. I took my e70 to 160k miles so I'm sure I can do it again.