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09-15-2007, 12:13 AM | #1 |
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BMW says under 35k how about they charge $33700 and be done with it?
BMW seems to be playing a game where they are feeling out the market for how much they can rip their customers off for. On the plus side they recently announced their cap at 35k. That's a good move.
The reality of the situation that consumers must realize though is BMW is a bland car maker in Europe that just happens to be successful. For this reason much like Honda they also get the permission to export their products to foreign markets. In the US we don't have many euro spec cars so their autos totally seem exciting, right? Wrong, once a run-of-the-mill car company, always a run-of-the-mill car company. (They do have a certain flare though and they do make good cars...) In the EU the 1 series sells at being a moderately priced entry level car and is an OK and likable car. In America we haven't seen what BMW is going to do, but I can give you some insight as to what they want to do (because it's painfully obvious, that they are being nervous about pricing and market speculation based on how evasive they seem). BMW as usual wants to sell a successful car to promote their company. They also want to exploit the American population's obsessions with horsepower, and combine that with the BMW name to charge high prices. The point of this post is that I am not seeing their vision at all in that second direction. (M3 yes that's something no one else can ballpark, here no). Firstly BMW has tried a similar formula to this and enacted that second point to varying degrees on all their models and frankly with this effect they become another uninteresting company that has nothing to offer to corner the market. They do their job very well, but they are about as interesting in their result as a public sewage system.. BMW is all about being big, complicated, and for the most part inaccessible to the main consumer as of recent, and that seems against their heritage of providing quality products to all. Of course that quality and things like style are hugely important, but they are not that far off or uncommon these days when you take a pick of the litter. I agree that refinement and sophistication has a price tag, but that price tag is set, and I would appreciate it if it also did not come with consumer exploitation attached to it (but I haven't seen BMW entirely decide on this so I'm not going to feel like their brand is insulting me yet by continuing in their stray from that heritage they have). Anywho, BMW's flare is to have that little extra attention to detail that their competitors don't, and they do not go for a premium in integrating this feature, so besides that which is BMW's brand character, they also have certain major advantages over all others in two classes. These are undoubtedly style and handling (just look at a BMW and then look at a Suzuki for example, equally just drive a BMW and then just drive an Accura) right, let's be conservative and rate that "Refinement and Sophistication" & "Ultimate Driving Machineness" at a nice $5500. Here's why I'm not seeing a 1 series, that's anything but cheep and easily accessible. (which it would nicely fit into being anyway) Let's say you wanted to buy a nice car which is attractive and no slouch when you floor it. for 28k and change you can buy one of their resonable competitors a Premium Retro Mustang GT, I've ridden in them and they can hold their own in terms any daily driving activity (done vigorously or not). In fact I would point out the car would be just as fast as the 1er. So if I can buy a competing product for 5.5k less? Why should I pay that amount or worse MORE for "Ultimate Driving Machineness" & "Refinement and Sophistication", their two big series qualities? I think most people might not agree they should, though there is something to be said about Bimmer Magic. In any case how would you convince that average person that 5.5k is worth it over any other entry level? Then better yet, why should I pay 5.5k more when for the same price, I can get a factory warrantied supercharger (yes you read that correctly), which will have that competitor pushing over 400hp to the ground?? To be honest, brand name means nothing, everyone knows you are in a bottom teir road rocket (from any choice in the 135's class). so taking that into account is a tunned body and a nicer attention to interior detail, better than over 400 hp? I bet that result has you stuck if you have any nerve to call yourself a car enthusiast, and I haven't even started naming MID SIZED cars like the new CTS which are also pushing 300hp yet. So discuss away at my current point I'd be glad to participate, but also realize the further you get away from that magic 33k price point.. the more ridiculous it ends up seeming to actually introduce a car for as much as Bimmer is indicating they might. As they say in Comedy, the joke surrounding that ridicule might just be on THEM (Those Bavarians) and not a 1er fan. |
09-15-2007, 03:20 AM | #4 |
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You've got a lot of speaking points there. The one that sort of sticks out for me (not too flame or anything like that) is the comparison to the Mustang GT. I rented one down in Florida, a 2007, and used to borrow my buddy's 2003 Mustang GT, I also owned a Camaro with a nice bored and stroked 350 in it. So not only did I ride in Mustangs and Camaros, but I drove them, and I can tell you with 100% certainty that you aren't comparing apples to apples here. I like both muscle cars and euros but for completely different reasons.
hp is a simple number, and this premium Mustang GT you rode in may have had a more aggressive suspension set up than mine, but I found the one I drove to be pretty mushy as far as handling goes. Simply put, there is so much more to a car's driving dynamics than its hp. Talk to a lot of BMW drivers and I don't think they're really interested that what the car does when you floor it at a light. And frankly, if we want to talk about who knows how to make and sell cars, BMW and its euro counterparts are fairing far better than the domestic automakers. And regarding your "consumer exploitation" comment, everything is worth what someone is willing to pay for it. Whatever the price of the 1er may be, I won't feel I'm being exploited, because if its too much, I won't buy. |
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09-15-2007, 07:07 AM | #5 |
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Just a couple of quick observations:
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09-15-2007, 07:41 AM | #6 |
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Legion5... I've been to Germany many, many times (just got back on Tuesday), and I can assure you that just because they still offer crank windows on some models, they are viewed as anything but bland over there.
As far as all that other rambling in the post.. you obviously have never driven a BMW for any length of time. I'll tell you what, in order for you to make an informed post, go test drive a 335i (the most comparable car to the 135i right now), then test drive a Mustang GT immediately afterwards. Once you've done that, post your impressions. |
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09-15-2007, 07:58 AM | #7 |
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Garage List 2019 BMW M2 Comp [0.00]
2017 Porsche Macan GTS [8.00] 2011 M3 [10.00] 2013 bmw F25 msport [10.00] 2011 335iS [9.60] |
Can I make a suggestion? Just don't buy a BMW-- buy something else!
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09-15-2007, 09:10 AM | #9 |
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How do you call yoursefl a 1er fan? I just shitted on the whole BMW brand. You proved your point on American lust for HP and this is why Ford and GM are going down the tube. Have you ever heard of the term BALANCE? BMW is proven in this category.
It is clear that you have never driven a BMW and it's ridiculous that you would come to the board and maquerade yourself as a 1-er/BMW fan. Stick with your Mustang bud. Don't say nothing when a 135i smokes your ass. |
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09-15-2007, 09:48 AM | #11 |
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What a bizarre post. Hopefully you don't write for a living. :iono:
Based upon what I can decipher from your rambling daitribe, it sounds like you are already sold on the Mustang. If so, buy one and enjoy it. But before you do so, you might want to heed another poster's advice and test drive a 335i. You might not like the price, but you'll probabaly find that you like the car. Good luck. |
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09-15-2007, 09:56 AM | #12 |
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The Original Poster has already lost all credibility when he compared a 135i to a Cadillac CTS. Yes the Cadillac is pushing 300hp but you forgot to mention it surpasses 4000lbs(says CarandDriver). Before you start spouting off at the keyboard do some research. I was born and bred to love fords but I would never think the mustang and 135i is in the same class. The hard and cheap looking plastics are EVERYWHERE. The mustang is also much bigger. Enjoy your mustang and I'll enjoy my 135i. Happy Saturday.
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09-15-2007, 11:10 AM | #13 |
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I come from a long history of American cars. I have owned Mustang and have driven numerous others. I can tell you with certainty that there is no comparision between the two. I had a 94 Mustang "tuned" and then went to an E46 330i, lets just say the E46 was the better in many ways. I have an E90 now and although I like it alot I am still desiring the E46.
For this reason I am looking hard at the 135i, hoping for the feel of an E46 and the tunability of other cars. I dont like to tune because I can, I tune because it is fun and a passion me and for a lot of people. I am 37 years old and this is Probably part of their stategy at BMW. Yes I could go by an M3 but will reserve when I see the final prices. One thing is that I have enough FF miles to fly to Germany for free so it I can get the 135i for a direct swap of my E90 then I walk away free and clear. |
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09-15-2007, 12:25 PM | #14 | |
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And not on a PlayStation. |
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09-15-2007, 02:52 PM | #17 |
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Actually you can get a pretty good feel for the handling dynamics of several Bimmers (at least in race trim) with the rFactor PC racing sim and its many mods - some have been tested and tuned with the cooperation of professional racers and with a good wheel like the G25 the feel is quite realistic.
There is a fun 1 series mod for rFactor that uses close-to-production specs, and it's a blast to drive. Hopefully they will add the coupe body style and the 135 engine in their next version. |
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09-15-2007, 03:03 PM | #18 |
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the entire post is nonsense. how could you possibly compare a mustang (engine on wheels) vs bmw ( the entire package, best of all worlds)? there in 2 whole different class.
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09-15-2007, 03:23 PM | #19 | |
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I've owned M3s corvettes camaros and many other various American and european cars, you cant compair a mustang to a BMW the whole mentality behind each design is miles apart. its hard to compair any American car to a BMW. American car makers just don't understand the meaning of a balanced package |
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09-15-2007, 04:18 PM | #20 | ||
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Manufacturers are less important than individual models. Especially now a days, There are American cars such as Dodges and Chevy's that have engines plucked from Europe or Japan so the whole situation of advantages ends up being a bit of a mess. I agree with you that handling is a great thing, but do you really believe in your view that it's worth a penny more than having 400 hp? A recent reviewer rated the GT with the dealer installed Ford Handling Pack ($2200) option, as being on par with many euro spec cars. That's near track style performance. Quote:
HYPE however might be something that can take a car and puts it in an entirely higher class, which is a shame because the new bimmer would be a good addition to the mid entry level group. |
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09-15-2007, 04:30 PM | #21 | |
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Admit that at least. I like BMW as much as the next person, I'm not trying to insult them, but this is how the car manufacturer really is. I actually am a fan of comparing real world cars instead of BS statistics and I test drove the 335i and in no way does it compare to a GT, it's a lot like a G35 actually, except sharper and better, more pleasant even and the body control is significantly improved in all senses. Here's the thing though if we are talking about the 335i we're discussing a much much bigger wheel base here (to the 135), and a much higher price tag. You really can't magically replace a 335i with a 135i. If we're talking about the 335i I would be disgusted at myself if I chose a GT over a brand new 335er. However if we make the choice more realistic and pick a GT500 or even a blown GT and a 335i then the decision gets blurred again. (contrary to popular belief Supercarged GT's don't break loose much, take a Saleen for example.) Anyway, I see the advantages of one or the other in the above realistic comparison depending largely on mood and preference rather than excelling in any absolute sense. |
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09-15-2007, 04:52 PM | #22 | |
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Balance is just another type of car configuration Your opinion that I shitted on the entire BMW brand loses credibility when we note that you are from Germany. I'm not trying to dislike BMW at all I'm just pointing out facts, don't take it personally. I'm not shitting on BMW. Ok, I am not a 1series fan. I am a car fan. |
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