Quaife LSD 128i

[clutch128]

I couldn't find a review on this setup so I figured I'd post a review of the Quaife LSD I just got installed on my 2011 128i.

Until I got my 128 I had never done any high performance driving. I know this isn't probably the best track car, but it's been a fun experience over the last three years to take it to the track, find something I don't like, and then attempt to address it.

I realize the 128 isn't a particularly powerful car and a lot of reactions will be why would you need an LSD on a 128? What motivated me with the LSD was tight radius turns at low gearing and high speed exits with the prevalence of power oversteer.

A few examples are the tight 2nd gear turns at California Speedway turn 9 and turn 11 at Laguna Seca. During these exits with DCT on the car becomes violent during the inevitable correction. If the DCT is off it has a prevalence to slip an it just generally feels unstable/sloppy.

For higher speed stuff in exits, where as a newer driver I have a tendency to get on the throttle too much, too early during an early entrance, any power oversteer is very difficult to modulate/control. Exit of turn 6 at California Speedway is a good example, but there are similar setups at Willow/Thunderhill/Chuckwalla I've felt the same way about.

When I got this installed my feeling was I wouldn't notice any difference in street driving and would have to wait till I got to the track and even then was skeptical I'd feel a big change.

But, I'm surprised was a big difference I've felt immediately with this thing. Off the line in 1st and tight radius in 2nd feel much more controlled. I can't even get the DCT to engage. It just feels much more sure footed. I'll have to give an update once I get to the track late Dec here to try it out with significant speeds, but my initial impressions are quite good.

For reference, here's the LSD I had installed
http://www.hpashop.com/Quaife-LSD-BM...e9x-none-M.htm
Normally, I like to do my own work on the car, but this was out of my depth. I had Harold do the install and he did a great job harold@hpautosport.com

[andrey_gta]

Cant wait to hear more of your impressions

That is a good price. I've previously seen only Wavetrak be near that price. I guess prices adjusted...

[P90Puma]

You mean DTC not DCT right?

[clutch128]

Originally Posted by P90Puma

You mean DTC not DCT right?

that's what I get for posting before coffee

[TheSt|G]

Fantastic. Nice to see another 128i with a LSD. I'm heading there eventually myself.

I do want to stress again that all of our units are bolted, and as such the install is much easier than the 135i.

Originally Posted by andrey_gta

Cant wait to hear more of your impressions

That is a good price. I've previously seen only Wavetrak be near that price. I guess prices adjusted...

Given the reputation Quaife has, I can't imagine taking the gamble on Wavetrac to save $100 or so.

[MarkkyyMan]

Originally Posted by TheSt|G

Fantastic. Nice to see another 128i with a LSD. I'm heading there eventually myself.

I do want to stress again that all of our units are bolted, and as such the install is much easier than the 135i.

Given the reputation Quaife has, I can't imagine taking the gamble on Wavetrac to save $100 or so.

I thought all manual transmissions had the ring gear welded to the carrier?

[HP Autosport]

Originally Posted by andrey_gta

Cant wait to hear more of your impressions

That is a good price. I've previously seen only Wavetrak be near that price. I guess prices adjusted...

That is the price of the Quaife only. Don't forget installation.

[Kgolf31]

Originally Posted by HP Autosport

That is the price of the Quaife only. Don't forget installation.

Approx how much/how long is it to throw the LSD into the existing diff? As well, how long is the removal/install of the actual diff?

[HP Autosport]

Originally Posted by Kgolf31

Approx how much/how long is it to throw the LSD into the existing diff? As well, how long is the removal/install of the actual diff?

If the final drive is out, you are looking at 4 hours to install the LSD. R&R of the final drive is another 3 hours.

[TheSt|G]

Originally Posted by MarkkyyMan

I thought all manual transmissions had the ring gear welded to the carrier?

Not on the 128i, which I confirmed with James Bird of Bird's UK(the primary Quaife distributor).

[P90Puma]

I assume the 6MT 128i diff is the same size as the auto 135i diff?

[andrey_gta]

Originally Posted by P90Puma

I assume the 6MT 128i diff is the same size as the auto 135i diff?

I wonder too. I always saw the part# being cross listed in Wavetrack's webpage,maybe even Qailfe

[Kgolf31]

Originally Posted by HP Autosport

If the final drive is out, you are looking at 4 hours to install the LSD. R&R of the final drive is another 3 hours.

Thanks.

I wish I lived closer to CA. I'd have this done in a heartbeat

[HP Autosport]

Originally Posted by Kgolf31

Thanks.

I wish I lived closer to CA. I'd have this done in a heartbeat

You can remove the final drive and send it to us during the winter months.

[Kgolf31]

Originally Posted by HP Autosport

You can remove the final drive and send it to us during the winter months.

Unfortunately the E82 is my DD that sees winter duties. The E86M is the garage queen.

Come a couple years when I decide to do a SCCA STX/NASA TTD build I'll keep you guys in mind and make sure it gets done right.

[TheSt|G]

Originally Posted by andrey_gta

I wonder too. I always saw the part# being cross listed in Wavetrack's webpage,maybe even Qailfe

It's a different part number than the DCT/Manual 135i, but the same as the slush box I believe.

[Bimmer-Bob]

Originally Posted by TheSt|G

Fantastic. Nice to see another 128i with a LSD. I'm heading there eventually myself.

I do want to stress again that all of our units are bolted, and as such the install is much easier than the 135i.

Wow, good to know - will certainly make things a bit easier down the road.

Originally Posted by TheSt|G

Given the reputation Quaife has, I can't imagine taking the gamble on Wavetrac to save $100 or so.

Personally, I think I'm going to hold out for a unit from Performance Gearing, probably with a more aggressive final drive. Plus they come fully assembled. The cost is probably more up front (didn't click the link up top to see what HPA sells 'em for), but install should be easier/cheaper.

[TheSt|G]

Originally Posted by Bimmer-Bob

Wow, good to know - will certainly make things a bit easier down the road.



Personally, I think I'm going to hold out for a unit from Performance Gearing, probably with a more aggressive final drive. Plus they come fully assembled. The cost is probably more up front (didn't click the link up top to see what HPA sells 'em for), but install should be easier/cheaper.

They are about $1000 more than the Quaife it would seem.

It's a bit weird how they talk about the disadvantages of the M Variable lock, but then completely gloss over the fact it is a 0-100% transfer unit when their unit is either fixed, or in a more limited range.

Compared to the Quaife it sounds like a case of where your priorities are. The Performance Gearing unit is a clutch based LSD, which means the unit will be loud and the engagement will be harsh. If you turn it down, the unit will be smoother/quieter, but the slip prevention will dip significantly(as per their specs, street is a fixed 30% instead of the 100% track mode offers). Quaife is near silent from the constant mesh gears.

Clutch based LSDs also generally require significantly more frequent fluid changes to continue to work. I think Carbonetic, for example, specs every 5,000 miles for street use. Clutch based LSDs also need to be rebuilt every 10,000 miles or so generally. Quaife runs on standard Mike Miller fluid change intervals and requires no rebuilding.

That being said, this isn't me condemning Performance Gearing or clutch based LSD units. Clutch LSDs can be set up exactly how you want them; in the rate they engage at, how much slip they allow, and when they engage. In racing that level of control is fantastic.

For a car that sees street use though, or is a primary daily driver, I really believe the Quaife is the logical choice.

I've also never been a fan of more aggressive gearing in BMWs via the final drive.

[corab]

What is your reason for not liking a more aggressive drive ratio through the diff

[TheSt|G]

Originally Posted by corab

What is your reason for not liking a more aggressive drive ratio through the diff

BMW tends to pair final drive ratios with individual gear ratios very well. I also enjoy being able to cruise at high speeds with reasonable RPMs. The speed itself can also be deceiving as while you will accelerate through the gear faster, you will also need to shift more often, slowing you back down. 0-60 for example often becomes a 3 shift affair.

[Bimmer-Bob]

Originally Posted by TheSt|G

They are about $1000 more than the Quaife it would seem.

It's a bit weird how they talk about the disadvantages of the M Variable lock, but then completely gloss over the fact it is a 0-100% transfer unit when their unit is either fixed, or in a more limited range.

Compared to the Quaife it sounds like a case of where your priorities are. The Performance Gearing unit is a clutch based LSD, which means the unit will be loud and the engagement will be harsh. If you turn it down, the unit will be smoother/quieter, but the slip prevention will dip significantly(as per their specs, street is a fixed 30% instead of the 100% track mode offers). Quaife is near silent from the constant mesh gears.

Clutch based LSDs also generally require significantly more frequent fluid changes to continue to work. I think Carbonetic, for example, specs every 5,000 miles for street use. Clutch based LSDs also need to be rebuilt every 10,000 miles or so generally. Quaife runs on standard Mike Miller fluid change intervals and requires no rebuilding.

That being said, this isn't me condemning Performance Gearing or clutch based LSD units. Clutch LSDs can be set up exactly how you want them; in the rate they engage at, how much slip they allow, and when they engage. In racing that level of control is fantastic.

For a car that sees street use though, or is a primary daily driver, I really believe the Quaife is the logical choice.

I've also never been a fan of more aggressive gearing in BMWs via the final drive.

I hadn't really given much thought to the extra maintenance requirement. Truthfully, however, I don't put too many miles on the car (less than 30,000 miles in almost 4 years), so it might not be that big of a deal for me. I'm also thinking about trying to retire the 128i from daily commuter duty, so it may see even fewer miles.

As far as the gearing, I think it will really help with autocross, which is more or less what the car is built for at this point. Sure, I may have to get into 3rd a little more often than I do now, but I'll be crossing the starting lights and coming out of every turn faster. But, I'm probably at least a year away from doing this, so I've got time to mull it over.

[HP Autosport]

Originally Posted by TheSt|G

It's a different part number than the DCT/Manual 135i, but the same as the slush box I believe.

DCT, manual and auto are all different part#'s.